When a brand new John Deere tractors breaks down, you need a computer to fix it. When a John Deere tractor manufactured in 1979 breaks down, you can repair it yourself or buy another old John Deere tractor. Farming equipment—like televisions, cars, and even toothbrushes—now often comes saddled with a computer. That computer often comes with digital rights management software that can make simple repairs an expensive pain in the ass. As reported by the Minnesota StarTribune, Farmers have figured out a way around the problem—buying tractors manufactured 40 years ago, before the computers took over.
I wonder if we’ll ever reach that state with computers – a point where they become so locked-down, unrepairable and impossible to fix that we will be forced to keep older hardware around just to retain control over our own devices.
We are already at that point you just don’t realize it yet… you have to go back to something like AMD Piledriver to get a CPU without ME or PSP.
All RYF certified notebooks are based on quite old hardware due to these problems.
On Intel you need to go back to Pentium 4. You might be OK with a Core 2 Duo on a 945-series chipset (the earliest chipset I’ve found with drivers for Management Engine is 965-series, but I’m not certain it does not exist in earlier chipsets).
Quote: “I wonder if we’ll … be forced to keep older hardware around just to retain control over our own devices.”
Haven’t you ever read the Apple products EULA? They do not belong to you, you’re renting them. You do NOT own devices anymore.
I still have my 1982 DAtsun Maxima
Thom Holerda,
Some consider it tin foil hattery, but this is something I am extremely concerned about. Yet no matter what I do to personally protest this corporate control over every aspect of our lives and property, like boycotting and voting with my wallet, I nevertheless find it becoming worse as time continues because the economy is driven by the masses who remain naive and are indoctrinated with a blind faith in pure capitalism, combined with a naive view that all public regulation is evil, leading to us being increasingly locked into corporate control. There’s so much FUD about “big brother” taking over our lives, which might be justified sometimes, but unfortunately many people are too stupid to realize how corporations are taking over the role of big brother and how their votes against government actually end up impeding the government’s ability to regulate the very corporations taking away our personal freedoms.
I actually think the “right to repair” is popular among the public and most would strongly favor telling these companies to go shove their repair restrictions. In a democracy this is a ridiculously easy fix, we could just make repairing a legal right and the problem would go away. But western democratic countries are loosing at democracy, which has quietly been replaced with corporatocracy. Although corruption has always been a problem, the brazen glee with which modern politicians get away with trashing individual rights over corporations, the environment, medical health care, education system, banking, all the while subsiding wealthy corporations and blowing up the national debt in the process…it’s all just insane and backwards. What makes this so frustrating is that these problems should all be solvable given that GDP and human productivity are higher than ever, and yet corporate corruption all but guaranties that nothing will be solved and corporate government puppets will do everything possible to keep the corruption in place. They hold all the power, and they are winning
I don’t think the founders of the US government really anticipated the power that “corporations” would come to wield over public interests. If they had seen or even dreamed of how powerful corporations would become, they would have included the explicit separation of corporations and state just as they did with church and state. As forward thinking as they may have been, the lack of this separation was a mistake that we may never recover from and will cost us freedoms for generations to come.
Sorry for the rant. Perhaps I roped in too much philosophy in a discussion about corporations refusing to let owners repair their own property, but it’s just such an easy legislative fix, it just seems important talk about why we’re here in the first place.
I agree with you entirely about the damage, the dangers and the fact that legislation is probably the only practical way to fix it, so I’m a strong proponent of the right to repair. But I’m not convinced the public feel so strongly about it. It could simply be that the reason we don’t see lots of this legislation is simply because the majority of people just aren’t too bothered about or affected by it.
Clearly some people are bothered, such as Nebraskan farmers and OSAlert readers, but my feeling is that this is a problem that runs deep, but not wide: it directly affects a few people a lot, but most people very little.
flypig,
Yeah, I think the word that describes this best is apathy. If you ask people strait up, I do think the common sense consensus would be that things should be repairable by owners, and repair shops should not have to rely on the black market, how stupid is that! If it were ever put to a democratic vote, I have confidence that the right to repair would win easily. However given that we don’t vote directly and our representatives don’t have the integrity to represent our interests over corporate ones, they’ve been exceedingly efficient at avoiding legislation that corporations don’t want.
So what’s left then? There’s voting with one’s feet, however I’d agree with you completely, the public deserves an ‘F’. It’s like all the people complaining about the evils of the facebook corporation, yet their actions still support facebook *facepalm*. I know so many people who partake in this hypocrisy. Corporations are learning that they can ignore social demands that don’t effectively hurt their bottom lines. So long as the net effect of closed, proprietary, restrictive, non-repairable products increases profits, that’s where the industry is going to go.
I completely agree that many people just aren’t bothered to do anything about it. Although I do think this “affects” more than a few. Louis Rossman does a better job than I can highlighting how it negatively affects normal consumers. Nevertheless too many consumers just fall into line thinking that’s just the way it is and continue to support the corporations that are taking advantage of them.
