By: Bill Shooter of Bul
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427627">Artem S. Tashkinov</a>.
Not really. They went for length and tried to make their point by sheer volume of complaints. A lot of those are outdated, and or highlight problems that all operating systems currently have ( Ie printers suck, they all do on every platform). Driver issues, inconsistancies in guis.
There are also a ton of x windows complaints, with the claim that its the dominant composing engine . Its not hasn't been for years. Every one agrees it sucks.
Wayland complaints that also apply to windows. It screws up on multiple monitors I don't know maybe every other day. I know probably a driver issue with intel.
Boot issues, yeah buddy Have I got those on windows. No debugging is really possible since windows 98.
Every operating system sucks for some people with some hardware and use cases. They all have flaws and bright spots. Listing all the bad things out is I don't know kind of a waste of time.
IMHO, its not really honest without a discussion of the bright points of the OS. There are a lot of great things about linux on a desktop that windows is really missing.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427694">dark2</a>.
dark2,
<blockquote>Circuit city went under because they told people Divx disks that would stop working after 48 hours were what customers needed, much the same way friedchicken and other Linux advocates tell people they only need a tablet, webapps, etc.</blockquote>
It's a bad metaphor with too much handwaving needed to get to the point, just sayin'... Also unlike your single use divx disks, webapps & tablets are actually extremely popular so you'd need more explanation for why the metaphor still holds, but honestly I think it's just a bad metaphor in the first place.
More to your point though, about linux telling people what they need, I actually think apple and microsoft are more guilty of this. Linux tends to be fairly well geared to people who want to maximize choice and customization, maybe even to a fault, which is quite the opposite of what you are saying. So, no I'm afraid I cannot agree with your assessment, but it's fine because I'll acknowledge that linux isn't for everyone and IMHO everyone should be free to make choices that are best for themselves.
<blockquote>Sorry, real people don’t settle for the “you must only need a web browser and email” argument. It’s tone deaf, customer hostile nonsense.</blockquote>
Except when they very literally do. For all this blame you attribute to linux for telling users what they need, you seem to be guilty of doing the very same thing. I for one make a very conscious decision to respect people's own choices, whatever their choices may be, maybe a linux desktop works for them or maybe it doesn't, but I maintain that their <i>actual needs</i> are what actually matter and *not* what <i>you say they need</i>. Think about this carefully, because it highlights some of the hypocrisy of your position. I hope you would agree with me that whatever our opinions are, everyone's needs and preferences are different and people aren't wrong for being different than you and I.
By: dark2
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427694">dark2</a>.
Circuit city went under because they told people Divx disks that would stop working after 48 hours were what customers needed, much the same way friedchicken and other Linux advocates tell people they only need a tablet, webapps, etc. It's much the same as watching an episode of Kitchen Nightmares and the management tells the customers their food is good. When that fails they try appealing to authority (in that case Gordon Ramsey) that their terrible food is good, and actually believe if he just tells people their terrible food is good it will solve everything. Sorry, real people don't settle for the "you must only need a web browser and email" argument. It's tone deaf, customer hostile nonsense.
By: Bringbackanonposting
How funny. Have read all the comments. I'm not going to engage here - I've been and done that for years. Hats off to Geck on defence.
Thom will be pleased this article was posted before the end of the year so it rockets up the list for "most active/commented article of 2022".
As a Linux household for 18 years now, I'm more interested in what Haiku is up to for fun/hobby.
By: darkhog
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427666">dark2</a>.
AFAIK Roblox used to run on ActiveX (and yes, you had to use IE to play it) as well as ActiveWorlds (old, failed Second Life clone). Other than that, I am not aware of any games that would require ActiveX to run. And Roblox doesn't require it anymore either.
By: torb
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427707">Geck</a>.
I think it probably was more, but that only because there’s just more money (i.e. paid workers) put into those mainstream operating systems vs Linux on desktop. Apple, Microsoft and Google are literally some of the biggest companies in the world. The amount of resources and money it takes to make something like that is incredible (and even with that they all struggle in various areas).
As far as individual effort is concerned, Linux on the desktop is extremely impressive. I’m sure people working on those projects works really hard! That doesn’t change the fact that there just isn’t that much money put into linux on the desktop in comparison.
Another good comparison point is actually Linux as a server platform, which *does* get enormous amounts of money and resources funneled into it, which expected results.
As for *why* Linux hasn’t gotten those kind of resources put into it, it’s probably because nobody have managed to make a bussiness incentive for it. If somebody found that I bet Linux on the desktop could seriously compete with the others.
That being said, in the meantime we get to have a Linux on the desktop that because of being niche, while not competing with other desktops in the mainstream, has some really unique things that the mainstream ones will never have. That‘s really cool too.
By: friedchicken
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427714">drcouzelis</a>.
I'm sure there's a 10 year old somewhere that loves eating peas too. There are exceptions to every rule and apparently you're the parent of one.
By: dark2
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427698">Geck</a>.
