“Recent word from sources close to Motorola confirm that a significant speed bump will be timed for MacWorld Expo in July, raising current bus speeds, and seeing new 7470-based G4s raise frequencies to as high as 1.5Ghz. […] What of the G5? That’s still on course for volume production early next year, in the form of what’s codenamed the 7500. Public Motorola roadmaps describe this as a processor that conforms to the e500 Book E G5 spec, and it’s been rated stable at 2.4GHz internally at Motorola. But to get a handle on this it’s worth paying attention to the internals, as this indicates an important rethink in the Megahertz wars.” Read the report at TheRegister.
Apple Aims to Boost Bandwidth with 1.5 GHz G4s
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSAlert.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Dual 1.5ghz would be ok, but 4×1.5Ghz would be really nice
“Dual 1.5ghz would be ok, but 4×1.5Ghz would be really nice
”
Yeah and you know that system wont come cheap, I can see the dollar signs now he he
^ That would be really expensive, and not worth the price
“…My cousin works at Motorola’s G4 fab in Austin and he said they are pumping out 1.5 or 1.6 GHz chips now for release at MWNY. He said to expect at least a 100 per cent increase in desktop power -> CPU + DDR etc…” From a post made on a private forum by a guy I’d trust if he said sun was coming up in the south not east tomorrow. Topic was something else. Little comment was made about his remark. But it’s still vaporware until it ships.
Isn’t that always the case with Apple? “We’ll have really kewl stuff next year…“
‘Isn’t that always the case with Apple? “We’ll have really kewl stuff next year…”‘
Actually they have really cool stuff right now. Don’t know if you’ve ever used a Mac before or not. But yes I’m sure the will have really cool stuff next year too.
does anyone know anything about the G5 – I want to buy a Mac, like the new iMac, but it seems this new chip is just around the corner, so should I wait?
I have done a little research, and geek.com says something like that the G5 has been cancelled, and if it does come out, it will really be a souped up G4 just named the G5.
Any advice?
Speed: Hmm…in years past yes. Since Jobs returned he mostly say it will and it does. Seems Register is working hard to stir the troops up. Heh. Sounds good me. When I’m finished using /me present mackie (2 X 450) in a couple or three or five years this 1.5GHz wonder will be cheap on eBay.
Actually the Register art is pretty good but the links are better. (and heh, this mozilla rc3 is pretty kewl; am on the mackie and need to get it on linux box; it rocks)
>>does anyone know anything about the G5 – I want to buy a Mac, like the new iMac, but it seems this new chip is just around the corner, so should I wait?<<
Well it depends on what you are looking for… If you wait for the G5 which probably wont see daylight until early 2003, it’s offerings will be what is built around it. RapidIO will be one of the goodies to expect. The EEtimes had an article on the subject about Motorola’s intentions on the new technology.
http://www.eetimes.com/in_focus/embedded_systems/OEG20020117S0086
They want to rid the PCI bottleneck stuff in the near future, and AMD is working on HyperTransport, which the weird thing is that Apple happens to be a member of that consortium. I think once Apple gets up to pace with the PC tech where RAM and system bus architecture is concerned, you will then see a significant difference in performance. I don’t really see Apple (or Motorola) catching Intel/AMD in the clockspeed area, but if Apple can improve the I/O implementation, that will be something I would be more willing to invest into. Apple is trying to kill 2 birds with one stone and trying to not only optimize the hardware to get the most out of it, but also in the software which the new release of Mac OS X dubbed Jaguar will bring.
Last but not least, if the G5 does come out, the iMac wont see it anytime soon, but if you’re not looking for a lot of crunch, then the new iMac should fit your needs quite well. Another tidbit… there is a rumor that Apple will release an SE (Special Edition) of the new iMac, which means more higher CPU clockspeed and bigger HD, so I would at least wait until MWNY 2002 to see what’s to come.
http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/products/story/0,23008,3372760,00.h…
My point is that Apple’s current offerings simply aren’t competitive with the prevailing competition. That was true in the past, and it’s every bit as true today. And the prennial excuse for this is that the good stuff is coming down the pipeline. Well it never arrives.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I don’t buy from companies that have fools for customers.
1.5 GHz? I can put together a 1.5 GHz Athlon system with 4 TB of DDR ECC RAM, 10 TB of ultra SCSI storage, a GeForce 5 Titanium, and a SoundBlaster Pro, with CD-RW, for $33.26, five dollars less if I use an old case and forego the new Stainless steel and gold “rolex” case included in the above thirty three dollar price.
All that AND it will run Linux with Gimp and WinXP and photoshop with just a quick reboot. U mac weenies dont know where its at….BTW, just checked pricewatch, I can add a 24 in TFT to the above system for six dollars, but thats a bit pricey for me an my PC homeys, so well wait for it to come down to five.
Well Apple seems genuinely committed to doing a good job of what they do. Sometimes they screw up, but for the most part they are devoted to their customers.
You can tell simply by looking at an Apple computer that their engineers take pride in their work. You do not see this when you look at the vast majority of PC products. When I look at a Dell or a Compaq I think cheap junk.
It’s true you might be able to buy two pc’s for the price of a Mac. Hell you might even be able to buy three. You could beowulf cluster them altogether, creating a Super-PC that’s 15 times more powerful than the top of the line Mac. But my friend you will have done it all in vain, for in the end you will be left with nothing more than a network of junk PCs.
I can put together a 1.5 GHz Athlon system … for $33.26 … U mac weenies dont know where its at…
but you have to wake up every day to the twisted montrosity that is x86, and neither AMD nor Intel seem to want to change that any time soon.
i’m happy with my new mac, because i didnt have to install unix on it and its really well put together. thats two things you dont get with any PC clones.
>>Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I don’t buy from companies that have fools for customers.<<
The only fool I see here is you!
“but you have to wake up every day to the twisted montrosity that is x86, and neither AMD nor Intel seem to want to change that any time soon”
You my friend are an idiot.
x86 might be old but compatibility is actually worth something and as chips get faster the x86 decode section gets relativly smaller.. at the moment the poor x86 chips cain the “specialised” g4s
The itanium isnt x86 at all.
And the sledgehammer is extended x86.. why? because compatibility is worth something.. a lot actually and the downside is actually really small. Dont give me that risc cisc stuff because u know zip if your about to say that. The AMD athlon has more macro execution unis than the g4.
Glenn
“does anyone know anything about the G5 – I want to buy a Mac, like the new iMac, but it seems this new chip is just around the corner, so should I wait?”
I would go for it now honestly. The G5 isn’t gonna be here tommorow and the iMacs won’t get it for a longer while still. I recently got one of the new iMacs and I’m personally very happy with it. It’s more powerful than my old PC (PIII-600), I can’t be certain by how much (I do encode mp3s almost thrice as fast); but I’m very happy with it. The only downside is the max res of 1024×768; but imo the crispness of an LCD screen makes it worth it.
“I can put together a…”
people need to shut up and stop comparing costom built stuff to a companies prebuilt stuff and complain about prices… ya know what, when you build the supercomputer of yours piece by piece, of course it is cheaper, but you don’t get tech support, you don’t get anyone to blaim the box for crashing on you except yourself, and 90% of the people who buy computers want to buy from a company that is there in 10 years, that they can call, that they can blaim, etc.
you can build your own amd box and say how much cheaper it is to an apple(ignoring that it is much cheaper then a prebuilt intel too) and you don’t get os X.
you don’t get anyone to blaim the box for crashing on you except yourself
Not true, you can always blame microsoft…
“My point is that Apple’s current offerings simply aren’t competitive with the prevailing competition. That was true in the past, and it’s every bit as true today. And the prennial excuse for this is that the good stuff is coming down the pipeline. Well it never arrives.”
I’ve always thought the main excuse was that Macs are cool? That they’re easy and fun to use. My new iMac may have cost $2000, but show me a PC that matches up hardware and software wise. 800mhz G4, 256mb RAM, GeForce 2, 100Gbit ethernet, 56k modem, keyboard (usb hub), mouse(laser), built in 15″ LCD screen, nice speakers, firewire and usb ports, and a DVD-R drive. On the Software side, MacOS X, World Book Encyclopedia, Ottomatic (cute game), Appleworks (office suite), iDVD (DVD authoring software), built in CD writing software (audio and data with Finder and iTunes), iMovie (Video editing), and a bit more including a full suite of unix utilities.
I’m not trying to argue that Macs are inherantly better, but I don’t see how the price is outrageous.
That’s an apt title for your post, Jim Strawberry. You imply that the price of Apple products is justified by alleged quality that’s neither defined or justified. Another phantom trait that’s only discernable by the faithful. Another para-religious sham.
Jim claims that he can “tell simply by looking at an Apple computer that their engineers take pride in their work.” I’ve noticed that Mac-heads say they get most of their information through occult — mind reading, Ouija boards and the like. Curious. Well, even if Jim could read the engineers’ minds, just because they “take pride in their work” doesn’t mean that they’re any good! Prideful attitudes don’t lead to good engineering. The Apple way is one of excessive pride, one of the seven deadly sins, but false pride doesn’t make up for an inferior product.
And make no mistake, Apple products are inferior. My Compaq computer has a solid metal case, for strength and electromagnetic compatibility. It has an ample power supply with serious overload protection. That’s quality that Apple simply doesn’t have. Apple uses cheap, unshielded plastic cases and wimpy power supplies. So Jim Strawberry’s claim is the opposite of how it really is!
Jim Strawberry, why do you say the opposite of what’s true? Why do most, if not all Apple fanatics have this backwards perspective?
matt writes “but you have to wake up every day to the twisted montrosity that is x86, and neither AMD nor Intel seem to want to change that any time soon.
I challenge matt to identify an IA-32 machine in double-blind testing. It can’t be done. Software developers have their platform preferences, although modern development environments really make those biases moot. But in the context of this thread, matt’s calim is pure hooey.
“i’m happy with my new mac, because i didnt have to install unix on it and its really well put together. thats two things you dont get with any PC clones.”
Gee matt, it’s been a whole 15 years since “clone” was relevant! Innuendo aside, the claim is just plain wrong. I don’t have to install “unix” on my PC either. As for build quality, my latest PC was assembled in a first-rate manner. I know because I’m the one who did the work.
Mac-heads: you wouldn’t have to trash talk if you really had a superior product. Your elaborate lies are the product of your own feelings of inferiority.
“I’ve always thought the main excuse was that Macs are cool? That they’re easy and fun to use.”
There are many excuses. Too many excuses. I was dealing with the “wait til next year” excuse. As for “cool”, well ricers think that they’re cool, so what? I happen to think that the “flashy trash” styling is garish. It’s certainly a fashion that will fall out of favor, just like the fruity colors did. I’m not saying that being a slave to fashion is bad. What I’m saying is that it’s purely subjective. Same with “easy and fun”. What you find fun might be really boring for the next guy. And we all know that the easy thing has never been proved. It’s a rumor, nothing more.
“I’m not trying to argue that Macs are inherantly better, but I don’t see how the price is outrageous.”
You’re wise to stay away from the quality myth. As for price, who is claiming it’s outrageous? I’ve long maintained that Apple products are a poor value, but I don’t believe that I’ve called Apple’s pricing “outrageous”. That description applies to Apple’s dishonest marketing practices, but not to the prices, IMHO.
If you do a direct benchmarking of current Mac V’s PCs home made Macs come out looking pretty bad. But thats not the market Apple is chasing so it doesn’t matter. On the other hand if your only concern was performance you wouldn’t consider either x86 or PowerPC.
