By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440237">moriarty99779</a>.
moriarty99779,
<blockquote>The way I handle this is by forcing the devices that have hard coded DNS addresses to get their requests redirected to my Pi-Hole using firewall rules. The Pi-Hole then uses my local DNS server (unbound) for resolution, with non-cached items being sent upstream. Only the DNS server itsself is allowed to go outside of my network. Works really well.</blockquote>
Works now, but what about when devices start enforcing their own policy and you can't change it? In the same way that google's policy has been to deliberately handicap network admins from deploying DHCPv6 on their own networks, they could interfere with local DNS. In a battle of wills, you might declare that you won't be support those devices until they fix it, which would be your right. But realistically networks like yours make up 0% of the market and google can afford to disregard you indefinitely. I'm not saying this would be defensible, quite the contrary actually. But if it does happen google won't be shedding any tears, meanwhile you could find yourself having to make exceptions to support users running the latest chrome browsers (and play store, etc). or sticking to your guns and banning google's latest software.
This is all hypothetical for now, but it is conceivable for google to take on pihole adblocking as a future battle. Heck, I could see microsoft doing this too. Both have a strong incentive to lock things down in consumer operating systems and most users wouldn't fight them on it.
By: moriarty99779
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440232">Alfman</a>.
The way I handle this is by forcing the devices that have hard coded DNS addresses to get their requests redirected to my Pi-Hole using firewall rules. The Pi-Hole then uses my local DNS server (unbound) for resolution, with non-cached items being sent upstream. Only the DNS server itsself is allowed to go outside of my network. Works really well.
By: NaGERST
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440216">Geck</a>.
I know pretty much what happened. Public schooling. For example homework was invented by an Italianteacher as a punishment and it has only detrimental effects on kids development.
Kids should usually only need 9-10 hours per week at home to learn the same basic knowledge that k-12 gives. It is all mostly a waste of time and money.
Now the state is free to propagandize the kids to any degree possible.
As long as the kids know who is deemed "good" by the state and who is "not good" it is all that matters.
By: Shifu
Chrome? Never heard of it.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440217">Alfman</a>.
You could argue that it was always like that, still some things succeeded and then failed and some never succeeded, historically speaking. So belief, presented on the internet in the form of a meme, that's it, last straw, i am switching to Linux/Firefox. No. This will never work. That doesn't mean something else wouldn't work, though. As for available options in regards to GNU/Linux. Maybe a decade or two back, that was still a thing. A belief things are lacking and that is holding the adoption of GNU/Linux on desktop back. No. That turned out to be a dead end too, it wasn't it. On the pros side it just works now, for the one percent and that i guess is still something. FOSS in the sense of usually an unpaid job and a mission behind it, here likely a strategy of exclusiveness is starting to make more and more sense. As otherwise the motivation will simply dry out. Realization you are investing an effort in helping to protect a monopoly due to spoon feeding the monopoly user base with quality FOSS. In a way you are contributing to sustaining the very system you are fighting against and on the long term you will stop doing that. This is already noticeable, as a lot of software is not even being made today any more, as what woudl be the point. Just use some cloud based version with subscription instead. And everything cloud based is usually too hard to set up and maintain for end users anyway, so that further reduces the logic and chances in doing it in the first place. For who? Anyway, best to move to some model that will actually produce results or FOSS will slowly die out due to becoming pointless, monopolies FOSS once wanted to address still to thrive.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440228">moriarty99779</a>.
moriarty99779,
<blockquote>Yet another reason to start using and recommending Pi-Hole or other DNS sinks. And maybe couple that with a proxy-based solution as well to do some filtering.</blockquote>
I'm seeing more devices that bypass local DNS by default. For now this remains configurable, but there is a possibility that end user control over DNS may be going away in the future. DNS over HTTPS to an officially designated server could become mandatory and if so the pi-hole as a means of blocking DNS requests becomes obsolete. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but it would be easy for the tech giants to do if they don't like what users are doing.
By: moriarty99779
Yet another reason to start using and recommending Pi-Hole or other DNS sinks. And maybe couple that with a proxy-based solution as well to do some filtering.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440217">Alfman</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>Actually my observation is not that much related to things like being optimistic or pessimistic or being idealistic or realistic or being young or old … It’s more of a description of current state of affairs. As some people still seem to believe that if Windows or Chrome will do something “bad”, then GNU/Linux and Firefox will surely see an influx of converts. For Apple users here likely we all agree that cause is lost and can’t be ever won. </blockquote>
That's kind of the point though, the current state of affairs is a continuation of what it's always been: consumers are dumb, naive, and support products and companies that harm their own interests...but this really is nothing new. The year and the specifics will change, but overall this perception is a timeless tradition between generations. The last generation had the same thoughts you are thinking as did the one before them, and so will the next, etc. Most of your complaints have happened before, you just the latest generation to feel it. I am there too.
<blockquote>For example if some useful software will only be made available for GNU/Linux, then the user base of this software will be forced to use GNU/Linux. I believe this is something worth exploring next, to start forcing people on switching to GNU/Linux on desktop. Instead of making it easy for them, to use quality FOSS on Windows and Apple devices.</blockquote>
I understand why you feel that way but things like that don't just happen because we'd like it to. As determined as I am to find and use linux & FOSS alternatives, it can still be a struggle sometimes...even for things I want to pay money for, there isn't always a linux option because so many companies don't bother to support it. Windows users generally take support for granted, which is one of the benefits of going with the monopoly. Until linux can gain more critical mass, support will remain spotty. It's a classic catch-22.
