By: Parodper
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440701">Titanius Anglesmith</a>.
I wonder how it would look like if ReactOS (or a fork) could stopped trying to be Windows-compatible and became an NT fork. It's a shame that the only open source OS with a bit of home usage are all UNIX-like.
By: Alfman
Gert-Jan,
<blockquote>Somehow we are accepting this for smartphones; 2-3 years of updates if you’re lucky. Vendors should be forced to open-source their device-specific software and documentation as soon as a smartphone reaches end of support. Or even better: they should be forced to actively support (hardware, info, money) open source alternatives when they don’t offer the 8-10 year support themselves.</blockquote>
+1
This will not happen, but if it could be mandated it would solve the problem in one of two ways:
1) FOSS would be able to support legacy hardware that's out of support, which is a win.
2) Manufacturers who don't want to release FOSS would be compelled to support their hardware for a full decade.
I'd prefer #1 myself, but even #2 would be an improvement over where the industry is at today.
By: Gert-Jan
This is an ecological disaster. I'm surprised that there's not more backlash or revolt against these plans.
At work, an action is starting to upgrade laptops to W11 when possible; all older hardware that still runs W10 just fine will be replaced.
Of the 5 laptops at home (parents + kids in highschool/university), 3 can't run W11 but are otherwise just fine. MS Office is important for all, so moving to an open source OS is not really an option (yes I know about LibreOffice, and wearing a FreeBSD t-shirt as I write this ;).
Do I now need to buy 3 new laptops, the price to pay for Windows security updates after 2025?
It is not as if W11 is bringing new interesting functionality; Windows is an OS that allows me to run the applications that are important to me.
I do like the idea of companies being forced to support hardware for >10 years, or forced to release their software as open source whenever they decide to break something I own without offering an acceptable alternative (I cannot continue to use W10; it becomes unsafe).
Somehow we are accepting this for smartphones; 2-3 years of updates if you're lucky. Vendors should be forced to open-source their device-specific software and documentation as soon as a smartphone reaches end of support. Or even better: they should be forced to actively support (hardware, info, money) open source alternatives when they don't offer the 8-10 year support themselves.
By: asupcb
My laptop has an Intel CPU (i7-7700HQ) and nVidia GPU (1050Ti 4GB) It still works great. It is about the same performance level of the Steam Deck so there is no reason to replace it at this point in time. It has TPM 2.0. It can not be legitimately upgraded to Windows 11, per Microsoft’s standard for Windows 11. It does not fall beyond Microsoft’s arbitrary cut off point.
This should be illegal. This kind of forced obsolescence is bad for the environment and anti consumer. Every piece of electronics should be required to have 10 years of security updates provided from the time of the last sale of the product as a new product. This should be stipulated for all component providers and not just the manufacturer who puts the product together into a final end user product. If a company goes bankrupt, exits the relevant market, etc; then they should be forced to open source their software and copyright so that others can continue to support their product.
As for my laptop, assuming that Microsoft doesn’t relent and increase their support window in some way, I will probably be installing either Linux Mint or Fedora on it.
By: Kochise
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440700">smashIt</a>.
And how many PC you cannot convert to Win 11 due to stupid MS requirements (TPM being one of many) despite being fully capable. My current laptop (Ryzen 5 2500) being one of many instances of such bad decision that doesn't favor wider adoption of the latest Windows' incarnation.
But still wondering what those new version of Windows really bring of added value, beside new "Look n'feel" that nobody requested (but MS marketing). I would have stayed to Windows 2000/XP provided the kernel was updated and the drivers followed.
Because I don't do much more ever since then. Just faster CPU, more screens and storage, and that's pretty much it.
By: sloth
"I’m not going to make any predictions, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft will simply be forced by, well, reality to extend the official support for Windows 10 well beyond 2025"
I really hope you are right! I've just about got Win10 bashed into a decent shape with Start Menu replacements and TweakUI etc....
By: jbauer
It's always the same story, but the reality is that the old version will get abandoned no matter what and the new one will get adopted. You can always count on the new one to be even more intrusive.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440724">dark2</a>.
dark2,
<blockquote>Dunno, but most people’s issue is with the tabletization of the start menu. No one asked for the Android app menu. It appears to be a conflict of interest because pretty much all Surface PCs are tablets,</blockquote>
I agree. The old start menus worked well and people didn't ask for these changes, but now there's a lot more space to put ads and it seems likely to have been a consideration. If they listened to users, arguably windows would be better for us, but worse for them :(
By: dark2
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440710">Alfman</a>.