It seems if you are prepared to spend the money on a Mac you know what you are getting if you are not you do not know what the advantages are -or- they are not relevant to you.
Apple are doing pretty well (which is pretty rare in the PC industry right now) they are now expecting to double their market share:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2005000/2005495.st…
I expect this will happen, Apple are only now emerging from a long transition period and the technology will only get better.
1.5GHz G4s should along with OS, compiler and other changes should Macs pretty competive with current PCs performance wise, once you add all the changes together I can see where the 100% figure comes from.
As for the G5 don’t expect it until next year, if the registers bandwidth figures are correct this thing should give very impressive performance.
G5 Cancelled? er why??? It’s present on both IBM and Motorola roadmaps, Motorola are the worlds biggest embedded CPU maker and IBM have just committed to the Power 5 and 6 (based on similar technology).
Only one curosity though:
Motorola and Apple appear to label the difference between the G4 and G5 rather differently – according to Motorola the G5 includes the 85xx series which sounds suspiciously like the CPUs included in the Xserve…
However the “real” G5 should be a longer pipline and be fully 64 bit, performance wise it should at a guess be in line with the Hammer/Opertron.
This is Rumor. Since when is The reg giving *actual news?
i’m happy with my new mac, because i didnt have to install unix on it and its really well put together. thats two things you dont get with any PC clones.
You could get a x86 PC with Linux, like from Pogo Linux or the likes. Can you get Macs with Linux preinstalled? Linux is something like UNIX anyway.
x86 might be old but compatibility is actually worth something and as chips get faster the x86 decode section gets relativly smaller.. at the moment the poor x86 chips cain the “specialised” g4s
And we wonder why Apple does benchmarks, without any information to replicate the benchmark, nor have any information on what task they use, with a 2.0ghz. Its not even Northwood. *Sigh*.
people need to shut up and stop comparing costom built stuff to a companies prebuilt stuff and complain about prices… ya know what, when you build the supercomputer of yours piece by piece, of course it is cheaper, but you don’t get tech support, you don’t get anyone to blaim the box for crashing on you except yourself, and 90% of the people who buy computers want to buy from a company that is there in 10 years, that they can call, that they can blaim, etc.
Exactly, that is one thing Macs can never give PC users, a chance for them to buy a machine having hardware that suits them. If they want a nice cozy, quite fast, can play a few games etc. machine, they could buy a Duron Morgan-based machine with nForce and so on, while those with a large wallet, and want the fastest PC around can go for a 2.5ghz P4, with RDRAM, GeForce Ti4600, and so on.
Besides, most places I go, I would always see the neighbourhood PC shop that builds your PCs, warranty your PC, fix your PC etc…. If your PC gets spoiled, take it to the shop. If the component spoil is still under warranty period, good for you, you get it free (but you would have to pay a small sum of money for the service).
you can build your own amd box and say how much cheaper it is to an apple(ignoring that it is much cheaper then a prebuilt intel too) and you don’t get os X.
I used OS X for a day…. I don’t find whats so great about the OS. I can do much more on my XP box, XP allows me to theme the OS the way I like it, and web surfing on an XP box 2 years older than a iMac G4 is so much more faster.
Besides, I can custome build a P4 based machine that can give the dual 1ghz G4 PowerMac a run for its money, at the same price
I’ve always thought the main excuse was that Macs are cool? That they’re easy and fun to use. My new iMac may have cost $2000, but show me a PC that matches up hardware and software wise. 800mhz G4, 256mb RAM, GeForce 2, 100Gbit ethernet, 56k modem, keyboard (usb hub), mouse(laser), built in 15″ LCD screen, nice speakers, firewire and usb ports, and a DVD-R drive. On the Software side, MacOS X, World Book Encyclopedia, Ottomatic (cute game), Appleworks (office suite), iDVD (DVD authoring software), built in CD writing software (audio and data with Finder and iTunes), iMovie (Video editing), and a bit more including a full suite of unix utilities.
Firstly, all the hardware, you could buy for PCs (including the Superdrive).
OS X –> In an CNet deathmatch, XP was tied with OS X.
Worldbook –> I reckon that there is a Windows version, as well there is Britanica and Encarta.
Ottomatic –> Well, there a millions of games out there you can’t get for Mac OS.
iDVD –> There are some DVD authoring software for PCs, I never tried any of them, so I can’t make a comparison (I doubt you tried other software besides iDVD, so don’t make a comparison either).
CD writing software –> Does Finder support UDF package writing for CD-RW? WMP’s CD writing is just as easy as iTunes, I tried both. I personally burn my CDs on Linux, as I use it more often.
iMovie –> I know Windows Movie Maker fails in comparison, but then can iMovie rival MGI? Nope. Again, I tried both of them.
I’m not trying to argue that Macs are inherantly better, but I don’t see how the price is outrageous.
It is, when you could do all you said on PCs, except maybe iDVD, but I’m not sure. But I’m sure there are consumer level DVD authoring software.
With Quartz Extreme offloading UI graphics to the video card, more CPU power becomes less important. For average users, they’re going to want a combination of a good video card and QE for “perceived performance.” Early versions of OSX were sluggish and the UI not really snappy unless you had serious hardware. And the average user is going to get a fancy video card for games anyways. They people who are really anxious to see faster G4’s and even the G5, are the graphics pro’s.
I think it’s really silly that Apple and other people – such as journalists and evangelists – view the Mac platform as the premiere platform for graphics and video work. Yet the Mac lacks some fundamental hardware that’s important for that line of duty. I’m surprised the word “bandwidth” did’t hit the headlines sooner. Apple just started using DDR memory. How dare they say the XServe is the first 1U server to use DDR memory. Are they forgetting the first dual Athlon MP mother board from Tyan with the angled DDR slots? They’re angled so that they can fit in a 1U rack. Bandwidth out of the way, there’s the question of CPU power. Is the G4 really as good as they say it is? I think no. And nother area that bugs me is variety in video cards. PCs have several companies making professional 3D video cards. 3D Labs, E & S, and Elsa who makes Quadro cards exclusively for NVidia. Granted that the GeForce 4 chip is just as good as any pro graphics chip, but certain graphics fields need accuracy over performance. The Mac is falling behind in many areas. It’s not because the PC industry is bullying them around, Apple is just slow.
I like the Mac. I just don’t like it when Apple say they are when they aren’t. Apple is feeding their customers too much false or mixed up information and people are eating it up out of Apple’s hands.
“…100Gbit ethernet…”
Yer right dude!
$2000 for a box which contains such a fast card is awesome!
Gee those Apple engineers must be geniuses! Haha!
“The Apple way is one of excessive pride, one of the seven deadly sins, but false pride doesn’t make up for an inferior product.”
That is what the PC clone drones are made of, while the trying to down the Mac because they can’t afford one. Face the facts Speed… Apple’s and its Mac user base is what PC makers dream of, but will never achieve because they under deliver, have nothing innovative to offer and have no clear vision of what consumers really want.
“My Compaq computer has a solid metal case, for strength and electromagnetic compatibility. It has an ample power supply with serious overload protection. That’s quality that Apple simply doesn’t have.”
Compaq happens to be one of the worst PC clone makers in the industry (I know from personal experience). The only thing keeping Compaq in the running is the merger with HP!
The fact is that Apple is the trendsetter in the computing industry, while the others just copy with their cheap frills (maybe with the exception of Dell and IBM). Apple has always been known to place quality over quantity, something Compaq plays the opposite to!
“You’re wise to stay away from the quality myth. As for price, who is claiming it’s outrageous? I’ve long maintained that Apple products are a poor value, but I don’t believe that I’ve called Apple’s pricing “outrageous”. That description applies to Apple’s dishonest marketing practices, but not to the prices, IMHO.”
Too bad you’re a very small vocal minority that will never be a threat to Apple or the Mac user base. You may be an educated, but you with your silly post, it sure makes you look like a fool trying to satisfy your hatred and jealousy of Apple by spreading FUD!
Personally I think we need both the Mac and the PC for better competition. Whether OS X or XP is better really depends on what you’re trying to do and what goals are important. I switched to OS X last year because I was sick of dual booting Linux and Windows for 8 years. I’m a UNIX junkie but also wanted a better UI and more commercial UI applications. For me, OS X is vastly superior to dual booting Windows and Linux. But I can certainly understand why XP is preferable to others. Either way though, the most important thing is for both platforms to thrive so that we can get better competition. Also, comparing the PowerMac to the PC in terms of pricing is not the whole story. As a Mac fan I do agree that the PowerMac is overpriced. However, the iMac and Powerbook for example, are great deals. The other thing I like about Apple is that they push for standards at every turn whereas Microsoft is pushing proprietary standards for most things. Apple says OpenGL, Microsoft says Direct3D, Apple says MP3, Microsoft says WMA, Apple says MPEG-4, Microsoft says WMV, and so on. Apple even bases their entire OS on a standard (UNIX) whereas Windows is proprietary to Microsoft. I’m not comfortable with Microsoft controlling all of the software standards out there and prefer a standards-driven approach. I think the ideal would be PC hardware + OS X + Apple design but unfortunately market economics won’t let that happen. Hopefully the new G4/G5 processors will make the PowerMac more even with the PC hardware side of things.
Yeah, but my point is the price of the software bring fair. By the time you add the cost of the software equivilents – the price isn’t that much different.
NeoWolf, I find it odd that you’re talking about fairness and software prices in the same breath. Surely you aren’t trying to insinuate that Apple is the only company with bundled software! Obviously it’s not fair to stack the deck against the PC by adding retail prices of software that’s included free, and not doing that with the Mac. If you have to cheat to make your product look competitive, then it’s not.
At least the religious kooks are entertaining…
To all the usual people complaining about MAC prices being outrageous.
oh and to whoever tried to compare the quality of the Mac to a Compaq (my solid metal compaq case…)
you should do some research before talkin’ out of yo
A*s.
If you price compare your Majors on the pc side to a high end Mac you get a fairly close Price (+-$500)
(oh and don’t tell me that you get more for your money, that’s a load of Balooney)
Sure on the low end your mac suffers; but the audience is not the same as that who would be satisfied with a low end PC.
Sh’t just the work necesseray to get a Mac makes it a more “Coneisseur” tool.
(you just can get it at the corner store.)
To the silly Metal Case guy.
A G4, has a much much nicer case than your generic metal Compaq system, a case that has won more design and quality Awards than any other PC product.
The price of your Compaq includes a cheap power supply as opposed to the software actuated brownout/surge resistant power supply that comes with every Mac.
No matter how cheap and powerful PC’s might be they just cannot compare to the quality of any Apple product.
That is the one place where the PC just don’t go.
Because commodity hardware is just that A COMMODITY.
if any branded pc can be replaced by any unbranded pc, well that just tell’s you something.
Why is Compaq being swallowed by HP?
Because neither can fight the like of Dell, who basicly goes to the corner electronic store and buys anything on the shelf and put’s together your “ultimate” pc.
What about Sony, they work hard to make their overpriced underperforming PC’ s –by PC standards–
and they are obviously not making a dent in the Dell market share.
Face it folks, PC=Generic.
that is that.
you know like the 80’s Chevy Citizen, or was it the Chevy Celebrity.
Who cares Box on wheels that used as much Gas as it could getting you from point A to B.
sucky. sucky, and how so drone like.
There was some truth to that 1984 commercial.
Freedom is possible.
But only if the Drones want it.
keep droning on, maybe you’ll find your peace in your cubicle.
Dude, I am _not_ an apple-fanatic. I do not, nor have I ever even owned an apple computer. I have however played with them quite a bit at shops or at a friend’s house — and my next computer will most likely be a mac.
