By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Meh.</blockquote>
Trust me I get that speaking for freedoms on other operating system is not your battle and that's fine. But I'd still like to suggest that advocating for owner rights isn't just for linux. We should encourage everyone to be an advocate for owner rights even when they don't use our preferred operating system. We shouldn't be derailing the messaging around owner rights over OS preferences. Rather we should be minimizing the friction that divides us and focus on what unites us.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
@Alfman
Meh.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Could you please answer my question? A, B or C?</blockquote>
Oh, in my mind I already did respond to it. A, B, and C are not set in stone. Rather it depends on whether there are enough of us to fight the restrictions. Our collective voices are powerful, but we will loose if we just give up and let corporations do whatever they please.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422447">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Lets leave it be for now. No real point in going in circles. Said that i would be happy if you could still answer my question above. That multiple options one.</blockquote>
I don't know what questions you mean, but I concur that it's a good place to stop.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422447">Geck</a>.
@Alfman
Lets leave it be for now. No real point in going in circles. Said that i would be happy if you could still answer my question above. That multiple options one.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
@Alfman
Could you please answer my question? A, B or C?
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>I do have one question remaining regarding that. As you promote usage of Microsoft Windows and are concerned and fighting for more openness in regards to it and are asking other people to join in. And you likely have done that in the past too and hence have the knowledge about the trend. You hence are likely the person to ask this. Do you feel that Microsoft Windows will in regards to openness be A: More open in the future. B: Equally open in the future. C: Less open in the future.</blockquote>
Well for starters I am not promoting the usage of microsoft windows so much as accepting that some people are dependent on it or don't like linux. I don't think shoving them onto linux unwillingly is appropriate, but I do think they can still stand up for owner rights and that we should support them.
Microsoft's behavior really depends on the public's collective behavior. What we demand and how we react has a strong impact when we speak with a common voice. They've backed away from unpopular moves, but if we simply give up then they will surely take advantage.
To me maximizing openness for the masses is more fundamentally important than the masses migrating to linux in the same way that pushing pro-environment policies is more fundamentally important than being in the green party. Having preconditions that we won't work together because they're in different groups is shortsighted and counterproductive, IMHO. The us-vs-them mentality produces divisiveness and infighting that tares the world apart with nothing to show for it.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422447">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>I said Firefox was losing market share. Not GNU/Linux on desktop. As for GNU/Linux on desktop market share. For that i said it’s shameful on how low it is in regards to everything we discussed. As for the rest i stand by my initial remark. Suck it up stop whining and do something about it. </blockquote>
But why the hypocrisy? You've just complained about the state of things and complaining that it's pointless. "Suck it up stop whining and do something about it."
<blockquote>If you don’t want to do that. Fine. Just continue to use something else. Less favorable to the things we discussed extensively. And by doing that don’t pretend somebody owes you something. Like more openness in a walled garden.</blockquote>
Victim blaming shows that you still don't understand that commercial operating systems are not going away. If you were to succeed in convincing their users to stop resisting the removal of owner control on their platforms then the scale becomes worse and not better. Sure I get that you want more people to use linux and FF, I do too. It isn't easy especially given that we're up against resourceful monopolies that have all the money, network effects, and power. But if you internalize your mantra about whining, then *you* should be doing less whining and doing something about it. Come up with new ways to educate people and promote FOSS. If you are unwilling/unable to do that then perhaps stop judging people by a mantra that you yourself can't follow.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422447">Geck</a>.
@Alfman
I said Firefox was losing market share. Not GNU/Linux on desktop. As for GNU/Linux on desktop market share. For that i said it's shameful on how low it is in regards to everything we discussed. As for the rest i stand by my initial remark. Suck it up stop whining and do something about it. If you don't want to do that. Fine. Just continue to use something else. Less favorable to the things we discussed extensively. And by doing that don't pretend somebody owes you something. Like more openness in a walled garden.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
I do have one question remaining regarding that. As you promote usage of Microsoft Windows and are concerned and fighting for more openness in regards to it and are asking other people to join in. And you likely have done that in the past too and hence have the knowledge about the trend. You hence are likely the person to ask this. Do you feel that Microsoft Windows will in regards to openness be A: More open in the future. B: Equally open in the future. C: Less open in the future.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422447">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Suck it up stop whining and do something about it. Would be my advice.</blockquote>
Ok but not for nothing who is the one here who's been whining about linux loosing market share and complaining that things are hopeless? Hint: that's been you throughout the entire thread. Will you take your own advice: stop whining and do something about it?
<blockquote>IMHO it makes sense to at least check if GNU/Linux on desktop has the same watermark.</blockquote>
Linux may work for some and if so then great. But being so judgemental of others' choices is not helpful so maybe try letting that go. We should be encouraging people from all corners to be vocal about owner rights. Consider it as different battles in the war against owner restrictions.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422446">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Good luck with that.</blockquote>
Thank you, that's all you needed to say :)
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422441">Alfman</a>.
Suck it up stop whining and do something about it. Would be my advice. When looking at the watermark saying Windows doesn't support your hardware. Hence i guess it could damage it and the hardware could explode. IMHO it makes sense to at least check if GNU/Linux on desktop has the same watermark. But yes i know. I know. What about the printer drivers.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422439">Alfman</a>.
@Alfman
Good luck with that.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422435">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>One thing we could do is to install GNU/Linux on desktop on all hardware Microsoft decided put an unsupported watermark on. In the next couple of years. That would be a good start.</blockquote>
If you can convince people to do that, then great...but be sensitive to people's needs. For better or worse, telling users that they need to run linux on all that hardware is risky. Linux won't realistically run well on all of it. And even if it does support their hardware it probably won't support their preexisting software.
A lot of people (including myself at one point) experience difficultly and frustration in switching because there are hurdles. This isn't describing you personally, but I cannot underscore this next point enough: linux elitism from die hard linux fanboys is such a major irritant! I actually think their "we know better than everyone else" attitude has done a great deal of harm for linux's reputation without them even realizing it. Average newbies just want an OS that works and not to be spoken down to. IMHO we as a linux community need to be more welcoming and pragmatic. We should not oversell linux is a way that will set up users for disappointment and resentment. Maybe they cannot use linux now, but might be more open minded to it over time.
So maybe you've got ideas for encouraging more linux uptake? I picked it up because magazines were including linux boot CDs, which was pretty cool. But today I think every one of those magazines went out of business. :(
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/134622/microsoft-is-testing-a-desktop-watermark-for-unsupported-windows-11-pcs/#comment-10422433">Geck</a>.
<blockquote>As for the debate. At some point more than enough awareness is built and viable solutions provided. After all that happens it’s time to act. We are way passed all that in 2022. Openness, hardware support and longevity, privacy, preserving environment
…
When things like GNU/Linux on desktop market share will start to grow considerably. Then we can talk.</blockquote>
Openness is not specific to linux though. Maybe that's the only path <i>for you</i>, which is fine, but bear in mind that not everyone wants to switch to linux. We need to fight for openness and owner rights on behalf of everyone, not not just linux users. Because if the mainstream commodity platforms become more closed, that will come back to might linux users as well and it will make alternatives even less accessible.