Dunno, but most people's issue is with the tabletization of the start menu. No one asked for the Android app menu. It appears to be a conflict of interest because pretty much all Surface PCs are tablets, and Microsoft would rather give them an android like start menu while screwing everyone else.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440706">dark2</a>.
dark2,
<blockquote>They could easily go back to the old start menu design and get tons of users to upgrade, but ads are more important I guess.</blockquote>
Are the ads any worse in windows 11 than windows 10?
I've seen some ads in windows 10 (both full screen and injected into some microsoft UIs) and I always go to disable them, but I find that windows updates keeps reverting my settings back to the default annoying ones. Clearly microsoft don't respect their user's choices. Frankly nobody should be surprised by this because they want to extract as much revenue as they can. Still though, it just sucks for consumers that this ad infestation is slowly but surely turning computing into the next cable TV. Ads will not only get worse with time, but I expect that the methods of disabling such annoyances are going to become more crippled. Ads are just going to be the norm.
By: dark2
They could easily go back to the old start menu design and get tons of users to upgrade, but ads are more important I guess.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/139964/microsoft-starts-beating-the-windows-11-pr-drum-in-face-of-reluctant-windows-10-users/#comment-10440701">Titanius Anglesmith</a>.
Titanius Anglesmith,
<blockquote>Windows 11 and the fake hardware ‘requirements’ warrant an investigation. They’re trying to scam a huge number of users into throwing away perfectly good hardware and that is a crime against the environment.</blockquote>
I was going to say something along these lines too. Since microsoft stopped selling windows upgrades, it created a motive to enforce planned obsolescence in windows that did not exist before. Now that microsoft are in the business of deprecating hardware to increase new OEM sales, it's bad for consumers, it's awful for the environment, but MS are hoping consumers will open their wallets. But IF enough users hold out (by sticking with older versions of windows to support old hardware, this could become a bigger issue for microsoft. Their only supported operating system may end up loosing so much ground that they will be forced to change course.
Thom said "I’m not going to make any predictions, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft will simply be forced by, well, reality to extend the official support for Windows 10 well beyond 2025." but I don't expect microsoft will do because it doesn't benefit microsoft long term. I think it's more likely they'll officially support windows 11 on the hardware they arbitrarily deprecated (I predicted this might happen years ago). After all, it already works as users who've bypassed the checks can attest to and it wouldn't take much effort to change the policy. This would give windows 11 a boost from the substantial number of users who are officially not welcome to install windows 11 on their hardware. Microsoft may have to learn that turning hundreds of millions users away is not good for business.
By: Geck
When not even Windows users want to use Windows any more. Strange world we live in.
By: Titanius Anglesmith
I've been running Windows 11, but it needed some serious alterations to make it a bit usable. I had to use the command line to DISM remove a lot of 'features', and I needed to install a shell replacement (StartAllBack) because the taskbar had been butchered.
The stupid thing is, underneath Windows is a great system. Years ago I've worked on a software system that ran on Windows Embedded and I've always been amazed by how modular Windows is. Without all the adware and 'AI' crêpe, it can be a nice operating system.
Windows 11 and the fake hardware 'requirements' warrant an investigation. They're trying to scam a huge number of users into throwing away perfectly good hardware and that is a crime against the environment.
Somehow, I had expected Google to take advantage of this by promoting ChromeOS Flex as a Windows 10 successor, but I don't think Google has any idea of what they're doing anymore either. All tech companies are too distracted by the AI Kool-Aid to notice what users actually want to do with their computers.
By: smashIt
"Data shows that 70% of Windows users are still using Windows 10, and this percentage has proven to be remarkably resilient,"
It's even worse than that.
Win 10 has in the past month gained marketshare.
The fact that new PCs are shiped with Win 11 should result in a steady increase in marketshare for Win 11.
But more PCs are converted to Win 10 than are sold with Win 11.
Thats a Win 8 level disaster!
And I love every second of it ;D