You are a troll.
I do not have to read minds to know when someone takes pride in their work. I believe Apple has some very fine engineers — and it shows. The new imac’s moveable lcd display is a good example of a recent Apple innovation. The G4 might be slower but it also runs cooler, consequently Apple’s tend not to have as many noisy turbo fans in them.
I have had four different PC’s. They’re all junk. Everyone one of them. None of them are worth their weight in peanuts. I have experienced nearly every problem imaginable — even in my more expensive machines.
1. Poor power supplies that fail
2. CPU overheating due to poor case airflow and a CPU that somewhat resembles a nuclear reactor.
3. Cheap and failing memory.
4. Crappy software
The list goes on, and on, and on. I think PC’s are garbage, and you can bet if I find a mac made as poorly as a PC I’ll turn around and support a different company before you can blink an eye. Hell, I’ll go back to using my Commodore 64 if I have to.
If this (G 5) would be true how much do we have to pay to get an Apple that is equivalent to a Pentium IV ?
Shit ! Shit !!(sorry)
We only want to get an Operating System (OS X) and a processor that can be as good as P IV and DDRAM…
Can’t tell you enough how many customers/users here in Europe would like to try/change platform; but, simply, Apple is not interested in us as much as we call for its
attention. Go figure !
So I say: “let them f**k themselves and let them keep the Northern American market as a [restricted] Apple users paradise”.
I am not rich enough to pay for a beautifull logo (or not stupid enough :-).
But, if I were, I would buy (mount myself !! if it was a choice) an Apple.
I am inside Western Europe. We can’t get an Aplle for a fair price !!! Can’t understand why not ?
We (a great number of customers/computing persons) would be interested) I can advance this with 100 % sure !!!!
Can’t Apple see what is best for their bussiness ???
(Sorry for so many exclamations, but I mean all of it !!!!!)
So if they were finally to intro something around 2,4 GHZ next year – who cares? By the end of the year, for example AMD will cruise around with 4000+ rated parts. So what this announcement actually says is, that Apple will remain lagging behind x86 as it always used to…
Hey, it’s early in the morning yet and I am lacking the strenght to browse the st00pid comments on how a 800 Moto CPU is “running circles” around a 3 GHz Intel CPU bla-bla… I am sure they have piled up by now, so I’ll come back and have a good laugh later…
That is what the PC clone drones are made of, while the trying to down the Mac because they can’t afford one. Face the facts Speed… Apple’s and its Mac user base is what PC makers dream of, but will never achieve because they under deliver, have nothing innovative to offer and have no clear vision of what consumers really want.
Its not like I can’t afford a Mac, its just that I can get a much better deal on PCs.
Lets see what Apple innovated lately….
– iMovie…. oh wait, they bought that, and Sony had a similar app on their PCs…
– iTunes… they bought that too, took away theming…
– iPhoto…. oh wait, Sony had that for years, Windows XP had photo management before OS X.
– OS X…. an old BSD modernized with engines that use technology licensed/bought from others…
– Hardware… Firewire, I have to give them credit to them for its speed, but then it has higher implementation cost than USB 2.0.
Note: Making your own OS and placing it on your own computers isn’t innovation.
Compaq happens to be one of the worst PC clone makers in the industry (I know from personal experience). The only thing keeping Compaq in the running is the merger with HP!
You seem to have extremely bad luck with Compaq, and have no knowlegde about the merger. I have a Compaq Evo N160, it is the best laptop I ever used. My granduncle has a Presario, he is very happy with it.
And as for the merger, both COmpaq and HP PC division are kept seperate, and the Compaq brand is continued.
Besides, isn’t Compaq the #2 PC manufacturer pre-merger?
(PS: don’t tell me #1 Dell has better quality, don’t kid yourself).
The fact is that Apple is the trendsetter in the computing industry, while the others just copy with their cheap frills (maybe with the exception of Dell and IBM). Apple has always been known to place quality over quantity, something Compaq plays the opposite to!
The only thing recently that Apple had set a trend is non-beige boxes. And consumer video and DVD editing.
Too bad you’re a very small vocal minority that will never be a threat to Apple or the Mac user base. You may be an educated, but you with your silly post, it sure makes you look like a fool trying to satisfy your hatred and jealousy of Apple by spreading FUD!
Actually, I have to agree with him about Apple’s dishonest marketing. For example, the benchmarks on this page ( http://www.apple.com/powermac/processor.html ) is not at all documented.
Believe me, I was once a blind OSS sheep, but once you start rationalizing, you find out how dirty Microsoft, Linux companies, Apple etc. can get in their PR…
Yeah, but my point is the price of the software bring fair. By the time you add the cost of the software equivilents – the price isn’t that much different.
I dunno. Okay, I have tried to count as see the difference. I’m gonna compare with the low end iMac G4, since I know no consumer DVD editing software.
Athlon XP 1500+, with a Asus KT333 (plus Firewire and all), Elsa 32mb GeForce 2 MX200, and so on at $1000, approx (Malaysian street price, mind you, including XP). Now for software, it is approx $200 (MGI, Ulead, stuff like that)(again, Malaysian street OEM price). You save $200 to buy a Palm! But then, just say you have no interest in video editing, remove MGI and save money. If you don’t want MS Works, save some money, and so on (which includes MS Money, BTW). Besides, isn’t it strange, all the iApps you supposely “bought” with an Mac can be downloaded?
use a mac if you’re happy. use a pc if you are happy. it’s like saying someone is stupid for buying a small bmw 3 series at twice the price of a honda civic! come on people. with a civic you get fuel economy, cheap service (sorta), and easy to get parts, plus easy service at practically any car fixit shop. with a bmw, you get quality engine, top class handling, solid build, plus top quality brand. when i see a civic, i always think of cheap japanese cars. when i see a bmw, i think of high quality german cars. i’m happy with my civic now. but i’m saving up right now to get a bmw. i just don’t want to seem like a honda guy, that’s all.
so if you’re complaining that it’s stupid to buy a bmw at $30,000++, then please, just be happy with your honda civic. if it gets you from point A to point B with you pretty much intact, then be happy. putting others down for their choice of car is just plain stupid.
I have to say that I’m a bit concerned by the enthusiasm for a relatively minor upgrade to the Macintosh hardware line. I think its great that they are getting DDR RAM, and improving the hardware to put it *up to par* with the PC competitors. However, unless they start doing something to their high end to put them *above* competitors, I don’t see why Mac users should be dancing in the street. For example, their new systems should run with the DDR RAM at 333MHz, standard, not the 266MHz that most of the PC industry is using. Furthermore, whatever high end machines they release in July, and at the latest January, should be able to beat any other PC in any real world benchmark. This is how to win over stalwart PC users.
That being said, I find it incredible that Apple’s market share is on the rise. OS X and the new iDevices and iMac have caused a renewed interest in the Apple line. I only wonder how much more it would be if their hardware was cutting edge, not middle of the pack.
To the silly Metal Case guy.
A G4, has a much much nicer case than your generic metal Compaq system, a case that has won more design and quality Awards than any other PC product.
TiBook have never won awards for design, same with the newest iBook. Really, you stooped real low to use iMac’s and Cube’s awards… Besides, I assume you are comparing TiBook and Compaq Evo, cause TiBook is the only laptop that has a G4, and Evo is the only Compaq that have a metal case.
The price of your Compaq includes a cheap power supply as opposed to the software actuated brownout/surge resistant power supply that comes with every Mac.
You are still talking about Evo vs. TiBook. I looked at the tech specs of TiBook, nothing of what you have said.
Why is Compaq being swallowed by HP?
Because neither can fight the like of Dell, who basicly goes to the corner electronic store and buys anything on the shelf and put’s together your “ultimate” pc.
Actually, Compaq PCs is the only products that won’t carry the “HP” brandname. The merger to compete with IBM and Sun, not Dell and Gateway. You have obviously read little about the merger.
What about Sony, they work hard to make their overpriced underperforming PC’ s –by PC standards–
and they are obviously not making a dent in the Dell market share.
Because Dell is stealing market share from guys like Gateway, HP etc. Sony is a niche player, even they admit that.
Face it folks, PC=Generic.
that is that.
People always place generic as not good, but cheap. But little that you know, there are hardware you couldn’t get on Macs, like nVidia Q4, used mostly by 3D artist.. and so on. And then, Mac users still can’t accept the fact that currently, PCs can outperform Macs. In fact, even Sony PCs at the same price as Macs are able to outperform Macs.
There was some truth to that 1984 commercial.
Freedom is possible.
But only if the Drones want it.
keep droning on, maybe you’ll find your peace in your cubicle.
Ironically, we drones are getting much more bang for the buck, and could do potentially more with their money. Its not like I’m anti-Apple, I like OS X (everything except Aqua), I like ipod, I like the new iMac etc., but once Apple realize in order to get market share fast, they have to price their wares more competitively.
1. Poor power supplies that fail
Serves you right on buying a cheap PSU. But unlike Mac PSUs, if it fails, and if you have an ATX case, you could buy another, and plug everything in it.
2. CPU overheating due to poor case airflow and a CPU that somewhat resembles a nuclear reactor.
Try covering the holes about the iMac dome.
3. Cheap and failing memory.
Again, cheap memory, why the heck would you buy them? I buy Crucial or Mushkin RAM, or Kingston.
4. Crappy software
Well, then again, hope to Linux, crappy software, hope to Mac, crappy software, buy a second hand BeBox, crappy software, buy a classic Amiga, crappy software. Really, you didn’t mention what software is crappy, and what you use it for…
We only want to get an Operating System (OS X) and a processor that can be as good as P IV and DDRAM…
May seem like a nitpicker here, but Pentium IV is Pentium 4. They have stop using roman numerals, why Apple started using them. Secondly, there isn’t any such thing as DDRAM. It is Double Data Rate Synchronized Dynamic Random Access memory. A little history, DRAM gave birth to SDRAM which gave birth to DDR SDRAM. Plus, right now, for the best performance, RDRAM is used with P4s..
I am not rich enough to pay for a beautifull logo (or not stupid enough :-).
Neither do I. But if money wasn’t a problem, I would buy that 1GHz PowerMac G4 with a GeForce Ti (no no no, spare me the MX). And of course, a hold no bares Pentium 4 machine, with everything nice (which would cost about twice the PowerMac’s price, but have 4x the enjoyment :-). Why? I’m extremely interested in Obj. C and Cocoa (yup, I’m a poor geek).
I am inside Western Europe. We can’t get an Aplle for a fair price !!! Can’t understand why not ?
I live in Malaysia. Malaysia is closer to Taiwan, I don’t understand why the prices of Macs here is so expensive. Even after taxes on *retail* American price, it shouldn’t be that high. Microsoft is worse in this field. I buy MS apps from USA (through a relative, that’s the joy of getting a family of mostly refugees :-).
Can’t Apple see what is best for their bussiness ???
Apple have been aggresively targeting niches like video (which they captured themselves), 2D graphics, print, education and stuff like that. Now, they are betting on te Digital Hub thingy. Microsoft was late to this “digital hub” thingy, but they were late in the Internet scene and so on, yup, I think they can get it. Since their Microsoft Home plan seems more grander than Apples.
Eugenia (spelling?), I’m new here, why is it that post come out late?
>>Its not like I can’t afford a Mac, its just that I can get a much better deal on PCs.
Lets see what Apple innovated lately….<<
Doesn’t bother me if Apple buys and innovates it further, while making it better (though it would have been nice to have kept SoundJam around, and you can skin iTunes these days)! Microsoft buys software companies as well, Visio being one of their many takeovers, and the sad part is the software still sucks (I have to use it, so I know first hand)!