By: andyprough
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440218">andyprough</a>.
>"Neither TOR or whonix are for the average user..."
Interesting perspective, but still leaves the question of what is the reason madaidan chose a Firefox based browser over a Tor based browser? Brave has had Tor built-in for several years now, and madaidan hasn't moved to using it with whonix. You and I could give our opinions all day long based on personal experience, but we aren't world renowned security researchers working on a super secure project.
>"As for CVE’s, I would be concerned if Google Chrome were not patched frequently given the size of the user base"
Once again, interesting comment and I appreciate your perspective, but what's madaidan's perspective after two years of record-breaking numbers of zero day exploits for Chrome/chromium? If he updated his blog post today, what would be different? The fact that he hasn't updated it since 2022 gives me pause to consider that his current opinion may be radically different. Keep in mind, Firefox also gets fuzzed millions of times per month, gets hacked on with equal ferocity by the blackhats, and gets attacked at all the same pwn2own gatherings. It isn't like Chrome/chromium are getting more attention because they have more users - they all get constantly attacked. The huge number of recent failures of Chrome/chromium may point to a deeper set of issues, and probably does since Firefox has a different javascript engine and most exploits are related to the js engine.
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440217">Alfman</a>.
Actually my observation is not that much related to things like being optimistic or pessimistic or being idealistic or realistic or being young or old ... It's more of a description of current state of affairs. As some people still seem to believe that if Windows or Chrome will do something "bad", then GNU/Linux and Firefox will surely see an influx of converts. For Apple users here likely we all agree that cause is lost and can't be ever won. Anyway, from time to time i feel somebody needs to say it out loud, no, it simply won't happen. Microsoft can do whatever they want with Windows and Google can do whatever they want with Chrome. Their user base won't resent them in such way that they would migrate to GNU/Linux or Firefox in some meaningful way. The reason i am saying this is to recognize this is hence not the right strategy, believing it will ever happen in such way. Just like it didn't happen on when games became a thing on GNU/Linux. Years prior it was claimed this is one of the main reasons, games, just like some still seem to believe the strategy could be for Microsoft or Google to misbehave and for people to somehow realize that and to the right thing. One thing to say here is just look at an avarage Apple user, the level of abuse involved is way above anything Microsoft or Google are capable of doing and Apple user base will defend Apple. All in all i feel it's time to try different things compared to the ones mentioned. For example if some useful software will only be made available for GNU/Linux, then the user base of this software will be forced to use GNU/Linux. I believe this is something worth exploring next, to start forcing people on switching to GNU/Linux on desktop. Instead of making it easy for them, to use quality FOSS on Windows and Apple devices.
By: gunfleet
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440218">andyprough</a>.
Neither TOR or whonix are for the average user, you cannot login for your email, or do ecommerce, and you will be locked out of many sites or be stuck with endless captchas.
As for CVE's, I would be concerned if Google Chrome were not patched frequently given the size of the user base. It is something to consider with other chrome based browsers who are usually 2 or 3 days behind with security patches.
By: Bogdanow
I am going to move FF soon. Ad blocking is only one thing, another is account sharing
By: Squizzler
Another one here quite happily running Firefox on my ElementaryOS (GNU/linux).
The other strategy is to bin the legacy web and its cruft altogether. I am a new user of Gemini web and see potential for mirroring the content of good independent sites like this. Sadly OS news has stopped using its own Gemini feed, last time I checked.
By: andyprough
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440210">gunfleet</a>.
madaidan wrote the original version of that blog post 10 years ago.
madaidan is a renowned security researcher who is a lead developer for the super-secure "whonix" project.
whonix has used a Firefox-based browser for the past 10 years (Tor Browser), not a Chrome-based browser. Maybe you should ask madaidan why his super-secure whonix project uses Firefox instead of Chrome? Is this a case of, "Do what I say, not what I do"?
Also, Chrome/chromium have had about 20 to 30 different zero-day exploits over the last two years since madaidan last updated that blog post. Would madaidan's opinion of Chrome/chromium be the same today? Doesn't seem terribly secure based on its own recent track record of record breaking insecurity.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440216">Geck</a>.
Geck,
<blockquote>To be honest i don’t know what exactly happened to people. What i do know is that regardless of what Microsoft does, negligible amount of Windows user base will migrate to GNU/Linux. And regardless of what Google does, negligible amount of Chrome users will migrate to Firefox.</blockquote>
I think people have always behaved like this. Maybe they haven't changed as much as your perception of them has. I remember couple years ago when you were more of an optimist and always eager to say how FOSS would take over and win as though it were inevitable. And now I'd say maybe you've become more of a realist. I suspect similar shifts are common as we age. In youth we think "the world would be so much better if only X, Y, Z..." And we weren't necessarily wrong, it probably would be better, but we were ignorant of the social structures and power dynamics responsible for why things are stuck the way they are. As we mature, the bright eyed optimism gives way to the realities of our world. I don't think this is a philosophy that anyone particularly wants or likes, but many end up converging on nevertheless. People who don't think about it are probably happier, as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss".
By: Geck
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139856/chrome-begins-limiting-ad-blockers/#comment-10440214">timofonic</a>.
To be honest i don't know what exactly happened to people. What i do know is that regardless of what Microsoft does, negligible amount of Windows user base will migrate to GNU/Linux. And regardless of what Google does, negligible amount of Chrome users will migrate to Firefox. As for Apple users, that is not even worth to comment. So yeah, go ahead Google, ban all ad blockers, nobody will do anything meaningful about it if you do.