It’s the end of the line for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. These older versions of Windows (plus Windows RT) stop receiving all security updates today, over a decade after their original releases. Microsoft will also stop providing Microsoft Edge browser updates for these operating systems in a few days, and the remaining third-party apps that still work will eventually follow suit (Google Chrome support, most notably, ends early next month).
Windows 7 support for most people actually ended three years ago, but businesses that still used it could pay for up to three years of additional support while they transitioned to Windows 10 or 11. That window has now closed, and Microsoft isn’t offering a paid support option for Windows 8.1.
Run an unspported operating system, or invite more ads and spyware. Tough call.
There is another way. Of course we all know that
I can’t get over how well OpenBSD runs on my new-to-me laptop with an AMD 5700U CPU. Eight cores and sixteen threads of pure bliss, and a GPU that is perfect for a laptop in a mobile workstation role. It feels as fast as Linux, with smooth video playback at any resolution, programs that open instantly, Wi-Fi that actually stays connected unlike with Windows 11 the laptop shipped with. I certainly don’t miss the shovelware and ads everywhere. If it had shipped with Windows 10 I might have been tempted to leave it installed as a dual boot option, but 11 can get bent. It’s the worst version of Windows since ME, even worse than Vista and 8.0.
And I can’t get over people recommending Desktop Linux or one of the BSDs as an upgrade path to Windows users without even bothering to ask for particulars but here you are. Can you guarantee all my devices and software will work? At least Windows 10 is excepted to be more compatible with Windows 7 and 8.1 hardware and software than any Desktop Linux distro or any of the BSDs, simply because it’s the same OS family.
There is a difference between having an interest in OpenBSD and blanketly recommending it as an upgrade path to Windows users (and attempting to hijack Windows topics for that purpose).
Yeah. Linux user here, but also sick of it to be honest. There are a million permutations of user workflows and Linux (and even less so BSD) are not appropriate for many of them. This hijacking needs to stop.
I can’t see where in his post Morgan suggests that any one else use Linux or BSD. It appears to me that he is just reporting on his own experiences.
“There is another way. Of course we all know that ”
That is about as smug as ‘catch-all’ as you can get.
oh please, you know what is more tiring than everything? pointless tone policing. fsck it
When did I do that? I’m speaking of my own experience, not telling anyone else what they should do. Your entire response is based on something that never happened.
Again, I never did that. In fact, I said if my new laptop had shipped with Windows 10 I would likely have kept it on a small partition, because Windows does serve a purpose every now and then. However, Windows 11 is so far from the (finally) polished and useful 10 that it was simply unusable *for me*. I do have a Windows 10 machine, mostly for gaming but it also serves me well when I need something Windows-specific. I’m not against Windows in general, I just really, really don’t like Windows 11 and by the time it reaches Windows 10-like levels of stability and features, it will be time for Windows 12 and the treadmill starts over again. We saw this when 10 first came out, it was horrible compared to the vastly improved 8.1.
Ever thought of a career in politics?
Not really, if you haven’t noticed I have a face for radio
kurkosdr the problem I have is what can you recommend.
>>At least Windows 10 is excepted to be more compatible with Windows 7 and 8.1 hardware and software than any Desktop Linux distro or any of the BSDs, simply because it’s the same OS family.
Bad news this is 100 percent not true. Linux distribution is more likely to be hardware compatible than Windows 10 is for Windows 7 and 8.1 time frame hardware. It simple to forget Windows 10 is 2014 and newer CPU with proper support. Windows !! is mid 2017 CPU or newer. Before you say with windows 10 and 11 and 12 that you can make it work be aware this does trigger windows not to install particular updates and have particular issues you would not have otherwise.
Windows 7 and 8.1 Microsoft still does offer free upgrade to Windows 10. Maybe people need to be reminded of this. But anyone aware of the free upgrade to Windows 10 and has taken it there are 3 reason.
1) they hate Windows 10 and newer
2) Their hardware is not compatible with Windows 10 so is also not compatible with 11 and 12.