>>OS X…. an old BSD modernized with engines that use technology licensed/bought from others…<<
Yeah speaking of old technology in operating systems… I guess you’re going to tell me that XP is new technology (NT) right? Think again, helk I’ll even give you a link to read up on that tells the whole NT story, in which XP is based:
http://www.win2000mag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=4494&pg=1
Compaq hasn’t done anything innovative since they reverse engineered the original PC to develop the first clone and started this whole PC clone wave!
>>You seem to have extremely bad luck with Compaq, and have no knowlegde about the merger. I have a Compaq Evo N160, it is the best laptop I ever used. My granduncle has a Presario, he is very happy with it.<<
Yeah and I have a mother who also has a Compaq Presario and she isn’t happy with her computer, and I was stuck using a Compaq DeskPros at work for 2 years before getting my first laptop. The only thing worth a dime at Compaq is the Alpha technology they got from the takeover of DEC, and they’re letting that go to waste (which is sad)!
>>Actually, I have to agree with him about Apple’s dishonest marketing. For example, the benchmarks on this page ( http://www.apple.com/powermac/processor.html ) is not at all documented.<<
No way those benchmarks are so true… JUST KIDDING Actually I agree with you here, I think those benchmarks are way out of this world and far from reality. But I don’t get wrapped up in that particular reality distortion field. Apple needs to show more information than just a bunch of pretty graphs!
>>I dunno. Okay, I have tried to count as see the difference. I’m gonna compare with the low end iMac G4, since I know no consumer DVD editing software.<<
Actually from real comparisons to other PC manufacturers including all similar specs, you wont find a PC cheaper than maybe around $100-200 depending on who you are comparing. Plenty of tech sites made those comparisons and came to the same conclusion. It even took Popular Science to compare a $3400 Sony Vaio to an $1800 iMac G4… of course the Vaio won in the end, but as far as the Mac faithful was concerned, this was a compliment when you look at what they were comparing:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/computers/article/0,12543,230272,00.ht…
I have to say I quite liked that Sony Vaio for what it had in it. Sony I guess I should have mentioned earlier maybe, I think they do some really great stuff. I am even looking into their Clie’ PDA with the built-in MP3 player, but I’ll wait a little bit longer I think!
Well, the latest crop of personal insults and bizarre claims clearly falls into the category of outright lies, and is beneath answering directly. seabass and Jim Strawberry are hell-bent on being rude to people and fabricating lies in what is nothing more than a smear campaign. They aren’t even trying to speak to the issue, so why should I waste my time on them?
I can use the same tactics too. Apple products suck, and that’s all there is to it. Case closed. I win, they lose. (Because I’m a gentleman, I will not stoop to the verbal assaults that these two have done.)
There, all done. That’s so much more reasonable than wasting time on points! Of course they’re still welcome to try to back up their claims, but everybody here knows that there’s zreo chance that they will. So let’s move on.
Damn, same old story.
People doing the “I can save a couple hundred bucks by buying a PC” thing.
BFD. There are tradeoffs for everything.
Choosing to buy a Mac really bothers some folk as speed (troll extrodinair).
I’ve tried to make these as similar as possible, in order to make a fair comparison. Feel free to point out any weaknesses in the comparison or make your own.
Apple Dual G4
1GHz – DP PowerPC G4
512MB SDRAM – 1 DIMM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Apple SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX dual
56K internal modem
Apple Pro Keyboard – U.S. English
Mac OS – U.S. English
Mitsubishi 17″ monitor
AppleCare Protection Plan (APP) (3yrs/support)
Apple Pro Speakers
——————————
$3,536.00
Dell Dimension 4400
Pentium(R) 4 Processor at 2.0GHz 512K L2 Cache
512MB DDR SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year At-Home Service
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition
17 in (15.9 in viewable,.27dp) E771 Monitor
64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200 Graphics Card with DVI
24x/10x/40x CD-RW Drive with Roxio’s Easy CD Creator(R)
New Harman Kardon(R) HK-206 Speakers
56K Telephony Modem for Windows(R) XP
10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
—————————————————–
$ 1,557.00
x86 might be old but compatibility is actually worth something and as chips get faster the x86 decode section gets relativly smaller.. at the moment the poor x86 chips cain the “specialised” g4s
the x86 ISA is not bad, thats not what i was complaining about. its the whole architecture… anything that still boots into “real mode” and has a dedicated I/O space is obsolete, in this day and age.
as for compatibility, all the programs i needed on my previous system i have just recompiled for OS X. it works because it is (near enough) unix.
x86 is faster and cheaper, is more superscalar, etc… but anyone who has tried to code low-level code on these things either loathes it or loves the black art-ness of it.
PS: and its silicon size is HUGE. i needs lots of power and it gets very hot.
itanium isnt x86, but have you got one? will anyone have one on the desktop soon?
I don’t have to install “unix” on my PC either. As for build quality, my latest PC was assembled in a first-rate manner. I know because I’m the one who did the work.
thats a matter or personal preference, i like unix because i can carry with me my development environment and custom scripts like moving comfortable furniture into a new house. my CURRENT PC, i have one of those as well, was assembled by me and its very good, i dont disagree! but when i try and write drivers for the odd windows peripherals i get i just get frustrated by the unnecessary legacy of x86 (I/O space, special registers, high cost of entering kernel mode, etc…).
PS: did you assemble your laptop yourself?
Mac-heads: you wouldn’t have to trash talk if you really had a superior product. Your elaborate lies are the product of your own feelings of inferiority.
i’m not a mac-head, i bought my first ever mac two weeks ago (previously i had mostly PCs) and i’m very impressed. if you like you can put this down to “new computer syndrome”
if anyone wants to continue this discussion i have (uncharacteristically) put my email on this post…
Yeah, this has gotten way out of hand.
I think some dude had it right when he said if you like PC buy PC and if you like Mac buy Mac. This is why we have a choice right? It’s just two differing philosophies, neither of which really affects the other in a negative manner, so why spend all our time bitching about it?
Both the PC & the Mac have their own strengths, however I am somewhat concerned about those who are only here to spread lies or nonsense. In the future maybe we should try and restrict our posts to constructive critisism.
A computer is a computer, and a beer is a beer,
Give em both to me and you’ll have something to fear.
Mmmmm, beer equals good.
it’s like believing in Copland.
I’ll believe it when i c it
About UNIX: My point there was that the claims I was answering were bogus. Personally I prefer Linux, although I have worked with SCO UNIX and Solaris on the PC. Currently I do all of my Solaris work on SPARC boxes, and SCO has fallen by the wayside (for me — the product is still sold by Caldera).
And no, I don’t assemble my laptop myself. I don’t even own a laptop.
“the x86 ISA is not bad, thats not what i was complaining about. its the whole architecture… anything that still boots into “real mode” and has a dedicated I/O space is obsolete, in this day and age.”
Yeah, but real mode is gone, gone, gone when you boot into a modern OS. My car has a spare tire; that doesn’t mean that I have to use it. And pretty much every modern CPU and OS uses some form of dedicated I/O, be it memory mapped, hardware ports, IRQ etc. It may look different, but it’s there.
About Mac-heads: Nobody is calling you a Mac-head, although you did respond to what I addressed to Mac-heads.
I’ll chalk it up to a misunderstanding. No harm, no foul.
And now some things related to other people’s posts:
About NT’s origins: NT was designed by the same principal person who designed the original VAX/VMS. Naturally this person hired some people who also worked on VMS. Naturally the team that worked on NT did some things the same way they did with VMS. VMS is a very highly regarded operating system that’s still quite popular in serious mission-critical applications like medicine and finance, where uptime is crucial. But NT is no more VMS than a Fiat Spider is a Ferrari just because the bodies were designed by the same company. Notice how Mac-heads always attack Microsoft out of the blue when their claims fail. Microsoft’s OS software has no bearing on Apple’s hardware, and that is the topic. Notice how Mac-heads are always wrong. At least I can squeeze some lemonade out of that lemon!
“Compaq hasn’t done anything innovative since they reverse engineered the original PC to develop the first clone and started this whole PC clone wave!”
Well, lessee…Compaq released the first 386 PC, using their own architecture. And the industry followed Compaq, not IBM. So a modern PC “clone” (nobody cals them that, except for Mac-heads who constantly relive the long-gone days when Apple was on top) is a Compaq clone. That’s very innovative!
>>Naturally the team that worked on NT did some things the same way they did with VMS. VMS is a very highly regarded operating system that’s still quite popular in serious mission-critical applications like medicine and finance, where uptime is crucial.<<
Hmmm, something we can agree on. VMS was quite indeed a fine operating system and was great mission-critical applications, though Solaris has taken over that realm mostly these days!
>>But NT is no more VMS than a Fiat Spider is a Ferrari just because the bodies were designed by the same company.<<
I agree again, NT was a cheap knockoff of VMS, but will never sustain that engineering prowess that was VMS! We have a VMS/NT software engineer that I work with that said though VMS and NT shared similar design concepts, NT was missing the most important element… ‘Reliability’! I wasn’t exposed to NT until getting my job here in Europe 3 years ago, and I was not that impressed to say the least!
>>So a modern PC “clone” (nobody cals them that, except for Mac-heads who constantly relive the long-gone days when Apple was on top) is a Compaq clone. That’s very innovative!<<
If you say so he he
It’s funny that I have never seen anyone call the AMD Opteron vapourware yet everyone insists on calling the G5 vapourware. Yet both chips are due at much the same time.
It’s not as if IBM and Motorola are small companies or have never produced CPUs before…
Neither have given publically any peformance details on the CPUs but they have info on roadmaps:
G5 (From Motorola Roadmap)
Extensible Architecture
New Pipeline
New Bus Topology / RapidIO Interconnect Architecture
32 & 64 bit products.
Symmertric processing capabilities.
0.13um process with SOI initial G5 product
800MHz to 2GHz +
Nothing radicle there at all, Motorola already have PowerPC products based on 0.13um and RapidIO with SMP.
64Bit may be new to x86 but the 64bit PowerPC620 was shipped years ago (allbeit 4 years late and in very small numbers).
As for the registers figures they seem pretty fair as well. A longer pipeline will boost clock speed siginiicantly as will 0.13 um SOI.
2.4GHz does not sound excessive. AMD have not quoted clockspeeds, only giving estimated performance ratings.
Increasing the bandwidth is also a good move, the Alpha guys did this years ago. It doesn’t matter jack what your top clockspeed is if your CPU speeds it’s time waiting for data. I’ve seen this in benchmarks of overclocked CPUs – A lower clocked CPU with a higher bus speed will actually beat the higher clocked CPU.
This is evolutionary technology, nothing radiclly new from an new unknown company, the only thing we don’t know is performance, for that we will have to wait.
‘rajan r’ posted;
>>TiBook have never won awards for design, same with the newest iBook. Really, you stooped real low to use iMac’s and Cube’s awards… Besides, I assume you are comparing TiBook and Compaq Evo, cause TiBook is the only laptop that has a G4, and Evo is the only Compaq that have a metal case.<<
Actually Apple has just won a few major awards for the following:
iPod
iBook
Powerbook G4 Titanium
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=4699
Actually there’s a surprising number of old VAXen still in production all over the place. I know the medical uses the best, and know of plenty of VMS systems running MUMPS, with no plans to change platforms. And from what I hear from the service guys, a lot of banks run VMS too.