Why would you expect Microsoft to use something other than their own NT OS line of operating systems? They understand it the best, a bunch of VMS guys made sure it was highly portable when they developed it, etc. Honestly it sounds like you let the Linux propaganda get to you. The problem here is bringing it up is about as irrelevant as saying "I prefer sedimentary rocks." At best it's moving the goal posts, but like the wireless router, it just doesn't matter what OS it's running because people don't do work on it.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427641">Alfman</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>So basically what you are saying is it can be done. Imagine that. And based on your text the solutions are rather straightforward. Mozilla take a hint.</blockquote>
You keep saying mozilla could do better but are never specific about what they should be doing to actually grow marketshare. It's so easy to be an armchair activist but in actuality things are a longer shot than you care to admit. Let's say we naively suggest it plays out the same way it did in the past, do you understand there were major causalities then? Netscape failed completely as a company. Would you be ok with that happening to mozilla? And who's to say the benefactor this time would be someone you like? What if we get a 3 way market split between google/ms/apple? It could satisfy antitrust regulators and mozilla could remain non-viable just like before. So I ask you once again: what is your specific plan to grow mozilla's marketshare? You steadfastly refuse to answer this but being able to answer it is central to mozlla's future viability.
By: darkhog
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427698">Geck</a>.
Agreed. Gaming is one of the last obstacles towards full home user switch (or majority of it). Once games get either native Linux ports (some do, even AAA games) or Proton start running decently new AAA titles, nobody will even want to use Windows anymore because, big surprise, people don't like to pay for stuff (Windoze piracy statistics over the years are really telling here) and don't like to be spied on (which Windows 10 does and Windows 11 does even more. Linux doesn't and it doesn't even require a CPU that costs arm and a leg and a spychip nobody wants and nobody asked for).
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427715">Brendan</a>.
Brendan,
<blockquote>Worse; for markets where it is used, the reason it’s used never has anything to do with the OS being good – it’s always development time/cost combined with not having much reason to care that most of the OS is shit.</blockquote>
Linux/windows/macos...the truth is they're all shit in various ways. The main advantage for the wintel desktop monopoly has been its lion's share of applications, something that didn't carry over to windows on servers/embeded/mobile/etc.
<blockquote>Of course within the next 5 years or so Linux will probably be replaced by Fuchsia on smartphones (and chromebooks).</blockquote>
We'll have to see what happens and whether it's good or not. Despite the dominant markethshare, linux has many of us grumbling about execution on mobile. IMHO mobile & ARM have been a major continuing disappointment for FOSS users. The same disregard for the community that microsoft was guilty of applies to the linux kernel too. After years of hardship for FOSS on mobile they've made practically no progress in evolving to benefit the community, especially with ABIs that could decouple proprietary drivers from the rest of the kernel.
I know that Geck keeps placing responsibility on manufacturers, but after decades in this stalemate, it's become a dead end argument - one that is unlikely to resolve itself without action from ourselves no matter how many <i>more</i> decades we wait. Personally I've waited long enough and since linux leadership is evidentially not going to fix this, I welcome more FOSS competition to see if we can't get a better solution from a new source (*).
* Honestly I have many reservations about google's motives with Fuchsia, but 1) I'll withhold judgment until I see it for what it is, 2) only a corporate juggernaut like google has enough influence to reshape a mature market. As much as I'd prefer an independent grass roots alternative, I don't think it's a realistic option, at least not for mainstream devices.
By: brostenen
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427696">nabru</a>.
You forgot to mention all those routers and switches, that make the internet happen. Every single person who uses the internet, uses Linux this way. The internet would not happen the way we know it today, if Linux were not invented.
By: brostenen
The year of desktop Linux for me, was 2016. That was the year that Linux were finally ready for my personal need's, and as Win7 EOL were announced around that time. Then it was the year that I finally switched fully to Linux on my daily driver. I have never regretted my switch.
That said. I did start to learn Linux many years before. First time I installed Linux and gave it a go, was after a Unix course, and when asking around if Unix were cheap to obtain in one way or another, then people recommended me to give Linux a try. Learning Linux from 1995 to 2016 were well invested for me.
Regarding the article. Then it still seems strange to me, that people are making fun of Linux. At the same time they rave about Android. Like what? But it always turn out, that they have no knowledge of computers at all, other than more or less how to start a game or word processor on Windows.
By: Brendan
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427708">Geck</a>.
Sure; the author of the line is technically correct; but when the line is a response to an article about Linux on the desktop it's also a silly and irrelevant. It's like saying "lots of people have cars" in response to someone saying "cars will never replace boats".
Worse; for markets where it is used, the reason it's used never has anything to do with the OS being good - it's always development time/cost combined with not having much reason to care that most of the OS is shit.
Of course within the next 5 years or so Linux will probably be replaced by Fuchsia on smartphones (and chromebooks).
By: drcouzelis
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427710">friedchicken</a>.
"Kids in 2022 wanted Steam Deck for Christmas?"
...yes? My 10 year old has been begging for a Steam Deck for months. And not because of me, I'm completely uninterested in it.
The Steam Deck is like the incredibly popular Nintendo Switch but plays all of the games he loves on Steam.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/135707/rant-year-of-linux-on-the-desktop/#comment-10427712">friedchicken</a>.
You must admit, though. The KFC in-joke was a good one. As for the Steam Deck. It's already a rather successful product and i am sure that more is to come. That is in regards to gaming on GNU/Linux in general. Some of you will hence just have to cope with that. Games really do run on GNU/Linux. Imagine that. All the years we were told to believe otherwise. On how GNU/Linux can run the world but it can't run a video game. On how you need to use Windows for games. And all that BS.