3) Software they have is not compatible on newer than windows 7/8.1(does happen insanely rare)
Reason 3 we can fairly much ignore due to how rare it is.
Reason 1 suggesting try Linux/BSD and look closely at workflow most likely correct because they most likely don’t want to replace their complete hardware to go Mac OS.
Reason 2 this one again suggesting try Linux/BSD in VM and look closely at workflow is most likely correct.
Staying with Windows on old hardware ends up costing you new machine.
There are way worse suggests than Linux or BSD. Like the Atlas OS one on this page that that a customized install of a newer version of Windows that not going to work on old Windows 7/8.1 hardware. Anyone who used these customized Windows installs over time have run into issues software, drivers and windows updates and these are top of your normal issues because different drivers, software and Windows updates presume your install is based on Windows default install. Yes most cases they are newer versions of windows that are not supported on the person hardware.
The workflow argument comes up against Linux and BSD this is more complex. Some countries laws allow you to take a Windows 7/8.1 install and move it into a virtual machine with OEM license. Microsoft in fact provides tool for it Disk2vhd. Linux or BSD might be the cheapest way to keep most of the existing workflow and make it secure. Yes virtual machine is going to have performance cost. This will depend on how powerful the machine is and how ram filled it is.
The workflow argument alters a lot once you have old OS past end of life in the mix. Because newer versions of software normally start not working in that older OS that is no longer support so the permutations of useful supported workflows start shrinking at quite at high rate. Linux or BSD being new OS maintained it does not have the degrading number of useful supported workflows problems. Yes there is a point when end of life version of Windows useful supported workflows fall under the useful support workflows of up-to date Linux or BSD install. This point has moved a lot with Valve proton work.
kurkosdr I know this is long but its one of these more complicated things. Yes suggesting person re-looks at their workflow to see if their workflow can go cross platform and consider new Linux/BSD is very valid advice when dealing with old no longer supported OS on old hardware. Linux and BSD out of all your major OS choices have the longest CPU support time frames that why they are particular good in the old OS on old hardware problem. Please note I said good not perfect.
That’s a really long response
man that was just a personal recount on a fairly niche website popular with IT nerds. Relax
I always wonder about these comments that always pop up since the 00s having these terrible issues with basic windows functionality, when millions and millions of other users seem to manage to get work done with the same OS just fine.
I wonder if linux or bsd will (really) have drivers for my gpu, instead of putting in a generic one and cutting my battery life in half.
I wonder if this hard drive enclosure will work or not.
I wonder if I’ll be able to use gestures with the touchpad, just like I can do on windows, or if the touchpad driver can’t be bothered to support two-finger gestures.
I wonder what kind of bugs will I have to endure with this or that driver. I don’t like being forced to restart the dirty old realtek sound driver every other day after all.
I wonder which Fn+ key combination won’t work.
Lemme have the ads instead. At least I can learn to ignore them, instead of saying goodbye to half the functionality of the accessories I paid for.
Linux user here. Prepare for one of the full on zealots to post a list of hoops you need to jump through
Under-phil,
Most of the time we get accused of zealotry, it’s unjustified. I’ve been asking people to be pragmatic and stop being dogmatic with their views. The fact that alt-os is a valid option for some is really not something to be offended by. It is relevant when talking about options for older computers. You may not agree, just like cevvalkoala earlier, and that’s absolutely fine, I understand his points and respect his opinion. But the ad hominem attacks including yours here BTW are disrespectful and only serve to fan the flames of mindless turf war. So how about about we get above that and refrain from petty insults. Reasonable?
Boot a live distro and find out. It’s not that hard. You will find out most of your answers from that, and without messing up your Windows installation. No risk at all.
Yes: Changing to, and running an alt-os takes some time and effort. But: The upside is very positive. Better security, less cost and more stability.
My current world requires me to use both Windows and Linux for regular use and in some rather innovative ways. Learning both OSes has been much more valuable than just learning one of them.