I don’t think it’s fair to call NT a “knockoff” of VMS. NT was designed from the start to be a Windows environment, whereas VMS was and still is primarily a terminal-based OS. NT was designed for client/server applications on a network, while VMS was designed for serial connections. Even today, client/server apps for VMS are rare. At lower levels, the differences are even more conspicuous. VMS never used a hardware abstraction layer, for instance. NT was designed from the start to be platform independent, like UNIX. So NT has the HAL, and is written primarily in C, unlike VMS.
I could go on and on, but you ought to get the idea from that synopsis.
Apples are wonderful and I wish i could afford one, but PCs are more power for less price…..
Brand New Top o’the line Mac = $6,000(customized)
Brand New Top o’the line PC(from almost all sellers) = $2,600
considering that the PCs are also alot more powerful than the Macs, the onje your gonna get if your on a budget is clear…
Doesn’t bother me if Apple buys and innovates it further, while making it better (though it would have been nice to have kept SoundJam around, and you can skin iTunes these days)! Microsoft buys software companies as well, Visio being one of their many takeovers, and the sad part is the software still sucks (I have to use it, so I know first hand)!
iTunes is a Applelized version of SOundJam. Even Visio had more innovation, albeit very very little innovation. :-D.
Anyway, the only problem I have with Microsoft is its Windows 9x series, which sucks. 16bit code and 32bit code don’t mix. It been 2 years already using Win2k (and recently XP), its terrible using 9x again.
Compaq hasn’t done anything innovative since they reverse engineered the original PC to develop the first clone and started this whole PC clone wave!
/me hits his forehead. Who said Compaq innovated? You said Microsoft innovated?
Yeah and I have a mother who also has a Compaq Presario and she isn’t happy with her computer, and I was stuck using a Compaq DeskPros at work for 2 years before getting my first laptop. The only thing worth a dime at Compaq is the Alpha technology they got from the takeover of DEC, and they’re letting that go to waste (which is sad)!
Actually, Compaq sold Alpha to Intel, and now the new HP uses Itanium. Though it would be quite some time till Itanium can get rid of the Alpha speed legacy.
Actually from real comparisons to other PC manufacturers including all similar specs, you wont find a PC cheaper than maybe around $100-200 depending on who you are comparing. Plenty of tech sites made those comparisons and came to the same conclusion. It even took Popular Science to compare a $3400 Sony Vaio to an $1800 iMac G4… of course the Vaio won in the end, but as far as the Mac faithful was concerned, this was a compliment when you look at what they were comparing:
I read this like a month ago, its a terrible benchmark. And I mean terrible…. But you gotta amid, that Vaoi look better than a PowerMac, no?
Sony and Apple is going down the same road, high prices, look good, and a bundle of software.
I have to say I quite liked that Sony Vaio for what it had in it. Sony I guess I should have mentioned earlier maybe, I think they do some really great stuff. I am even looking into their Clie’ PDA with the built-in MP3 player, but I’ll wait a little bit longer I think!
Yeah, Clie have bragging rights, its cool, no use to me :-). Well, I’m a 16 year old geek, why would I need a PDA? Its not like I forget appointments… its not like i have appointments. And my brain can remember all important phone numbers.
I’ve tried to make these as similar as possible, in order to make a fair comparison. Feel free to point out any weaknesses in the comparison or make your own.
But you don’t have dual CPUs, you aren’t using the most high end CPUs, and you could buy a Superdrive for PC
PS: and its silicon size is HUGE. i needs lots of power and it gets very hot.
I notice heat is going down lately…
itanium isnt x86, but have you got one? will anyone have one on the desktop soon?
Intel made it for servers to compete and get the server market. But you complain earlier that Intel and AMD are going only for x86, you didn’t mention in what product line. Heck, even AMD is coming out with a MIPS embedded processor (so something like that).
PS: did you assemble your laptop yourself?
Not many would do that… lappies haven’t made it allow built-it-yourselfs…
It’s funny that I have never seen anyone call the AMD Opteron vapourware yet everyone insists on calling the G5 vapourware. Yet both chips are due at much the same time.
Because we don’t read it at the The Register. We see it at trade shows, we see proper benchmarks, we see analysis, we see AMD guns talking about it. But I haven’t see G5 in tradeshows, never saw proper benchmakrs, never saw official analysis, never heard Motorola and Apple top guns braging about it, but we saw the little people emailing The Register.
2.4GHz does not sound excessive. AMD have not quoted clockspeeds, only giving estimated performance ratings.
Except that the roadmap begins at 800mhz, meaning 800mhz come out first, the last would be 2.4ghz or higher. If they release 2ghz processors now… wow, we would be ready for G6.
Increasing the bandwidth is also a good move, the Alpha guys did this years ago. It doesn’t matter jack what your top clockspeed is if your CPU speeds it’s time waiting for data. I’ve seen this in benchmarks of overclocked CPUs – A lower clocked CPU with a higher bus speed will actually beat the higher clocked CPU.
This is just a rumour, nontheless. Notice how it doesn’t say that on the roadmap? Anyway, if the rumours are correct, they would be having a 333mhz FSB with DDR PC-2100…. while Intel and AMD plan to have faster ones…
>>iTunes is a Applelized version of SOundJam.<<
That is why I brought up SoundJam being it is now iTunes, I liked SJ a lot, but I guess Apple figured there wasn’t room enough for 2 in this world. Of course there is always Audion, but it has never appealed to me that much!
I disagree that Mac hardware is a higher quality than PCs. You say the power supplies in Compaqs are sub-standard and the Mac are all equiped with high quality PSUs. Well that’s fine and dandy, but what the hell is wrong with the modems in Macs? I still rely on dial-up, and the modem in my iMac is just sloppy. It has a hard time holding a connection for longer than 5 minutes. I had to resurrect my PC and turn it into a router because my POP3 email clients don’t work through a proxy.
And what about the whole “Dead pixels” issue with Apple LCD monitors. Apparently, if you have an Apple LCD monitor and notice a little blank dot on it that won’t go away, that particular area of te screen is damaged and fails to light up. Apple tells you to go suck it, they won’t replace it. At least with cheap PC components it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to replace something if it fails.
>>You say the power supplies in Compaqs are sub-standard and the Mac are all equiped with high quality PSUs. Well that’s fine and dandy, but what the hell is wrong with the modems in Macs?<<
I am not sure about your problem with the modem, I never had that sort of problem when I was still using dialup internet. My friend and colleague also has a Mac and he is using dialup still and hasn’t complained of any problems and he usually keeps me up-to-date on his Mac use. Maybe you have a dud modem, (like the Honda saying) you might have the one and a million iMac?!
You left out a few things…. the G4 has a Superdrive, the Dell you mentioned only had a CD burner. The G4 has a Level 3 Cache which significantly adds performance. The G4 has gigabit ethernet if I’m not mistaken.
In every day tasks, a high end PC can beat out a G4, however programs that utilize the Altivec engine can stay competitive and beat out the PC. The Photoshop tests are probably true, but it’s made to make Apple look the best. Photoshop is probably one of the most omptimized programs made for Mac OS 9/X. Web Browsing on IE in OS X currently is a little slow, although the problem lessens when you load up on RAM. However if I use Omniweb or Chimera as a browser on my G4 700mhz iMac, I can’t tell much of a difference between the load speeds with a PIII 800mhz Gateway Tower. Purposely or not, Microsoft does not try very hard to make a good browser for the Mac. But don’t hold that against Apple without trying out other browsers.
I really wish that Apple would allow people to build their
own machines, and take the profit on the OS sales. Unfortunately, this ain’t going to happen. Allowing people to make their own machines would force them to let clone makers enter the market. They did this before, and it forced the company to the brink almost. Do you think IBM got a lot for opening up their PC to competition? Not really… Right now, they make hardly any money from making PCs. Thinkpads maybe, but not much. Allowing open competition in the PC market is great for consumers, but it does no good for the company. Right now, as much as people would like to think otherwise, there is little money being made in the PC Market. Compaq used to, but even they made most of their money from enterprise. Yeah, HP didn’t want to merge with Comaq for the PC market, b/c there is no profit in it. Dell is very efficient, squeezing out a little extra on each PC and then reaping the profits on scale, but most others are having problems. There isn’t anything really wrong with other PC makers, they just can’t differentiate enough. Anyone who took Econ 101 know that in perfect competition, where products are hardly differentiable, profits equal zero in the long run. You see this in PC industry. What makes one better than the other, when you have the same components in each machine? Not much, other than the track record of the company. Anyone with the time and the know how, builds their own PCs b/c it’s pointless to have PC makers charge for just putting the parts together in a box. This system doesn’t diminish the product, but it’s squeezing out companies. The only way for a company to survive is to deferentiate itself. Competing on price in the long run will squeeze profits to virtually nothing.
You can buy the store brand of soda for 35c a can, but Pepsi and Coke sell for 75c. Why? B/c through advertising and other methods, they have differentiated themselves. Apple charges more, but is able to be very profitable b/c they offer something different. Whether or not it’s better or not we can argue till the end of time, but we have to admit that some people are always going to find the experience better to them. Not everyone will be this way. People seeking something different, are willing to pay a little or a lot more for Apple products. Obviously the vast majority of people don’t care about finding a different user experience and look for bank for their buck, and see legitimate arguments that they can more performance for less money. But there is, and will probably be always be a market for an alternative.
Does any posting about Apple or Microsoft have to end up like this? I understand that each of us invest a lot of money into our computers, and when someone attacks our choice we get defensive. But seriously, does it really affect you that much if someone likes one platform more than another?
It’s kind of late, so I doubt I was very clear, but whatever.
G5 (From Motorola Roadmap)
Extensible Architecture
New Pipeline
New Bus Topology / RapidIO Interconnect Architecture
32 & 64 bit products.
Symmertric processing capabilities.
0.13um process with SOI initial G5 product
800MHz to 2GHz +
you can read about Hammer at http://www.anandtech.com, http://www.amdzone.com, http://www.tomshardware.com
where can you read about G5?
only in rumors!
I mean we can figure there will be a chip after the G4. It’s exact stats are hard to know for sure. But wouldn’t it make sense to call the thing a G5. Basing on the G3 to G4 time table, we should have this already. However, the G3 was originally only supposed to be a consumer chip if I’m not mistaken, so there was a bigger impetus to get a higher performance chip out there.
>>where can you read about G5?<<
http://www.eetimes.com/in_focus/embedded_systems/OEG20020117S0086
http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20010522S0055
No there is tech sites covering it, you just need to know where to look!
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20011115S0052
http://www.macworld.com/2000/01/news/motorola.html
enjoy
My car has a spare tire; that doesn’t mean that I have to use it.
you do if you get a flat
but a more appropriate analogy is a choke (ugh… remember them?) and x86 machines are like those really old cars that run on 4-star and still have a choke… maybe even a crank handle…
And pretty much every modern CPU and OS uses some form of dedicated I/O, be it memory mapped, hardware ports, IRQ etc. It may look different, but it’s there.
memory-mapped I/O is so much nicer than dedicated ports because you can perform access checking in the pager but after that the user application can use the memory area as much as it likes. basically its a microkernel issue.
About Mac-heads: Nobody is calling you a Mac-head, although you did respond to what I addressed to Mac-heads.
I’ll chalk it up to a misunderstanding. No harm, no foul.
ah, just a misunderstanding. i dont mind you calling me a mac-head, but i’m really more of a MIPS-head. unfortunately nobody makes MIPS laptops any more…
but what the hell is wrong with the modems in Macs?
IIRC theyre software based. hence inherently inferior to hardware modems. if they miss an interrupt due to high cpu load, etc, they can drop the whole connection.
PS: come on guys, we can reach the big 100 comments!
