Submitted by The Commerce Department plans to restrict access to TikTok and WeChat on Sunday as the Trump administration’s executive orders against the two apps are set to take effect.
The Department said Friday that as of Sunday, any moves to distribute or maintain WeChat or TikTok on an app store will be prohibited. Apple and Google didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.
While users who have already downloaded the apps may be able to continue using the software, the restrictions mean updated versions of the apps cannot be downloaded.
This will hit American companies doing business in China hard, since virtually all consumer purchases there take place via WeChat.
Micromanagement instead of sound policies.
The joy of “unregulated free market” Such PR bs…
This is testing the waters for censorship in the US. For all all our faults, blanket bans on what platforms we’re allowed to use based on politics wasn’t one of them. It’s exactly what we criticize the chinese government for doing when they censor our platforms. If we go down this path, ironically it legitimizes china’s censorship regime and will forever change our civil freedoms here. This is how democracy falls.
Trump has said recently that he wants to install a nation-wide firewall, referencing China’s Great Firewall, so “we” can control what foreign companies have access to the American people. Sounds like the exact opposite to me – controlling what we the people have access to – and sounds pretty god damn oppressive to me. In case nobody paid attention in history class, we are actively and willingly repeating it. When the US crumbles under the weight of its own decisions, exactly zero people should be surprised or wonder why it happened.
That “great firewall” effectively already exists, in the form of the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Without those two, this whole app ban thing would be completely unenforceable.
Trump wasn’t talking about about apps, he was talking about the internet as a whole, which is censorship on a far larger scale than any Apple or Google Android app store restriction. For example, he wants the power to block access to some-website.whatever if they post content unfavorable about him. In step with what Alfman said, this app ban is something much more sinister in disguise using China as a distraction. Just look how far we’ve fallen in less than 4 years under the current administration. Our standing in the world has been destroyed, we’re viewed as untrustworthy by even our closest allies, we have people in all branches of govt encouraging leadership that openly shows contempt and disgust for our founding principles, and blatantly violates the law and the constitution with absolutely no care, concern, or consequence. The Trump administration has been systematically dismantling our form of government piece by piece. If the American people don’t wise up to what’s going on take action to stop it, they’re going to wake up living under real tyranny, clueless and regretful they let it happen.
What he wants and what he says and what people think he means by what he says are all different things.
That aside, a grand censorship firewall simply isn’t possible in the US. Look at the CDA. It was essentially an attempt to censor the internet. All that remains of it is the one bit that allowed companies avoid liability for things.
What was going on here is that a foreign company, for practical purposes a foreign agent, was going to be prohibited from trading with US companies, something that is only a “ban” because in order to publish something on a US-owned appstore they need to trade with US companies (and such trade results in the ability of that foreign agent to push code to the devices of millions of US citizens running in all sorts of networks). Thus my point – the app stores basically form a de-facto “great firewall” – they are a choke point at which a pretext can be manufactured to block access to things.
As for “dismantling our form of government”, this seems (in general) pretty squarely to fall under foreign relations, defense and trade powers, despite the recent court ruling on it. With some tweaking to the language and the conditions (like the deal kickback bit) I’m sure it could be made to stand up to a constitutional challenge via SCOTUS.
@The1stImmortal
Respectfully, app store restrictions are nowhere near the level of censorship & control as a nation-wide internet firewall. It’s true that apps by foreign companies are a form of trade and commerce. While a nation-wide firewall umbrellas the same, it would also directly censor what you’re allowed access to and in what’s supposedly to be a free society, that is blatantly oppressive. Trump has made it clear he wants to get rid of anything and anyone with dissenting views of who he is and what he does. And, he’s actively dismantling everything in his way that prevents him from doing so. The aboslute worst thing you can do is not take him seriously, not think he means what he says. How many people in positions of real power does he have to replace with henchmen does it take before people wake up to what’s happening? He installs an AG that openly admits he believes US presidents have unlimited and unchecked power. AG Barr has publicly said his “loyal is to the president first”. The AG is supposed to serve the people via the Office of the President, and execute the rule of law, not serve as a loyal weapon at the presidents disposal to push his personal agenda. Whether we’re talking the AG, FBI, CDC, FCC, DHS, ICE, NSA, etc etc etc, it’s the same thing – Trump appointing people who will do his bidding rather than serve in the American people’s interests. That’s exactly how you go from a democratic republic to tyrannic authoritarianism. Like I said, nobody should wonder how it happened when the day comes where that’s what they wake up to. It’s blatantly obvious history is repeating itself yet people still foolishly think it can’t happen here when the transformation is already underway.