Well I don’t. Like most of these millions and millions, I get work done with Windows because I don’t have a choice. But I’m pretty sick of the small things, mostly related to network problems, that sometimes make it a pain. That doesn’t mean Linux doesn’t bring its fair share of pains, but I’m definitely more inclined to let them pass because 1/ noone forces Linux on me 2/ I feel I can actually help fixing them (and have done so from time to time, if few). And even then, I’m using more and more Linux inside Windows these days, with WSL and Docker, which help a lot in my professional environment.
That doesn’t mean I feel the urge to introduce Linux in every conversation about Windows though, on the contrary, precisely because I feel it shouldn’t feel forced down anyone’s throat. Actually, I do share the same (slight, rest assured) contempt for people who feel compelled to do it, as I do for people quick to jump into this fruitless OS war.
Jeez, I don’t even know why I let myself write this, but I believe I felt I had to say this: I have thought of OSAlert as some kind of haven relatively free of these arguments (or, at least, where they were more respectful and fact based than elsewhere on the Internet) until a few years ago. I actually think it started to get annoying when Thom himself felt the need to state his preference for Linux at pretty much every occasion. I get it, I do, but the place simply felt better when there was no condescension from either church of enthusiasts, and the discussions were more enlightening than they feel these days.
worsehappens,
I think most users (including windows and linux) don’t care that much what others use. Whatever makes you happy makes me happy. The “zealot” and other name calling that accompanies almost any mention of linux is frustrating though because it descends immediately into a said OS turf war, which I despise. I’d rather people get along and have respect for one another, if only I knew how to get there.
Haha, yeah. Getting yourself involved, even as a centrist, can often mean you’ll be fighting with all sides and everyone will accuse you of siding the enemy. Look at me, I’ve been candid about linux having problems, not being compatible with all hardware and software, and not being for everyone, but then people take offense and call me a zealot when I say I know some grandmas for who linux is fine for their needs. Also whenever I criticize windows, it’s assumed it’s because I’m a linux zealot and not because my point could have merit. There’s no winning because people want to stereotype you the moment you challenge their world view rather than opening up to a discussion with deeper reflection.
I don’t think people should be triggered by Thom’s preferences. It’s just a data point and people have been disagreeing with him for as long as I can remember. I want to push back on the notion that “there was no condescension from either church of enthusiasts, and the discussions were more enlightening than they feel these days”. It hasn’t always been the same people, but superiority and condescension and OS turf wars have always been a thing. It’s died down since steve jobs left, but do you remember just how bad the religious fighting got between “MAC” and “PC” users? I sure do and sometimes it got so obnoxious that I had to question how much of it was caused by astroturfing campaigns rather than real people.
I find it a lot easier for different groups to get along with each other when we take religion out of operating systems, but I can only control myself. I don’t know how you convince others to be more respectful if they don’t want to be…?
You’re probably right. I guess I’m just getting older and subject to the “good old times” memory warping syndrom :-/ My apologies to Thom, though, that finger pointing was not very useful and indeed, if people feel triggered by his mentioning his preferences, it’s as much on them.
If you ever find a way, please let me know !
worsehappens,
I don’t find this a satisfactory answer because it implies a degree of self bubble isolation, but it seems to me that it would be much easier to avoid dogmatic arguments if you simply refrain from putting yourself in the position of interacting with overly religious people in the first place.
Literally the first post is the Linux version of the “Man who doesn’t own a TV” Onion Parody. How does it feel to be the Linux equivalent of an Onion parody when you literally cannot resist chiming in on something that has Jack Squat to do with BSD?
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469
bassbeast,
https://www.osnews.com/story/134500/windows-11-update-coming-next-month-brings-android-apps-to-windows/
https://www.osnews.com/story/135335/microsoft-releases-windows-11-22h2-formally-dubbed-the-2022-update/
Do you practice this line in the mirror?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRNHgi1RzU&t=5s
Bittersweet for me. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows (in my opinion) that felt like genuine progress. Everything since doesn’t jive with me.