Most of the information on the sites you gave came from an announmynous source. AMD have passed out prototypes of Hammers, they have showed it in public and so on, while Motorola and Apple keep their mouths shut. they only way we would know that G5 is coming out and how good it is, is when it comes out.
Rajan:
“TiBook have never won awards for design, same with the newest iBook. Really, you stooped real low to use iMac’s and Cube’s awards… Besides, I assume you are comparing TiBook and Compaq Evo, cause TiBook is the only laptop that has a G4, and Evo is the only Compaq that have a metal case.”
BS…
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0205/23.awards.php
“Apple has won the Plastics Industry Award for its excellence in design, as well as Design and Art Direction (D&AD) awards.
Apple’s iBook and PowerBook G4 Titanium took Silver awards. No other company has received such consistent recognition from the society.”
http://news.zdnet.de/story/0,,t101-s2106539,00.html
(german) Apple recieved Gold for both iBook and Powerbook in the Design Awards of the International Design Forum
http://www.maccustomise.com/news/archive/2001/july/week3/powerbooki…
“The PowerBook G4 earned a Gold Industrial Design Excellence Award, given by the Industrial Designers Society of America and sponsored by BusinessWeek.”
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_26/art01_26/photoes…
..and that’s just the first few links from a Google query!
Inform yourself – THEN talk! Otherwise you’re making a fool of yourself, like you constantly do!
“The only thing recently that Apple had set a trend is non-beige boxes. And consumer video and DVD editing.”
Well – that’s a good result! 8) About 3000% more innovation than M$ has produced in its whole 25 years!
Does your fancy $1000 “iMac-Killer” Athlon feature a TFT? I don’t think so! How can you compare a beige box with max. a CRT to a thing like the iMac? That’s not even Apples and Oranges anymore, that’s Apples and Pizza!
btw: Who did Apple buy iMovie from?
And yeah, iMovie2 and iDVD can *not* be downloaded! That’s another piece of plain BS from your side!
..And people really DO wonder why we’re so p*ssed off at the likes of cleverd*ck people like you and often react accordingly! That’s the most funny part!
“About NT’s origins: NT was designed by the same principal person who designed the original VAX/VMS. Naturally this person hired some people who also worked on VMS. Naturally the team that worked on NT did some things the same way they did with VMS. VMS is a very highly regarded operating system that’s still quite popular in serious mission-critical applications like medicine and finance, where uptime is crucial.”
..and BSD is not!? <:-) ROTFL! That’s funny, try telling M$ that, they’re still using it on most of their Online services! Oh my, the jolly reasoning!
“But NT is no more VMS than a Fiat Spider is a Ferrari just because the bodies were designed by the same company.”
Here’s some lecture for you: Cutler & his boys were ALREADY working on the Successor to VMS when they were still at Digital! They took that over with them to M$ and made NT out of it! NT is the direct successor of VMS and your Fiat/Ferrari comparison is just way out of line!
Go read it all up in “Barbarians led by Bill Gates”, written by Marlis Eller, a guy who should know (he wrote GDI for M$ and quite a few other things!)
“Notice how Mac-heads always attack Microsoft out of the blue when their claims fail.”
Notice how the Troll Extraordinaire fails to realize the claim came from his side originally (Rajan’s claim!)
Rajan claimed, CattBeMac revoked the claim by pointing towards XP, there’s the whole story, easily summed up for you to grasp!
“Microsoft’s OS software has no bearing on Apple’s hardware, and that is the topic. Notice how Mac-heads are always wrong. At least I can squeeze some lemonade out of that lemon!”
You’re so desperately flamebaiting, i’ve hardly ever seen anyone trying so hard, and i’ve met *a lot* of you guys!
Congratulations for having no better thing to waste your time on!
How any threads about Apple errupts into a flamefest of PC v. Mac…
“And make no mistake, Apple products are inferior. My Compaq computer has a solid metal case, for strength and electromagnetic compatibility. It has an ample power supply with serious overload protection. That’s quality that Apple simply doesn’t have. Apple uses cheap, unshielded plastic cases and wimpy power supplies.”
Actually, Apple’s cases are sheilded. Since when does a power supply mean anything? – the need for outrageous power supplies on the x86 front is driven by processors that use/waste 5x the power as a G4.
The awards you are showing is about creativity and originality. Well, PC clones copy Mac. Then extend its ideas. They look better. But no originality. Thats why no awards. Sorry for making a stupid cliam :p.
Does your fancy $1000 “iMac-Killer” Athlon feature a TFT? I don’t think so! How can you compare a beige box with max. a CRT to a thing like the iMac? That’s not even Apples and Oranges anymore, that’s Apples and Pizza!
Okay, what makes you so sure that it doesn’t have a TFT? 15″ LG 15105. Making quick claims and putting words in my mouth, no? It cost US$1100 on Malaysian street price, and would cost much less at America. An iMac G4, lowest end, cost US$1500 here, BTW. It has a Lian-Li case that looks pretty cool. It goes with the silver LCD screen.
Actually, Apple’s cases are sheilded. Since when does a power supply mean anything? – the need for outrageous power supplies on the x86 front is driven by processors that use/waste 5x the power as a G4.
I don’t know about in comparison with x86, but I have been in forums where they claim that Motorola makes the most power hungry PowerPC chip in the world… But then again, I made no comparison with x86. Maybe someone else should do it :-D.
Nice lecture on economics. Timely, too.
One thing to note about Dell is that they took a risk to improve efficiency. Whereas some other vendors were sitting around whining about placement of their little boutiques in computer stores, Dell took a bold step and rid itself of the whole brick and mortar legacy, selling 100% over the Internet or by phone. In a segment with razor-thin margins, Dell found a way to boost efficiency and to offer every customer a custom built machine. My hat’s off to them!
As far as store brands go, IME they have earned a bad reputation which has nothing to do with marketing. Just about every parent or newly-emancipated youth with a budget has tried the store brand in order to save money, and most go back to the big names because they really do taste better. However there are some “no name” brands that are quite good.
But that doesn’t mean by analogy that Apple’s products are better. In fact they’re not. The exception does not disprove the rule. For every one PC manufacturer making junk there are dozens making a good product. To condemn the entire industry based on a single anecdotal account is to lie. OTOH, it’s lunacy to believe that Apple and Apple alone has some magical quality that no other company on earth can attain. The Big Lie.
Apple puts its money in marketing, not engineering. They cling to obsolete technologies in true reactionary fashion, and use the Big Lie to pretend that they’re not backwards. Apple stooges will blather on and on, telling Big Lies about just about everything. But the bottom line is that Apple’s products are continually behind in the race. When (if — Motorola’s not well) the so-called “G5” arrives, it will not be competitive with whatever Intel or AMD has to offer at the time.
Yeah one of the links was old (the one with the MacWorld) I meant to post the recent story they had posted, but accidently got the wrong link.
sorry
>>How any threads about Apple errupts into a flamefest of PC v. Mac…<<
These threads usually get the most hits, like Eugenia said before, she is reaping all the benefits with the hit numbers… you blame her for that!
I guess the other popular flamefest would be AMD verses Intel debate.
“Apple puts its money in marketing, not engineering. They cling to obsolete technologies in true reactionary fashion, and use the Big Lie to pretend that they’re not backwards.” etc.etc. ad nauseum.
Who has doubts that speed is a mac afficionado ? LOL.
>>It’s funny that I have never seen anyone call the AMD Opteron
>>vapourware yet everyone insists on calling the G5 vapourware.
>>Yet both chips are due at much the same time.
>Because we don’t read it at the The Register. We see it at trade shows,
>we see proper benchmarks, we see analysis, we see AMD guns
>talking about it. But I haven’t see G5 in tradeshows, never saw
>proper benchmakrs, never saw official analysis, never heard Motorola
>and Apple top guns braging about it, but we saw the little people
>emailing The Register.
Just because it has been kept quiet does not mean it is “vapor”.
My point is this is an evolutionary CPU from one of (if not the) worlds biggest CPU makers. (embedded outnumber PCs 50 to 1).
>>2.4GHz does not sound excessive. AMD have not quoted clockspeeds
>> only giving estimated performance ratings.
>Except that the roadmap begins at 800mhz, meaning 800mhz come
>out first, the last would be 2.4ghz or higher. If they release 2ghz
>processors now… wow, we would be ready for G6.
You’re thinking in PC terms – Motorola make embedded chips.
800Mhz will likely be a lower voltage (and thus lower power) version.
>Increasing the bandwidth is also a good move, the Alpha guys did this
>years ago. It doesn’t matter jack what your top clockspeed is if your
>CPU speeds it’s time waiting for data. I’ve seen this in benchmarks
>of overclocked CPUs – A lower clocked CPU with a higher bus speed
>will actually beat the higher clocked CPU.
>This is just a rumour, nontheless. Notice how it doesn’t say that on
>the roadmap? Anyway, if the rumours are correct, they would be having
>a 333mhz FSB with DDR PC-2100…. while Intel and AMD plan to have >faster ones…
AMD plan to have a dual 333MHz interface on the top Opteron model whiich being a server chip will likely be very expensive.
Motorola already have a 333MHz DDR in product on their web site.
It does have RapidIO on the roadmap and if you read CatBeMacs quoted articles it explains what RapidIO is for – to increase bandwidth.
————
>Apple puts its money in marketing, not engineering.
Every company has to do marketing, otherwise they’d die.
Thats life, get over it.
Some do this more than others, Apple is probably one of the least offenders with Microsoft being one of the worst. If Apple put all their money into marketing they wouldn’t be able to produce products like the iMac.
>They cling to obsolete technologies in true reactionary fashion, and
>use the Big Lie to pretend that they’re not backwards.
>Apple stooges will blather on and on, telling Big Lies about just
>about everything.
I am a stooge for no one, I do not possess a Mac. But if you want to talk about obsolete technologies why does a PC still have Parallel and serial ports while Apple ripped them off quite some time ago? Apple has done more for PC innovation than probably any other company in the last 20 years.
http://www.mackido.com/Innovation/
This was true when Steve Jobs was at Next as well, their hardware was ahead of everyone.
Even when I was an Apple hater (well sort of, I was an Amiga nut) I couldn’t help but notice that Apple continually poured out new ideas.
>But the bottom line is that Apple’s products are continually behind in
>the race.
Untrue, they’ve only been behind with the G4, the G3 was ahead of Intel in it’s day.
>When (if — Motorola’s not well)
But IBM is fine and IBM also happen to make G4s for Apple.
>the so-called “G5” arrives, it will not be competitive with whatever
>Intel or AMD has to offer at the time.
See answer above, this can -and do- change, The Athlon may be competitive with Intel but the K6 was not, Intel was kicking AMDs arse only a couple of years ago and AMD was bleeding red ink.
In 2 or 3 months time I’d like to see some proper benchmarks of the next upgrade to the G4, I think we will see competitive spped Apple products long before the G5 arrives.
Every company has to do marketing, otherwise they’d die.
Thats life, get over it.
I don’t have to buy a worthless product just because it’s marketed.
That’s life, get over it.
My point is that Apple’s products are weak because they spend way too much on marketing and way too little on making a saleable product. You don’t have to lie to market. A good product sells itself. Apple could make a good product if someone would wrestle the budget away from their hype department.
Some do this more than others, Apple is probably one of the least offenders with Microsoft being one of the worst.
Speed’s Razor says that you’re bashing Microsoft (an off-topic evasion) because you can’t say anything to acquit Apple. “So and so’s doing it” doesn’t excuse your company’s actions. As for who does more, well…I don’t see any figures from you. Methinks you’re just making it up as you go.
I am a stooge for no one, I do not possess a Mac.
