The Arizona State Senate was scheduled to vote an unprecedented and controversial bill on Wednesday that would have imposed far-reaching changes on how Apple and Google operate their respective mobile app stores, specifically by allowing alternative in-app payment systems. But the vote never happened, having been passed over on the schedule without explanation. The Verge watched every other bill on the schedule be debated and voted on over the senate’s live stream, but Arizona HB2005, listed first on the agenda, never came up.
One notable Apple critic is now accusing the iPhone maker of stepping in to stop the vote, saying the company hired a former chief of staff to Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey to broker a deal that prevented the bill from being heard in the Senate and ultimately voted on. This is after the legislation, an amendment to the existing HB2005 law, passed the Arizona House of Representatives earlier this month in a landmark 31-29 vote.
Corruption and bribery at work.
Hmmm, I’m told that you still can vote with your wallet…
Like buying from Google or Microsoft? How is that any better?
Kochise,
A duopoly is only marginally better than a monopoly, it’s not healthy for markets to end up here. Of course the winners think they should allowed to keep restrictions in place, but it doesn’t mean regulators should overlook anticompetitive practices. I like the approach that Epic took, they didn’t force users to go with a payment processor, they gave owners a choice. The fact of the matter is that neither app store’s rates are competitive and they know it, which is why they’re so concerned about developers who give owner the freedom to choose alternative processors.
That’s what people say when they don’t realize the system itself is rigged against them and their interests.
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
…
…I really hope you want a do-over. Go ahead, try again.
You’re the one going round in circles over and over again. If you don’t get out from the eternal cycle, your problem won’t be solved just by trying again and again or signing petitions.
Select another ecosystem, start anew.
Kochise,
It’s one thing to say it won’t get fixed, that’s probably one aspect most of us can agree on, haha. But that doesn’t mean he’s wrong about the problem. Actually getting a solution is the dilemma. I don’t believe the free market can fix this, it’s too far corrupt. Ironically this bill was literally about letting consumers & devs choose a way to “vote with their wallet”, so ostensibly you should agree with it too.
Some of us try, but it’s not only hardware platforms that need diversity. Having competitive software ecosystems is equally critical for the free market. The mobile duopoly is is so strong nearly every application category locks us into it. Banks apps, streaming apps, ecommerces apps, taxi apps, airline apps, IOT apps, restaurant apps, social media apps, gaming apps, on so on…
Personally I was willing & able to sacrifice my convenience and choose an alternative in every case except one: my work “upgraded” their VPN to “watchguard cloud VPN” service. Although I managed to install the APK on LineageOS, their software is hard coded to rely on google services in android and as much as it pissed me off, it should surprise absolutely nobody here that their support staff will not support alternatives.
I’m more determined than most to support FOSS and I made a real commotion over this, but in the end I was literally forced (not in the gunpoint sense, but in the employment sense) to buy into the duopoly myself.
So no, apple and google don’t have to worry too much about viable competition other than each other. Realistically the biggest threat to their dominance comes from regulation and anti-trust enforcement. I’m not saying these avenues will work, historically the government has a pretty weak track record and barely lifts a finger to stop anti-competitive behavior. Most politicians are funded by these guys.
@Alfman
You’ve said what seems to evade Kochise. His idea that you can “select another ecosystem, start anew” sounds easy & great in theory but in reality very difficult to do and likely unsustainable. As you pointed out, you’ve been diligent, you’ve `voted with your wallet`, and you still got caught in the web. Maybe Kochise doesn’t understand how strong of a grip these massive companies have over us, and how tightly controlled things actually are. Even if a person can find a way to be freed of it, how likely is it they can be freed of people who aren’t? We can expand out further, beyond the individual, whether it be companies just trying to stay in business or companies that attempt to offer alternatives, but who are still subject to the power of those with far deeper pockets and wield power over the rule/law makers.
The only way to have any kind of shot at change starts with knowing and being honest about what exactly you’re going up against. You have to understand the pieces are manipulated, the judges are controlled, and the game itself is intentionally biased against you. At best it’s naive to think you can escape that level of design by simply making different purchase decisions. I’m not saying people should just roll over. Some fights are worth having even if losing is a foregone conclusion. Take a step back, try comprehending the bigger picture, and understand what you’re truly up against. I feel if we were talking about the Matrix, @Kochise would naively advise us to just stop being in the Matrix if we don’t like it.
The problem with pointing to some open source mobiles and projects is that they often don’t provide a good alternative. Your banking app and popular chat apps won’t work and some solutions will be inferior.
Google and Apple are like an isolated mining town with 2 supermarkets in it, one owned by Google, the other by Apple and they determine what’s on sale and they make you pay with their own payment method (the one they issue).
Not that I keep trying, I do vote with my wallet and buy no Apple products and use zero Google products as far as I can (e.foundation based AOSP implementation with bank app and soon to be deleted whatsapp). Just saying that often you don’t have a real choice.
I do agree it smells of corruption if the bill isn’t even heard.
Wondercool,
I’m surprised the bill made it as far as it did. These corporations could spend billions on lobbying against reform around the world and it would probably be worthwhile to protect the revenue from taxing app purchases.
It’s not “Corruption and bribery”, it’s lobbying, so it’s Ok … I guess.
You forgot the irony tags.
You’re right, it’s not “corruption” at all. Calling it corruption implies that there’s fraud involved and is a criminal act. But, our garbage political system is operating exactly as intended and deemed legal by those who benefit from such things, which is itself legal also. Remember, our Supreme Court ruled that `corporations are people` with more rights than actual people. So, when you think about what decisions our politicians make, which “people” are they acting in the interest of? Who benefits the most, real people or “corporate” people? Clearly the latter so when people are reminded of our “government of the people, by the people, for the people”, they should also be reminded of which “people” it refers to.
Here is where I am confused? If you sell your stuff through a Walmart store you can’t tell Walmart “I don’t want you to get a cut but I still want to sell through your physical Walmart store and while I’m at it I want you to let me use a different payment system so you for sure don’t get a cut”
That’s just ridiculous.
Windows Sucks,
That’s not exactly what’s going on. They’re talking about in-application payment systems. I haven’t read anything suggesting that app stores can’t charge what they want for apps to be listed/distributed through their stores.
Under this bill, I believe app stores would be entitled to charge developers whatever it wants for transactions in the store, but they cannot place restrictions on transactions they are not a party to, which seems pretty reasonable TBH. I can’t find the link right now but in the past there were cases of apple trying to take a cut of a newspaper’s subscriptions for all readers who installed the app and another case of apple going after indirect website sales for a developer who included a link to their website in the app. I can’t say how common this is, but it feels very abusive to me.
Apple actually went so far as to charge it’s 30% fee for classes conducted using IOS apps. Now that is ridiculous. Apple faced a great deal of criticism after facebook brought this to light, so it offered a electronic classes temporary a reprieve during these covid time, but apple’s position is that their “app store” is entitled to charge 30% fees for the classes themselves.
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/apple-extends-fee-waiver-for-digital-classes-in-the-app-store/
These are very legitimate concerns and if not addressed it can lead to increasingly abusive tactics. Do we really want to condone tech companies that conduct themselves like a mafia demanding a “cut” and using credible threats to shut down businesses? That’s what’s going on. We all know the 30% fees are NOT competitive on their own merits,
My own opinion is that app stores should be entitled to oversee what’s sold inside their stores, but they’ve got no business whatsoever blocking owners from going to competing services outside the store. This is extremely anti-consumer and it ought to be illegal.