If you must move to Windows 10 then try Atlas: https://atlasos.net/
“Atlas is a Windows version designed for gamers. Atlas users can enjoy higher framerate, lowered input delay & latency. Great for people on a low-end system, or high-end gaming machine.”
Or use Windows 10 LTSC.
What would amuse me is if someone with Musk’s level of money would just fund ReactOS. Get some serious competition in the Windows API space. You know, for the betterment of mankind. The greed around cornering the market with an operating system… and then to also sell ad space on top of it…
At least there is BSD /Linux we can fall back to.
The funny thing is that, for ordinary users, a lack of updates can be perceived as a feature, not a problem. Ordinary users (that don’t know what vulnerabilities are) absolutely loathe OS updates. OS updates make their PCs sound like a vacuum cleaner when downloading and installing, they lock up the computer during reboots for long enough to be annoying (or even cause reboots out of the blue), and they do all that to leave them with a computer that’s the same as before (notionally).
Sure, Microsoft warns about the security perils of a no-longer supported Windows version, but ordinary users are pelted with so much IT security fearmongering in their daily lives (from AV vendors selling renewals to YouTubers shilling VPN services) that they just ignore it as yet another upsell, and Microsoft isn’t helping by recommending a new PC instead of upgrading to a newer version of Windows when they show the warning.
And this is why Windows 7 still runs on ~11% of Windows PC out there despite having 3 years’ worth of unpatched vulnerabilities (for installs without ESU): Lots of people consider non-updates a blessing and pray their old Windows 7 PC won’t break.
It’s the same thing with Android updates. Most users breathe a sigh of relief when updates stop coming and don’t interrupt their lives. I am guilty of this when it comes to Android and Android TV devices. Although for Windows I am between upgrading to Windows 10 LTSC or Windows 10 proper, because Windows vulnerabilities tend to sting.
I hear you, and you won’t find a huge fan of updates here.
The biggest problem for 7 users like me will begin not when MS stops (stopped) providing updates, but when software I actually use will stop working on my computer. I guess Google Drive app will stop working on the 23rd of this month, and it was a handy thing, providing a cheap way to backup my important folders. I won’t find 100 GB of backup space for just 3 bucks a year anywhere else. And the reason being Google took the lazy path and built the backup app on top of the browser engine, rather than developing a true backup app (I know, it is much easier to support multiple platforms that way). Now we’re stuck with a backup app using 1 gig of ram, and destined to stop working as the chromium team decided not to bother with supporting 10% of the market.
Then, in a year or two, memsource translation software will stop working, because the developers are convinced that they must always use the latest version of visual studio, instead of the version that just worked. Then I’ll be forced to move.
An OS is like home. And being forced to move to a new one every now and then is really a hit on nerves. There should be a law making Nadella guy move to a new home, and carry around all his things on his own, whenever they release a new OS version.
And an unavoidable note on the taskbar: If I wanted my computer to look like an apple, I’d go buy one, instead of going with a cheap knock-off.
Is there no other way to use Google Drive from Windows 7, no 3rd party software?
It might not be as seamless for you, but FileZilla can apparently access Google Drive.
https://filezillapro.com/upload-files-to-google-drive/
cevvalkoala,
A possible solution is to run a linux appliance that mounts a google drive then exposes it via a standard samba share that the windows 7 host can access. Spinning up a lightweight headless linux or bsd distro could do the trick if you know your way around these operating systems. Technically the same trick might work running a windows 10/11 guest too, but you probably wouldn’t want to buy a new windows license for this purpose.
Given your other posts on linux, I don’t imagine this idea will curry favor with you, but I think it’s worth mentioning as a potential solution for when native software stops working. I’ve used this trick before in similar situations and it was quite handy. On newer versions of windows you might be able to use WSL, but of course this wasn’t available on windows 7.
Great tips! Also FreeFileSync as it is multiplatform.
FreeFileSync recommended by Bubi looks nice. There are also many utilities which map google drive as a network drive on windows. Anyway, I was talking about the writing on the wall, rather than a specific complaint. Today it will be google drive app which stops working on win7. Tomorrow it will be something else.