LOL…It’s funny when I make references to certain groups, and certain people react so strongly in denial. Your unsolicited denial is tantamount to a confession.
But if you want to talk about obsolete technologies why does a PC still have Parallel and serial ports while Apple ripped them off quite some time ago?
A lack of features is not a feature. Other manufacturers have found a way to bring both the old and the new at a reasonable price. Apple has stripped its machines down to the bone, giving less features and worse performance. And Macs still cost more.
Apple has done more for PC innovation than probably any other company in the last 20 years.
Another empty boast. Why couldn’t you mention even a single ferinstance?
You’ll have to do better than linking to the Mac Kiddo. That’s one website that’s notorious for being devoid of fact. Obviously I’m not going to go down that long list, crediting the real inventors of the technology that Apple borrowed, but I will mention that Intel invented USB, and even Mr. Every has to admit that. Including something that hit the mass market two years prior is about as far from innovation as you can get!
This was true when Steve Jobs was at Next as well, their hardware was ahead of everyone.
Aside form snazzy styling, the NeXT boxes weren’t much to brag about in comparison to other UNIX workstations in the same price range. You do remember that they were hideously expensive, don’t you?
Even when I was an Apple hater (well sort of, I was an Amiga nut) I couldn’t help but notice that Apple continually poured out new ideas.
So you’re a nut and a hater. And you say they go hand-in-hand. Do tell. You’ve gone from one dogma to another when your first god died. Big deal. six of one, half a dozen of the other…
Untrue, they’ve only been behind with the G4, the G3 was ahead of Intel in it’s day.
You play revisionist history with me, you lose. First of all, I was IS director in a shop that bought a whole lot of G3 Macs, so I know first hand that your claim is bogus. Second, comparison tests by Byte magazine and others showed the PC being the clear winner. Try again.
But IBM is fine and IBM also happen to make G4s for Apple.
No. IBM quit that deal years ago. If Motorola goes tits-up, Apple will have to go begging.
See answer above, this can -and do- change, The Athlon may be competitive with Intel but the K6 was not, Intel was kicking AMDs arse only a couple of years ago and AMD was bleeding red ink.
First of all you’re evading what I said by changing the subject. Second, as an owner of a K6 box, I know that you’re trying to pull the wool over my eyes even in that! Apple’s systems can’t keep up with contemporary PCs, period.
In 2 or 3 months time I’d like to see some proper benchmarks of the next upgrade to the G4, I think we will see competitive spped Apple products long before the G5 arrives.
Promises, promises. Not worth a cent! I’ve heard that same old line many times before. It never comes true.
>>My point is that Apple’s products are weak because they spend way too much on marketing and way too little on making a saleable product. You don’t have to lie to market. A good product sells itself. Apple could make a good product if someone would wrestle the budget away from their hype department.<<
You must be getting confused with Microsoft again. Unfortunately Apple spends a lot more money on R&D than marketing and even Mac users complain about this very fact saying that Apple needs to reveal itself to the comsumer world even more. We all know Microsoft is the most powerful marketing firm in the world, of course there is nothing wrong with that…. they have been successful because of it.
>>Speed’s Razor says that you’re bashing Microsoft (an off-topic evasion) because you can’t say anything to acquit Apple. “So and so’s doing it” doesn’t excuse your company’s actions. As for who does more, well…I don’t see any figures from you. Methinks you’re just making it up as you go.<<
Well I say your bashing Apple and have already been labeled by a few others here as nothing but a troll that speaks in riddles and airs no facts only FUD!
>>A lack of features is not a feature. Other manufacturers have found a way to bring both the old and the new at a reasonable price. Apple has stripped its machines down to the bone, giving less features and worse performance. And Macs still cost more.<<
Yeah they still deliver on the ‘mostly old’ features as Nicholas Blanchford pointed out. The floppy, serial, parallel and PS/2 are all pretty much useless extras these days, and it took Apple to say ‘Lets move forward, shall we!”. In fact Intel has said it will not support some of the mentioned above by the beginning of next year, namely the floppy!
>>Another empty boast. Why couldn’t you mention even a single ferinstance?<<
That is why he gave you a link so you could read for yourself! Oh I forgot, it’s a Mac site… they must lie if Apple lies, right?!
>>You play revisionist history with me, you lose. First of all, I was IS director in a shop that bought a whole lot of G3 Macs, so I know first hand that your claim is bogus. Second, comparison tests by Byte magazine and others showed the PC being the clear winner. Try again.<<
You can be whatever you want, but reality is that the G3 was a better performer than the Pentium IIs and IIIs at the same clock speed and slightly above, I deal with that reality even today with those worthless Compaq DeskPros stacked up on our control center sporting those PIIs and PIIIs. And you name one website ‘Byte’ and I guess they have the last say, but of course this is ‘Speed’ we’re talking to here, he is right and everyone else in the world is wrong (including the whole computing industry)!
>>No. IBM quit that deal years ago. If Motorola goes tits-up, Apple will have to go begging.<<
You need to research before embarrassing yourself, IBM still delivers G3s to Apple for the iBook and G3 iMac and will be delivering G3s for new Amigas this fall! IBM also delivers PowerPC chips to Nintendo for the GameCube (there are others as well)!
Here is a link to help you see more clearly:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/
>>First of all you’re evading what I said by changing the subject. Second, as an owner of a K6 box, I know that you’re trying to pull the wool over my eyes even in that! Apple’s systems can’t keep up with contemporary PCs, period.<<
I hope you’re not bragging about how great the K6 is are you? Because that happens to be the same crappy CPU that underpowers my mother’s Compaq Presario! Face it, AMD didn’t get it right until the K7 Athlon was born!
>>Promises, promises. Not worth a cent! I’ve heard that same old line many times before. It never comes true.<<
It came true before, and it will come true again!
Bottomline here Speed is that Apple has the most dedicated userbase on the planet, you can deny that all you want, but it wont change the course of reality! You’re also forgetting that a lot of Mac users we’re once PC users, it’s not like they never have used or seen a PC before and have experienced its greatness and/or flaws!
Wow, thats deep sea trolling…
Theres not enough hours in the day to answer that lot.
If you are going to insunuate that I am a liar (I have an Athlon running BeOS FYI) I’ll not bother.
Now I know how Jim Strawberry feels…
We all know Microsoft is the most powerful marketing firm in the world…
Why it’s the old appeal to ignorance! No, you lose. Microsoft is a software company.
Well I say your [sic] bashing Apple and have already been labeled by a few others here as nothing but a troll that speaks in riddles and airs no facts only FUD!
Sore losers call me names, big deal. Name calling doesn’t make you right! I’ve given you ample opportunity to make your point, and you constantly fail to do so.
The floppy, serial, parallel and PS/2 are all pretty much useless extras these days…
Nope, they work just fine. Next…
…and it took Apple to say ‘Lets move forward, shall we!”.
LOL! Yeah, Apple said “let’s move” two whole years after everybody else left Apple in their dust.
Oh I forgot, it’s a Mac site… they must lie if Apple lies, right?!
No, I’m well familiar with David Every’s site. Now obviously I’m not going to get baited into debunking all of Every’s lies, because most of them aren’t germane to this topic. Speaking of that: Apple products are a lot slower than PCs.
The G3 was a better performer than the Pentium IIs and IIIs at the same clock speed and slightly above
So you’re saying that a G3 Mac can compete with a PC that’s several years older. Big deal.
…those worthless Compaq DeskPros stacked up on our control center sporting those PIIs and PIIIs.
Give them to me. I’ll turn them into worthwhile computers for school kids. The only thing making tohse computers worthless is their deployment as a monument to someone’s stupidity.
And you name one website ‘Byte’ and I guess they have the last say…
Your main problem is that all you do is guess! Byte ran a test, and I reported the results. If it’s that important to you, get off your lazy behind and conduct some tests of your own. You have the hardware…
…but of course this is ‘Speed’ we’re talking to here, he is right and everyone else in the world is wrong (including the whole computing industry)!
Ah, I’m part of the computer industry. So it’s really you (and the others in that 5%) telling the whole world that up is down, north is south, black is white etc. Sorry to tell you, but you’re the deviant minority member.
You need to research before embarrassing yourself, IBM still delivers G3s…
But we aren’t talking about G3s, now are we! IBM produces no 7500 (G4) chips, and has no plans to produce the G5. Speaking of embarrassing yourself…you just stuck your foot in deep!
Bottomline here Speed is that Apple has the most dedicated userbase on the planet, you can deny that all you want, but it wont change the course of reality!
I know, you have the reality distortion field for that. What you don’t know is that the RDF only works on nitwits. Guess what?
What are you trying to prove in this and the other Mac threads?
I think we get it, you hate Apple with a passion.
otherwise, we wouldn’t be debating senseless about something that wouldn’t change the world. If there is someone that is winning, it is the web site owner, more clicks, more ads.
>>Why it’s the old appeal to ignorance! No, you lose. Microsoft is a software company.<<
So sarcasm doesn’t fit in your vocabulary? Maybe I should have said something more like this to fit your approval “Microsoft has the most powerful marketing firm in the world!”
You satisfied?
>>Sore losers call me names, big deal. Name calling doesn’t make you right! I’ve given you ample opportunity to make your point, and you constantly fail to do so.<<
Oh so now you call us losers, we were liars, but now we’ve fallen to losers on your little scale! The only point (or points) you have made here end with ‘less’!
>>Speaking of that: Apple products are a lot slower than PCs.<<
Only apparent in the last 6 months and not on all benchmarks!
>>So you’re saying that a G3 Mac can compete with a PC that’s several years older. Big deal.<<
Sad excuse, they’re not much older… maybe a year older than my G3 Mac and share similar specs. But wait a minute, didn’t you just say PCs are faster?
>>Give them to me. I’ll turn them into worthwhile computers for school kids. The only thing making tohse computers worthless is their deployment as a monument to someone’s stupidity.<<
Sorry, I can’t do that… we still use them for checking email (and maybe for some other stuff, I have a laptop now… so I don’t touch those machines very often)!
>>Your main problem is that all you do is guess! Byte ran a test, and I reported the results. If it’s that important to you, get off your lazy behind and conduct some tests of your own. You have the hardware…<<
Like I said, you named one site out of a million! There have been millions of benchmarks been done here or there, how do you decide which ones are correct?!
>>Ah, I’m part of the computer industry. So it’s really you (and the others in that 5%) telling the whole world that up is down, north is south, black is white etc. Sorry to tell you, but you’re the deviant minority member.<<
What 5% are you talking about? Mac, Sun and/or etc… don’t forget I work in this industry, so my fingers are on everything!
>>But we aren’t talking about G3s, now are we! IBM produces no 7500 (G4) chips, and has no plans to produce the G5. Speaking of embarrassing yourself…you just stuck your foot in deep!<<
I never mentioned G4s in my post, you have me confused with someone else. You specifically stated the following…
>>No. IBM quit that deal years ago. If Motorola goes tits-up, Apple will have to go begging.<<
IBM currently builds PowerPC chips right now for Apple. So your FUD is incorrect! IBM also has stated that there is more life left in the G3, though they are pursuing the design of a G4 with their own SIMD unit, even though IBM does not like to stack extras on CPUs as they have stated in the past!
>>I know, you have the reality distortion field for that. What you don’t know is that the RDF only works on nitwits. Guess what?<<
Yeah and unfortunately that RDF affects the whole spectrum in the computing industry! And I guess that you’re the sore loser since you resorted to name calling as well!
You really appear to hate Macs with something of a passion.
Did you once like Macs?
