By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438734">j0scher</a>.
j0scher,
<blockquote>I think you’re just using fascism synonymously with authoritarianism.</blockquote>
Sure, they are very close siblings. I think autocracy belongs there too.
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/fascism.html
These all describe political freedom (or lack thereof). Such governments can dictate the economy as in communism, but you can technically have an authoritarian regime that believes in capitalist economy. And moreover their capitalistic markets could theoretically be even stronger than those of a democracy. I'm not trying to suggest this is true as a rule, only that these concepts exist on dimensions that allow for it.
By: Bill Shooter of Bul
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438678">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
No I get it, And don't disagree really. There is a dichotomy there and really always has been with this country. Our laws are lofty in their intent, but on the ground the enforcement is awful. There is much that needs to be changed including the carceral state. We send tax dollars on jails instead of schools, Its really really messed up. Your punishment for any given crime is not independent of where you commit it, who you commit it against, what your ethnic background is, your social status.
By: j0scher
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438733">Alfman</a>.
I think you're just using fascism synonymously with authoritarianism.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438730">j0scher</a>.
j0scher,
<blockquote>So when an ultra-capitalist company like Apple Inc. obeys the demands of the Communist Party, this is somehow “fascism” (a political ideology rejecting both capitalism and communism)? This triggers me as a hobby historian. “Fascism” is not a synonym for “badguyism”, it is an actual ideology. Stop using meaningless buzzwords.</blockquote>
Communism vs Capitalism is more about the economic spectrum.
Fascism versus democracy is more about the political spectrum.
Concepts that exist in two different dimensions aren't strictly exclusive. Arguably China has a fascist government regime with a foot in both capitalistic and communistic economic policies.
I don't think you're going to like this article...
https://theconversation.com/how-china-combined-authoritarianism-with-capitalism-to-create-a-new-communism-167586
By: j0scher
So when an ultra-capitalist company like Apple Inc. obeys the demands of the Communist Party, this is somehow "fascism" (a political ideology rejecting both capitalism and communism)? This triggers me as a hobby historian. "Fascism" is not a synonym for "badguyism", it is an actual ideology. Stop using meaningless buzzwords.
By: CaptainN-
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438678">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
America (I'm American) locks up more people per capita than any other country (especially in the southern red states). I'd ask how you define that as "freedom" - but there's a great book by George Lakoff called "Who's Freedom" to explain it.
By: CaptainN-
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438657">Alfman</a>.
I wanted to add a dimension, rather than simply "pick a side"
By: Geck
In short just as Apple has been banding over to China so will Apple and Gruber for EU. That is for now global companies don't have the power to disregard local laws. Let alone an individual.
By: Bill Shooter of Bul
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438668">Andreas Reichel</a>.
Its Freedomland not justice land. There are laws and then the enforcement of the laws. A difference without distinction? Perhaps.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438671">Andreas Reichel</a>.
You said you agree with me on monopolies, so some of my comment may come across as redundant, but I'd like to specifically emphasis that even duopolies are extremely harmful to consumer choice. That we've allowed things to reach the current duopoly is an indicator that market oversight has failed and free market competition is already in grave trouble. I don't think it's rational to claim "it's peoples choice" when the consumers who want more choices, including myself and Thom, are hurting today.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438671">Andreas Reichel</a>.
Andreas Reichel,
<blockquote>I very much agree with you on monopolies and I also make provisions for endangering lives (Boeing and Medical Sectors) or damaging the environment.
But nothing of that applies to Apple or Facebook or Google. You can live perfectly fine without them. It’s peoples choice.</blockquote>
It's not that simple though. Here's a personal anecdote: my phone runs lineageOS, but when I needed a 2FA client for work, the company I worked for went with a service that only supports stock android phones with google play services. It didn't work on my phone, I opened up tickets and everything, nobody, not the company, nor the software authors gave a crap about alternatives. I was literally forced to buy a new phone, not at gun point of course, but to keep my job. I asked them to buy me a phone, but they said it was my responsibility to own a standard phone. That's the real world we live in.
One of the reasons we have no viable competition is because we've allowed the apples and googles to kill off competition with anti-competitive tactics that make consumers dependent on them while simultaneously taking steps to block competitors. This is bad and must not be allowed in a healthy free market.
I know people will come in and defend apple or google anti-consumer practices because they hate government regulation, and I get that. I'm not a fan of governments that would take away our liberties. But the truth is the absence of government corporate oversight does not equate to not freedom, not even close. That just leaves the entire market at the mercy of the powerful corporations, which always result in them abusing their power to kill off more competitors and take away more of our choices. Whether we like or not, governments are the only entities capable of putting a stop to corporate abuses. Without antitrust enforcement, we're right back to the robber baron era: bad for consumers, bad for employees, bad for innovation, bad for competition, and bad for freedom.
By: Andreas Reichel
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438670">Alfman</a>.
>> Don’t get me wrong, I love you and I despise Apple.
> Wow, hearing that makes me surprisingly uncomfortable.
Deal with it, a lot of people don't like Apple! :-D
By: Andreas Reichel
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438670">Alfman</a>.
I very much agree with you on monopolies and I also make provisions for endangering lives (Boeing and Medical Sectors) or damaging the environment.
But nothing of that applies to Apple or Facebook or Google. You can live perfectly fine without them. It's peoples choice.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438659">Andreas Reichel</a>.
Andreas Reichel,
<blockquote>Sorry, I don’t get it: who exactly forced you to buy Apple products and services?</blockquote>
I find that problem is that this logic can be used to justify everything corporations do. no matter how anti-consumer it is and without regards to market dominance.
<blockquote>Don’t get me wrong, I love you and I despise Apple.</blockquote>
Wow, hearing that makes me surprisingly uncomfortable. Probably never been said before on osnews, haha.
Edit: I stand corrected:
https://www.osnews.com/story/139070/open-source-is-about-more-than-just-code/#comment-10437878
I love you too :)
<blockquote>But I don’t see a reason to regulate whips when people WANT to indulge in masochistic games?/blockquote>
Let me put it this way.
<blockquote>
Bob: It is anti-consumer that Google are doing X, owners should control their own devices.
Albert: I don't get it, who exactly forced you to buy Google products and services?
Bob: It is anti-consumer that Apple are doing Y, owners should control their own devices.
Frank: I don't get it, who exactly forced you to buy Apple products and services?
Bob: Sigh.</blockquote>
Anti-consumer restrictions not only stand to deprive owners of the right to control their own hardware, but they end up blocking the competitors that a duopoly market so desperately needs</blockquote>
By: Andreas Reichel
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438666">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
A wise comment, I tip my hat!
Buddhism calls it the "Golden Path", they middle ground balancing different views and avoiding any kind of extremism.
By: Andreas Reichel
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139357/corporatism-and-fascism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/#comment-10438667">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
Freedom-land where people sit for 20 years in a dungeon without a trial (Guantanomo) and where Prisons have become perpetual industry?
Although I agree that US/EU are probably the least bad places to live regarding political freedom, from far away I can't see any contrasted sides. Just shades of grey and players in a game and lots of propaganda.