Anyway, thank you all for the suggestions.
With the end of Windows 7 we can say this is an end to an era. That is Windows as we knew it for three to four decades. That Windows is gone and Windows will never be the same again. And in the end most Windows users do know that. So all the resistance and excuses to change. During all this decades. All that in the end didn’t help all that much. As Windows changed instead.
I’m not sure there is any case for an OS vendor to claim the high ground.
For every MS machine that we have on life support, systems that still require XP, 2000 or 7 to run certain dedicated hardware, we have a Linux or Mac system in the exact same situation. Stuck on an old OS because the later versions do not support the hardware, be they a Tiger or a Mint. None of them receiving security updates, they are barred and barricaded to the best of our ability!
Um, I’d love to know what “common/accessible” hardware was mainline GNU-Linux kernel supported at some point and isn’t now. I’m serious. Preferably if you have 1st hand experience too. Anyone can inet search for examples. I’m pretty sure I can still run Linux on anything I have here PII and newer with all of the peripherals of the day, printers, PCI cards…. I think I have a handheld scanner with a PCI card here that isn’t supported – but it never was supported…
Hardware support is something I really like about Linux. I use both operating systems daily but for things like plugging some no name old usb to serial adapter for instance, it just works on any linux I’ve tried it but on windows I have to spend ages and look up hardware ID number to find drivers on a sketchy website that may or may not work on 10 or 11. Same for older printers, they normally auto install in something like Ubuntu while are unusable on windows.
I still see a lot of industrial computers in things like waste water plants or even power generation running windows XP. They are set up with SCADA systems from Rockwell and Rockwell just doesn’t do backwards compatibility. If the SCADA program was made with version 20 it won’t work on 21 and vice versa and you can’t run the older version on anything newer then XP. These XP devices are actually networked but thankfully are usually only on a local network with no gateway but that’s not always the case. They now sell specialized gateway products to put in front of these devices at least.
I honestly forgot Windows 8 even existed. O_O
Was that the one with Start Menu that covered the entire screen? I think it’s interesting that Microsoft is ending Windows 8 at the same time they end Windows 7. Like, “We know nobody uses Windows 8 so we’ll just end it now…”
I have 8.1 around here with some driving sim games on it. Also have another 8.1 in VBox I use a few times a week to Remote Desktop into a client network. If ReactOS was able to cover that use case I guarantee there would be nothing Msoft left in my home office.
My advice for users is this: Start looking for free alternatives to all your desktop software. Windows is becoming less compatible not more compatible with software. Most commercial software is moving towards subscription models. If you want to not be forking out tons of money, especially if you’re interested in art or game development then you need to be moving to free tools. The situation is getting better quite quickly. I used to be a big hold out for Caligari trueSpace and Maya over Blender, but not anymore.
This is completely off topic but I really do enjoy blender.
It’s been improving quite a bit feature-wise. Some things can be rather awkward though, like passing information between shaders and bizarre limitations. It’s easier to wrap your brain around blender if you’re familiar with opengl because the shaders are practically a 1:1 mapping to it. It’s not exactly intuitive but then neither are the commercial variants IMHO. As a developer I kind of enjoy describing the world through math. I don’t find opengl to be pleasant though and at times I wish blender had better abstractions. I guess this is why most users of modeling software in practice buy materials for texture/bump mapping rather than creating math based shaders, it’s easier to get fast results that way without being good at math, haha.
Fluid/gas dynamics are awesome, but they’re still not GPU accelerated so be prepared to wait a long time.
I doubt anyone here has one, but I’m really curious about performance under the new XE GPU support for cycles.
@Darkimage
100% agree, it’s a great strategy for experienced users, of course it’s not impossible that when you go down that route you’ll be forced into a fork or two due to licensing issues.
Getting Joe Average to use LibreOffice over MS Office is another issue entirely. Pretty much the only users I have success with in this regard are those already likely to make use of Linux as a desktop, I’m sure there is a tell in there somewhere!