Your post is too long.
That’s what she said
There’s a few reports around that Deere uses F/OSS software, which means this is pretty much a case study in why the GPLv3 exists.
Yet the guy who championed it is a bit weird and sleazy so apparently that’s more important…
The problem with the GPLv3 is that its compatibility with sellable software remains uncertain.
More specifically, it contains provisions against software patents which make licensing a patent to sell some software like x264 impossible (which you will want to do of whatever gadget you are selling is supposed to play H.264 video and needs an x264 decoder), it contains anti-DRM provisions (good luck selling anything that can access Netflix HD) and most importantly, the GPLv3’s anti-tivoization provisions can make certain GPLv3 software truly unsellable if the FCC decides that modem code must come tivoized to prevent tampering and the modem works in software.
Most FOSS contributors care about what happens to their software and derivative works, not about the things their software goes into. They don’t buy TiVos or tractors. So they avoid the legal minefield that is the GPLv3 altogether.
If it was a choice between un-tivoable software with a low development cost, or an extremely high development cost but control over the software, a lot of companies are going to pick the low cost option (as they have historically). They’ll still try to find loopholes but the economic argument is really hard to beat.
Those companies, when faced by regulation attempting to force tivoization will then have a very direct financial interest in discouraging that regulation. Right now, they want to encourage that kind of regulation as it works in their favour. “Our hands are tied” etc.
Companies already exploit the licensing and legal situation to their benefit. Good licenses can counterbalance that, if widely adopted.
(I’m leaving aside the question of license violations because that’s always going to happen, regardless.)
Already happening, using older Thinkpads, T420, T430. But actually T420 seems to be the last real “geek/DYI” Thinkpad.
Yeah, I really should put coreboot onto my T420 soon.
The reason people “dont care” is very simple. Modern devices are consumables designed with only a couple of years before obsolescence.
People dont care the battery cant be changed by themselves in their mobile phones, why? Because the phone will be replaced before the battery dies. I spun up a 10 year old MBP the other day, battery needs replacing. But the cost of the battery and how slow the machine is by today’s standards means it’s not worth the hassle and cost to repurpose.
Tractors and other industrial equipment needs to last longer, under harsher conditions. Farmers cant afford to replace tractors every 2 years so the sat system is updated so are looking for “simple” engineering that is simple to repair and maintain. That makes sense, a 10 year old tractor is as effective today as it was 10 years ago when tilling.
Great point. You don’t WANT all the electronic gizmos on things that should last decades. Things like cars and refrigerators and toasters and tractors and houses. The electronics is obsolete long before the thing it’s wedged into… which is EXACTLY why they do it. You don’t buy a new refrigerator every two years? Well, now you have to because we stuck a computer in it! Even when the electronics wouldn’t matter, they’ll tie it to a server online to GUARANTEE that the item only works as long as they want it to. Just shut down the server and you’re stuck… unless you don’t buy online-only garbage.
JLF65,
Refrigeration as a service sounds very prophetic! It makes me wonder if there’s any plausible scenario in which refrigerators could be remotely shut down in the future.
We’re already witnessing these problems happening accidentally with many smart home devices.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/nest-smart-home-problems-1.3410143
Another fundamental problem with proprietary IOT devices is long term support for the life of the device. Companies including google have already bricked devices by shutting down required network infrastructure. Without laws or contracts protecting owner rights, we’re wholly dependent on manufacture whims.
It’s already possible to shutdown and have been performed at least on gas-turbines and heavy production equipment. You can criple the small country economy with it. Or energy system, like it have been done in Venezuela just recently.
The infrastructure will be so locked down, that keeping your old devices won’t even make sense. What would you use them for, if you can’t connect them to anything? Already, if you set up your own email server, gmail users will have emails from it sorted in spam, or not even receive them. What use would it be, to keep control of the server, then?
It’ll never happen. We’re already hitting the limits of Moore’s law. At that point it stops making sense to even bother buying new hardware. There’s been so much progress achieved in tech that many in the sector are buying their own BS. We are going to hit the limits of what tech can achieve and at that point computers are going to become generational devices that are maintained and passed on to future generations.
There is the dark side of the ECU. Sure, it can mix air with fuel more precisely, but you have a soon-to-be obsolete computer in your engine you cannot replicate in a common parts factory.
Even if the software side is taken care of, there is the problem of the chips themselves becoming hard to find. McLaren supercars from the 90s already have this problem: The McLaren company will provide you with the ECU software, but they can’t give you replacement chips because nobody makes them anymore, the equipment used to make them has long been upgraded to a new process or has been decommissioned. Also McLaren dealerships have to use an old 90s laptop to flash working chips with software, with the laptop becoming harder and harder to find today.
Expect old frames or even old VINs which have been certified with less stringent regulations (which can be met without an ECU) to rise in value for certain kinds of vehicles like tractors, and a third-party industry allowing you to build a new-old tractor from the frame up using third-party replacement parts to spring up. Something similar is already happening with “glider” trucks.
