By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441482">Alfman</a>.
kurkosdr,
<blockquote>Sure, but there is a big difference between trusting Mozilla and trusting some anonymous guy in a shed pushing binaries to the world.</blockquote>
Tell that to the people running various browser forks.
Let's say, hypothetically, that a browser maker pushed unpopular restrictions on the APIs used by adblockers. Some new fork might come along and remove those restrictions. You'd be free to criticize this fork and their users for "trusting some anonymous guy in a shed pushing binaries to the world" but at the end of the day it's up to them whether to trust the new fork or not.
For better or worse all software binaries require us to trust the publisher and I for one don't necessarily agree that the big brands deserve more of it like you imply.
<blockquote>You can theoretically clone the source code repo and build it yourself, but let’s see how easy it is to do that for Firefox and whether a tutorial ever exists for it.</blockquote>
That actually sounds like a good idea to me.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441492">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
Bill Shooter of Bul,
<blockquote>Because Linux exists and works great on older hardware. I don’t consider it to be very difficult to install modern linux distros. If you can graduate highschool you should be able to do it.</blockquote>
I think there's a bit of miscommunication here. It's clear now you are talking about the OS, but I actually also read your comment as cevvalkoala did as a commentary on using old hardware rather than old software.
By: kurkosdr
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441482">Alfman</a>.
<blockquote>Practically everything on windows comes as binaries downloaded off of arbitrary websites you have to trust, I’d say the answer is a definitive yes.</blockquote>
Sure, but there is a big difference between trusting Mozilla and trusting some anonymous guy in a shed pushing binaries to the world.
You can theoretically clone the source code repo and build it yourself, but let's see how easy it is to do that for Firefox and whether a tutorial ever exists for it.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441481">Alfman</a>.
kurkosdr,
<blockquote>My luck has been good so far, probably because I use apps that don’t do weird stuff, but please notify me whether the issue is Microsoft breaking some part of the win32 api or the app itself doing weird stuff and chocking on the new Windows 11 visual style</blockquote>
I don't think theming is involved but at this point I simply don't know the cause.
Anyway, I'm aware that I encounter more issues simply because my role increases my level of exposure to these problems. Part of my job is to take calls when things break. Those who aren't having problems are not calling me to tell me they're not having problems even if they statistically make up the large majority.
By: Bill Shooter of Bul
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441485">cevvalkoala</a>.
Because Linux exists and works great on older hardware. I don't consider it to be very difficult to install modern linux distros. If you can graduate highschool you should be able to do it.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441482">Alfman</a>.
kurkosdr,
<blockquote>Do you trust binaries made by some random guy in a shed though?</blockquote>
Practically everything on windows comes as binaries downloaded off of arbitrary websites you have to trust, I'd say the answer is a definitive yes.
By: NaGERST
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441458">kurkosdr</a>.
latest version of firefox now works fine on windows 7 with latest version of wine for windows. Have had no troubles so far.
By: NaGERST
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441457">Alfman</a>.
Considering that Supremium has taken almost 1% of the desktop market (just chrome that works with 7, vista and XP) it seems unlikely.
And remember that all of china and north korea is mostly reported as whatever the government wnts it to be reported as.
If you have ever visited china you know... yeah there is mandatory spyware on everything, and it is illegal to remove, and only versions aproved by the government can be installed.
Yeah both claim to be communist, neither care about the collective NOR the individual, so i have no idea what they are now or ever were. Authoritarion, sure, but having the end goal to keep power is not an end goal that can be maintained.
By: cevvalkoala
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441475">Bill Shooter of Bul</a>.
Why not sympathetic to the first one? They avoid producing e-waste as long as they can.
By: kurkosdr
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441482">Alfman</a>.
Do you trust binaries made by some random guy in a shed though?
By: kurkosdr
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441481">Alfman</a>.