@friedchicken
I’m happy to discuss this particular issue, but I’m not going to get further into conspiracy theories, panic-mongering and paranoia.
@The1stImmortal
Good thing then that everything I’ve mentioned is factual and things that have either already happened or are happening now. As I’ve said, this is nothing but a repeat of history. I don’t know why people insist on going down this exact same path foolishly thinking it won’t lead to the exact same outcome. It always does.
@friedchicken
Unfortunately, many conspiracy theories and delusions weave unrealistic narratives around actual truths, half-truths, and extreme interpretations of actual events.
Generally, it serves little purpose to argue with a conspiracy theorist or someone suffering from delusions and paranoia, as they are likely to reject any possible alternatives and possibly assign the arguer’s allegiance to the antagonist of the conspiracy/delusion.
Good luck in the future.
@The1stImmortal
Like I said, good thing (conspiracy) theories aren’t a part of the discussion. Facts are facts, the truth is the truth, history is history, and reality is reality no matter how hard it is for some people to accept. Being in willful denial of any of that only further cripples those who can’t bare things for what they are.
We seem to be moving towards a “separated” future of the Internet. Even though there are already closed islands here and there (China for example with their “Great Firewall” and some other regimes which occasionally block their countries’ access) it was the exception, not the rule.
However more and more countries are moving towards isolation. Even the democratic ones have technically unreasonable requests. For example, they want the user data to be stored in their country. This sounds like a reasonable request. But don’t forget, there is no accountability to state surveillance (take UK with their leadership in CCTV cameras for example), and it is not technically solvable.
User data is a graph, not a key-value database. I have a family in Europe, and we have a collections sharing information. Let’s say both US, and EU legislates storing all data only inside the country. Then, there is no way to keep that connection, while staying legal. The edge will need to be deleted, no more shared data across state lines. If they allow making copies as long as there is an international connection, then the law would be entirely toothless, since almost all users will have at least one international connection. You follow @ElonMusk, then Twitter can have a copy of user profile in US, for instance.
Just like encryption backdoors this will become a long and unfruitful request. While the free and open Internet will slowly wither and devolve into a mish-mash of separate islands, we will have to watch powerlessly. In the future, if all goes bad,, we might even have “long distance call” like services to connect back to EU friends with special rules and extra charges.
I hope I am wrong about this.
sounds like they will do nothing against sideloading the app on android.
it’s obviously impossible on vanilla apple devices. i just wonder how will that affect the company. because i can imagine people voting with their wallets if they cannot get what they want.
[email protected],
I’ve said it plenty of times, giving corporations the keys to our devices gives governments the power to censor (and monitor) the public for their political ends much more effectively. I worry that people are being too naive about the consequences of not having the keys to one’s own devices. Maybe they think that “it’s a problem for other people, but that won’t happen in my country”, but the technologies we choose impacts the rights we have. It’s frustrating to me when people don’t seem to care about their rights.
Always remember: when we hand over our control to corporations, we’re handing over control to the governments that control the corporations too.
The bans are quite a bit stronger than something that easily circumvented. It is not just that they can’t be downloaded from App Stores, according to the Department of Commerce: https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/09/commerce-department-prohibits-wechat-and-tiktok-transactions-protect
The following transactions will be prohibited for WeChat starting tomorrow and for TikTok starting on various dates (the dates keep getting updated, but not what’s banned):
“1. Any provision of service to distribute or maintain the WeChat or TikTok mobile applications, constituent code, or application updates through an online mobile application store in the U.S.;
2. Any provision of services through the WeChat mobile application for the purpose of transferring funds or processing payments within the U.S.
3. Any provision of internet hosting services enabling the functioning or optimization of the mobile application in the U.S.;
4. Any provision of content delivery network services enabling the functioning or optimization of the mobile application in the U.S.;
5. Any provision directly contracted or arranged internet transit or peering services enabling the function or optimization of the mobile application within the U.S.;
6. Any utilization of the mobile application’s constituent code, functions, or services in the functioning of software or services developed and/or accessible within the U.S.”
From what I can tell, they seem to be doing their damndest to ban internet traffic to these apps.
I’m also somewhat concerned that about #6 if either of those apps happen to use any open-source code. Reasonable people wouldn’t interpret said code as being part of those apps “constituent code”…but reasonable people wouldn’t have banned these apps unless they sell their operations and pay bribes to the US Treasury.
And… the deal is reached:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/19/tech/donald-trump-tiktok-deal-approval/index.html
I am not sure how Chinese counterparts will react. However at least for now the free Internet seems to have dodged a bullet for the day.
I see a “legal” shakedown for corporate espionage. And that’s the tip of the iceberg.
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