Of course, most of the problems farmers are facing today could be solved with right-to-repair legislation, but for long-term equipment, the problems caused by the ECU go deeper than that.
Actually, advances in FPGA and Microcontrollers are making it easier than ever to emulate rare legacy hardware, but there are some issues along the lines you mention.
A better example is the burgeoning use of complex ASICs in new cheap hardware, complex devices design to replace a whole complex system of circuit boards, modern cheap Oscilloscopes are good example of this. However even the ASIC trend may only be temporary, as the rapidly growing access to broadband mesh networks may even make the ASIC obsolete, or at least heavily dependent on remote secure smart algorithms. Client/server machinery with the smart machine learning part of the process no longer embedded locally but instead locked tightly away on the vendors remote server. Can you imagine farmers who cannot operate machine without a functioning network? It’s already happening in mining, manufacturing and transport! Probably the most widely affect area is industrial robotics, with many vendors now basically restricting operation of industrial robots in the absence of a “back to base” network connection. All of it done with $0.01 Microcontrollers the size of this exclamation mark ! globally embedded in everything from connectors to CPUs!
+1
that is all
cpcf: All of it done with $0.01 Microcontrollers the size of this exclamation mark !
This is scary. I was not aware of it. Could you, please, post some URL about these microcontrollers? Thank you.
I already make computer buying decisions based on repairability/upgradeability. Microsoft Surface vs Lenovo X1 Tablet? Tablet since I can replace the battery or hard drive without a hot glue gun and the removal patience of Job in hopes the screen doesn’t crack. Serviceable beat non-serviceable + soldered any day.
samcrumugeon,
Good, there needs to be many more people like you! I always try and factor this into my buying decisions too. The problem is that over time we’ve become marginalized. Whereas it used to be normal for retail products to be user-serviceable, now it’s becoming more niche. Mainstream consumers who don’t base buying decisions on openness/upgradability/repairability are effectively encouraging manufactures to move towards products that cannot be repaired, which severely hurts my choices. The problem becomes even worse when we look at how much our industries are consolidating. I am extremely concerned that long-term, user serviceable products will simply cease to exist anymore where it’s not mandated by law.
The issue is quite simple. Buyers should consider ‘Total Cost of Ownership’ when considering to buy something. Well run companies do that in their investment decisions. You should make a realistic assesment of how long you will be able to use a device and divide how much money you will sink into it by that. If you have to throw something perfectly usable away because the controller software can not be maintained at a reasonable const that calculation quickly fails.
Should there be formal laws preventing price gouging on repairs and spares, that would seem to be a potential global solution?
There was a report in local papers a couple of years ago that claimed a $1.2M AWD Tractor if purchased and assembled using the only available spare parts network would cost $3.2M, almost three times the purchase price of the original machine. The article appeared as brand owners were busy trying to stop 3rd party parts being imported.
Things got so bad in the region I live, price gouging on repairs and parts, that the government legislated a set of “Fit for Purpose” laws. Basically, over a certain value a device must operate as expected for a reasonable use period, a sort of globally and legally enforced extended warranty. It covers everything from toaster ovens to aircraft and if a device fails within the expected period the supplier has to repair or replace it at no cost to the owner. Some dodgy suppliers have already tried to get around it by offering the parts free but they can still charge for labour so they bill at hundreds of dollars per hour. I’ve befitted from the law by having two OLEDs replaced that developed burn in or dead pixels after just a year or two.
Solar and home batteries is an interesting area, they are starting to fail after only 5 or 10 years of an advertised 25 year life, but the companies that made and supplied them are long gone!
Another example would be the 1990’s era Land Cruiser – which is actually more than an 2000’s model. These were the last LC’s to be non-computer based and completely repairable by the owner with standard tools. A couple of friends own these and will never give them away as they can do all repairs and maintenance themselves.
i.e. No supplier lock-in with a computer being required to reset some encrypted ‘service due’ counter.
Another great example of this type of situation is mechanical watches. Provided the parts are available they can be kept going indefinitely by people who have the skills to work on them. Automatic watches are powered by movement, needing no winding, batteries or electronic capacitors. A smartwatch is obsolete within 3-5 years, either from non-replacable battery degradation or hardware limitations. My favourite watch is 50 years old in April and works beautifully.
40 year old tractors run diesel and gasoline engines from the 70’s with the emissions, reliability, and efficiencies of the 70’s. This is analogous to driving a car from the 70’s or early 80’s. They do drive and go the same speed, but I doubt many today will drive a car daily from the era without having a top to bottom rebuild, and, even then, missing efficiencies and niceties like GPS navigation and in the farming world – satellite driving.
in principle, this is an issue as long as items have been sold. Businesses manufacture and want the service business too. There are many cases today where this happens including car keys. It’s not nice but I can see that in the future will become more and more common. as these techniques are invaluable in the software security field.
Farmers do have other tractor manufacturers other than John Deere to choose from.