My luck has been good so far, probably because I use apps that don't do weird stuff, but please notify me whether the issue is Microsoft breaking some part of the win32 api or the app itself doing weird stuff and chocking on the new Windows 11 visual style.
Also, a good thing with Windows is that it gives you a saving throw in the form of "compatibility mode" (which also allows you to disable visual styles). Obviously when it comes to supported apps telling customers to use "compatibility mode" is unacceptable, but for old unsupported apps it can work (I have only used it for Windows 98 apps though, there was also one obscure app that needed WIndows XP compatibility mode due to an uninitialized pointer).
My main gripe about compatibility mode is that Windows 95/98 compatibility mode doesn't unbreak 256-color Direct3D support and DirectDraw support, but that has been a known issue since forever.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441470">kurkosdr</a>.
kurkosdr,
<blockquote>the problem is that the “master” version of Firefox will further and further diverge from the codebase of the ESR branch of version 115, so eventually the ESR branch of version 115 will have to be retired</blockquote>
Yes, but most users don't care if they're running ESR 115. Unless new versions of firefox are dependent on windows 10/11 features, then it's shouldn't be too hard to build the latest version of FF for windows 7. Mozilla might not support this, but since it's open source somebody else could if there's demand.
By: Alfman
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441473">kurkosdr</a>.
kurkosdr,
Since we have a recurring discussion about windows application compatibility & support, I wanted to update you on a new development :)
Just today I had a meeting going over an application regression in windows 11. Some of the colors in a dialog box are missing. I have yet to diagnose it and have no idea why it would happen, I don't use windows 11 and didn't see it, but sure enough some of the colors are missing on windows 11. The software is supported, so whatever the issue turns out to be we'll fix it, but the things that can break after upgrading windows are so surprising and mysterious, haha.
By: Bill Shooter of Bul
I'm trying to think through the scenarios as to why some one would still be on them.
+ I bought it 15 years ago and still works crowd, who use it out of sheer inertia and no better reason.
+ I run customized software that is the lifeblood of my company and its too expensive to purchase a newer version for a newer version of windows.
+ My company ( or my family) has razor, razor thin margins and all hardware is on the verge of collapse and when something dies its ebay/facebook/craigslist replaced. Security is not a concern, a ransomware attack means I buy another barely functioning computer. I stay on windows because thats what it comes with.
I guess I'm sympathetic to the last two. I've lived both of those lives. Luckily the operating system in question for #2 was not network connected.
By: kurkosdr
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441472">kurkosdr</a>.
(forgot to say that the Windows XP box is the place you should run your win16 stuff on if you don't have a Windows 98SE box, since your Windows 7 box will probably be 64-bit)
By: kurkosdr
In reply to <a href="https://www.osnews.com/story/140183/mozilla-opts-to-extended-windows-7-8-8-1-support/#comment-10441472">kurkosdr</a>.
Quick retro lookup chart:
- Windows 98SE -> Last version of Windows to be backwards compatible with Windows 9x apps and games and with MS-DOS all the way down to MS-DOS 1.1 (you will have to reboot to MS-DOS mode for non-DPMI apps and games though), also, last version of Windows to be compatible with Windows 9x drivers obviously
- Windows XP -> Last version of Windows to be backwards compatible with Windows NT 5.x drivers and generally a good option for devices with 32-bit-only drivers (since most of them target WinXP 32-bit), also last version of Windows to support full-screen MS-DOS apps*, also, rarely some win32 apps won't work on Vista/7 and need Windows XP specifically.
- Windows 7 -> Last version of Windows to have secrdrv and CableCard support (though Windows 8.1 with a Pro Pack can be used for that, in fact it's what I did in order to avoid installing hacked Windows 7 ESU on my systems, and yes, I really purchased a Windows 8.1 Pro Pack from eBay)
*I know you can install XPDM drivers on Windows VIsta/7 to get full screen MS-DOS apps, but don't, it will break apps that need WDDM drivers