You should be in politics or suchlike they way you twist arguments:
You complained that Apple use obsolete technology.
I countered with the point that Apple have removed the older Parallel and serial ports.
You countered with this was stripping to bare bones. (Hardly – Apple replaced Parallel and Serial with USB and ADB before it).
CatBeMac countered by confirming what I said.
You then countered by saying Parallel and serial work fine – the complete opposite of your original argument!
As for Macs being slower and more expensive than the competition, that is not a debate, no one is doubting those two points. As to why they are slow and more expensive is another matter but even those have been done to death.
Every CPU, Platform, OS has it’s good and bad points. One size does not fit all, debating the differences can be an interesting anf fun waste of time but you seem to be on a crusade against the Mac, out to rid the world of it’s evil!
Why???
You just like arguing don’t you!
—
On a side note:
CatBeMac, you do know your URL is resolving to:
“speed.planet.nl” !!!
Which part of nl BTW?
>>On a side note:
CatBeMac, you do know your URL is resolving to:
“speed.planet.nl” !!!<<
D’OH!!!
>>otherwise, we wouldn’t be debating senseless about something that wouldn’t change the world. If there is someone that is winning, it is the web site owner, more clicks, more ads.<<
And that is why Eugenia loves us
>>Which part of nl BTW?<<
The Hague!
>>Which part of nl BTW?<<
>
>The Hague!
Ik woon in Amsterdam… and thats about all the Dutch I speak…
Hey I have a friend coming from the US to visit, we’ll be up your way to see an Admirals game on the 8th of June… you
interested?
Ik spreken en betcha Nederlands, is niet zo goed… het is heel slecht!
http://www.pcworld.com
quote ”
AMD’s Mui would not comment on specifications of the Opteron processors the company plans to use in the four-way server demo, including the chips’ clock speed, saying the company would release more information the first day of the show.
Opteron is the brand name AMD gave to the server and workstation versions of its upcoming 64-bit processor line, formerly known by the code name Hammer.
The Opteron demonstration at Computex will be the first time AMD has publicly shown the chip running in a four-processor configuration. In April, it demonstrated a dual-Opteron server running a developmental 64-bit version of Microsoft’s Windows XP operating system. When Opteron ships next year, the chips will be available in systems with up to eight processors.
In addition to the four-way Opteron demo, AMD also plans to unveil a motherboard for the Opteron, Mui says.”
oh i forget, we are talking about Apple’s G5. I have a link of a public demo of it somewhere…….
I have one (20% off thanks to my developer discount). Ahhhh…
Some of us appreciate – and pay for – style and elegance. Plus, 1920 x 1200 in a wide-screen format is great too…
This debate will never end, so taking part in it is the ultimate waste of time. In fact, I’ve now wasted 20 seconds, but at least I got to gloat a little.
How about making software that doesn’t need 3 GHz?
>>How about making software that doesn’t need 3 GHz?<<
You’ll only find that on Amiga
oh i forget, we are talking about Apple’s G5. I have a link of a public demo of it somewhere…….
I remembered none. There wasn’t any G5 demon. If there is, maybe it is in embedded usage… Opteron isn’t for embedded. Come on, they have press releases, public demos, independent reviews and benchmarks and so on, did G5 have any of that? Nope. Apple never have a public demo on their stuff unless they have a pretty good darn reason (like OS X and getting developers to it).
But its way too early for AMD to say “Hey look, here’s the complete specs of our processor. If we are wrong, I guess you would sue us”. There wasn’t any rumours about Opteron. The last one was Microsoft supporting it. But that rumour was founded on AMD demo on its dual-Slegdehammer running custom Windows .NET Server, made for x86-64.
I wouldn’t call things like Mac OS X 10.2 an rumour, cause there was a demo in a quite public place, and a lot of people saw it, and many are using it. So face it, it is vapourware until it is release. There’s nothing wrong there. If G5 does come out anytime soon, you can point fingers to use and say “See, the rumours was true.” Live with it.
At the end of the day just buy what you want. Who really cares.
They are only computers – if you’re that concerned you really need to get a life
>I wouldn’t call things like Mac OS X 10.2 an rumour, cause there was a
>demo in a quite public place, and a lot of people saw it, and many are using
>it. So face it, it is vapourware until it is release. There’s nothing wrong there.
>If G5 does come out anytime soon, you can point fingers to use and say
>”See, the rumours was true.” Live with it.
It wasn’t that long ago that AMD announced the Opteron and showed one off.
However there were rumours (some true, some not) long, long before it was ever announced.
Despite the fact there were no specs, no showings no nothing no one referred to it as vaporware. Intel have never addmitted to the existence of Yahmill, it may never be released, yet it’s never been called vapor either.
Motorola do the same thing and yet it’s vapour? One rule for the PC and another rule for the Motorola, that was my complaint and still is.
Want some vapor? Have a look at IBMs roadmap, there is a 5th generation PowerPC core called the 750 with, get this: Mulitple cores and SIMD capability (read Altivec). If thats what Apple is sitting on I think the PC world is in for a shock…
As for IBM not making G4s, if anyone had actually read the articles you’d have seen IBM announcing an agreement to make them.
However the point I was trying to make was that if Motorola were to go down (something I would seriously doubt) Apple can shift to another source, AMD would also be a potential source since thay have the same process as Motorola – which was in turn licensed off IBM…
>At the end of the day just buy what you want. Who really cares.
>
>They are only computers – if you’re that concerned you really need to
>get a life
Naa, too expensive
Actually I’m just trying to get this discussion to 100 posts!
—
CattBeMac:
Maybe
email me.
>>Actually I’m just trying to get this discussion to 100 posts!<<
Here is #96
I’ll email ya soon!
It wasn’t that long ago that AMD announced the Opteron and showed one off.
However there were rumours (some true, some not) long, long before it was ever announced.
During that times, I considered Hammer a vaporware. But then, AMD gave out much more that Apple/Motorola in terms of Hammer – the x86-64 spec.
Despite the fact there were no specs, no showings no nothing no one referred to it as vaporware. Intel have never addmitted to the existence of Yahmill, it may never be released, yet it’s never been called vapor either.
I think its vapor. I don’t think Yamhill would be the answer for x86-64 and Opteron, there isn’t any information from an crediable source at this moment.
Besides, half the rumours of McKinley never came around true…
Motorola do the same thing and yet it’s vapour? One rule for the PC and another rule for the Motorola, that was my complaint and still is.
The information given by Motorola, Apple (if any) and IBM doesn’t even show that all the rumours were correct. No release dates (not even “Ending of XXX year,” or “X Quarter” or anything like that).
Want some vapor? Have a look at IBMs roadmap, there is a 5th generation PowerPC core called the 750 with, get this: Mulitple cores and SIMD capability (read Altivec). If thats what Apple is sitting on I think the PC world is in for a shock…
Nothing at any of IBM non-restricted site prove much of the rumours were correct. Really, I would like to see this G5 shown. Because when Hammer was still being rumoured, it promised this and that, I didn’t believe it. Right now, the only marvouls of it is x86-64, SOI and 0.13micron…. Please, people said when G4 was unveiled, the PC world is in for a shock. Instead, they gain 1% of Apple’s world market share…
However the point I was trying to make was that if Motorola were to go down (something I would seriously doubt) Apple can shift to another source, AMD would also be a potential source since thay have the same process as Motorola – which was in turn licensed off IBM…
Motorola has been talking of selling its microprocessor unit. The three most likely parties to buy it is IBM, AMD and Apple. If you ask me, Apple won’t have a chance, AMD would take patented tech and paste it inside their processors. IBM may build processors for Apple, but I think they might be more interested in making Power 4 processors for servers, they make better money
Actually I’m just trying to get this discussion to 100 posts!
That explains a lot… so, in three more post, you stop the bullshit?
>During that times, I considered Hammer a vaporware. But then, AMD
>gave out much more that Apple/Motorola in terms of Hammer – the
>x86-64 spec.
I believe you will find information on the Book E spec on Motorolas site.
As for PPC64, IBM have not only info but patches for the Linux kernel!
>Please, people said when G4 was unveiled, the PC world is in for
>a shock. Instead, they gain 1% of Apple’s world market share…
I for one was never that impressed with the G4, I remember thinking that it didn’t have much headroom when it first came out …and indeed it didn’t, they’ve already had to increase the pipeline.
>Motorola has been talking of selling its microprocessor unit. The three
>most likely parties to buy it is IBM, AMD and Apple. If you ask me,
>Apple won’t have a chance,AMD would take patented tech and paste
>it inside their processors.
AMD likely already have access to those patents (big companies tend to have cross-patent deals, apparently the software industry hasn’t figured this out yet).
If Motorola was to sell up IBM and AMD would be interested for the customers. Apple, not sure they have over $4Bn in the bank but I don’t think that would cover it and even then chips are not their main business (although they do work on them).
>IBM may build processors for Apple, but I think they might be more >interested in making Power 4 processors for servers, they make
>better money
Sure, but they don’t sell in big enough numbers to keep a large Fab busy and at $2 Bn each they need to be kept busy 100% of the time. IBM make lots of embedded PowerPC chips and are also the worlds biggest ASIC supplier. Running cutting edge Fabs is a very expensive business as DEC found to their cost (sold theirs to Intel) and later so did AMD (IIRC Motorola now half owns the Dresden plant).
>That explains a lot… so, in three more post, you stop the bullshit?
LOL, you just agreed with me!
I never said G5 wasn’t vapor, I just pointed out that the word is used very selectively.
Indeed Rumors don’t alsways come true – Both Motorola and AMD have talked about multicore CPUs before now and not delivered.
As for the Register, the G5 rumours they posted at Christmas appear to sound much more like faster G4s, we’ll find out in a couple of months – hopefully.
>>Nothing at any of IBM non-restricted site prove much of the rumours were correct. Really, I would like to see this G5 shown. Because when Hammer was still being rumoured, it promised this and that, I didn’t believe it. Right now, the only marvouls of it is x86-64, SOI and 0.13micron…. Please, people said when G4 was unveiled, the PC world is in for a shock. Instead, they gain 1% of Apple’s world market share…<<
He is correct on IBM wanting to tout their own new G4 with their own SIMD unit, though there was speculation that they would license Altivec off of Motorola. There should be information on their website about this in the OEM/microelectronics area. I’ll look it up myself again to see where I was reading on it. It’s been awhile since I cam across that info.
As for Apple’s marketshare, though it’s on the rise, I don’t think it will be some overnight success and most Mac users rather just see Apple get anywhere between 5-10% of the market (enough to be happy) and not be a bigger blip on the radar screen for computer vandals (better known as hackers) and other such nonsense. Weird concept, but it has worked so far!
>As for Apple’s marketshare, though it’s on the rise, I don’t think it will be
>some overnight success and most Mac users users rather just see Apple
>get anywhere between 5-10% of the market (enough to be happy) and
>not be a bigger blip on the radar screen for computer vandals (better known
>as hackers) and other such nonsense. Weird concept, but it has worked
>so far!
Reminds me of the time a BeoS user sugested that someone write a virus killer. The responce went “shouldn’t someone first write a virus?”
Macs or any other system will never be 100% clear of virii but the fact MS software tends to be so buggy does leave it open for many more attacks than any other platform. OpenBSDs way of dealing with security (and thus virii) is to proactively clean up their code so it is as bug free, i.e. they assume there are bugs so they go looking for them. This is completely different way from the rest of the industry who work on the principle that something is bug free until
a bug is found.
The fact OS X is in part based on a BSD should ensure a better level of security. That does not mean however it will be immune by any means however.
BeOS is not immune either BTW.