The European Commission said on Thursday it will need to spend a number of weeks analysing the information that Microsoft has presented in its hearing before making a final decision on whether the company will be fined for not complying with a 2004 antitrust ruling. The hearing, which is taking place on Thu and Fri, gives Microsoft an opportunity to argue why it believes it has complied with the ruling.
I think it’d be absolutely hilarious if Microsoft just thumbed its nose at the EU and completely pulled out of the European market. Businesses and users all over Europe that rely on Windows/Office/whatever would go berserk and rage on the EU for its silliness. And then the EU would be like “OMG sorry” and ask for Microsoft to come back.
Of course, that won’t happen in reality, but it’s funny to imagine.
Uh, no. First, that would be a huge income loss for Microsoft. Europe is a huge market, its combined economies are larger than that of the U.S. (and unlike the U.S., it’s not mired in a record-breaking deficit spiralling out of control).
Second, such an event would spur the development of viable alternatives. This would be the best thing that ever happened to OS X, Linux and Solaris.
There would be little adverse effect for the EU because they already have copies of the software and don’t need to upgrade (despite the Kool-Aid that MS would like us to drink).
I think your admiration of all things Microsoft is clouding your judgement here.
First of all, I said I knew it wouldn’t happen in reality — so no need to get all uppity about it.
Second, the utopian F/OSS Crusader view is that everyone would finally find themselves free of “Microsoft’s chains”, and gladly march over to the Linux/Apple side. Again, the reality … it won’t happen. It would have already by now.
Oh, and I know that professional support is not exactly a popular concept in the Linux-DIY world … but yeah, a lot of big-name companies depend on the company that sold them the software being around to provide updates and support.
How do you know that it would already have happened by now?
I’m not sure what your point is by mentioning support, but you can get support for free software. And any company could adapt if they suddenly needed to change software or software vendors. If MS died tomorrow, the world would go on, companies would change and adapt.
Oh, and I know that professional support is not exactly a popular concept in the Linux-DIY world
You were sarcastic, right? Right?
No, I’m not.
Where is Novell’s support for their 10-year-old product? Mandriva’s? Red Hat’s?
Where is MS’s support for their 10-year-old product? Win98? NT4?
I don’t know about NT 4.0 (I believe all support was cut off at its 7-year mark), but Microsoft’s Windows support lifecycle is now 5 years main-stream, and then 5 years extended.
So there’s your answer — sort of.
So again, can I expect Novell/Mandriva/SuSE to support their products from 2000 up until 2010?
Ahh…so if I purchased Windows98 in 2000, then it would be unsupported in 2010?
But seriously, if you choose to run a particular system for 10 years, can you really expect support for such an archaic version from any supplier? I wouldn’t expect either commercial or foss vendors to provide that. No doubt though, you’d have a much better chance of getting updates for your old OS from the Open source crowd, since the code is still out there. Pay enough cash and you’ll find someone willing to support you and your environment. Try that on with MS and see how far you get. No amount of money will convince them to create a service pack for you.
The biggest difference, obviously, is that with FOSS the software itself is provided at no cost. Why stay with an outdated, unsupportable environment when there are modern, fully stable and tested alternatives, complete with support options?
Furthermore, open source is an open market: a third party could be able to provide support for that 10 years old OS even if the original vendor stop supporting it.
Wow … nice attempt at turning the tables.
> But seriously, if you choose to run a particular system for 10 years, can you really expect support for such an archaic version from any supplier? I wouldn’t expect either commercial or foss vendors to provide that.
Uh, yes, you can. All the big-name software companies that provide enterprise software support their stuff for 5-10 years. Business objects does 6-7 years, for instance. Microsoft, as I already stated, does 10.
Hiring some independant developer to hack at your enterprise-level app once the company you bought it from cuts off support just won’t fly with any business. Sorry.
Hell, you *are* joking with that entire post, aren’t you? I don’t think you have any comprehension of how big-name business and big-name software operate, or what they expect.
Microsoft’s Windows support lifecycle is now 5 years main-stream, and then 5 years extended.
What does “extended” mean? How much does it cost? Are you sure that if you go see Mandriva and offer them the same amount of money they won’t offer the same amount of support? Did you check beforehand, or is this your usual unsubstantiated allegations?
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=lifecycle
Oops. I guess Google is your friend. It would keep you from frothing at the mouth before you get a clue.
“Extended” support is basically free security updates, no feature requests, no non-security hotfixes unless you pay for them. Do you think Mandriva would offer me 10 years of free security updates? I’m not so sure.
So if a company doesn’t support their product for 10 years they don’t support it?
Clearly, you have issues…
RedHat’s support cycle is 5 years. After which you are expected to upgrade. That’s how theirs works. I’ve never met anyone using it who thinks that’s in any way unreasonable. They basically get 3 years, 2 at least, to upgrade to the next version before their support cuts out.
Microsoft almost has to go 10 years these days. Their 5 year cycle on XP is almost up and they have yet to release a successor.
Their extended support is mediocre. It basically means they’ll fix anything that’s easy to fix. Anything complex will get left unfixed.
http://secunia.com/advisories/13645/
The workaround is not to visit those websites. Now, is this a big deal? No, people have had plenty of time to upgrade.
There is so much wrong with your post, so I guess I’ll start at the top.
> RedHat’s support cycle is 5 years. After which you are expected to upgrade.
Linux fans would cry bloody murder if Microsoft said the same thing — “You are expected to upgrade in 5 years”. Why is it okay for RedHat to do the same?
> I’ve never met anyone using it who thinks that’s in any way unreasonable.
I’ve met people who thought NT 4.0’s 7-year support cycle was unfair, and whined about it. Linux fanboys whine about Microsoft’s support lifecycle even now.
> Microsoft almost has to go 10 years these days.
No, they DO go 10 years. Period.
> Their extended support is mediocre. It basically means they’ll fix anything that’s easy to fix. Anything complex will get left unfixed.
You know this for sure? No, you don’t.
Extended support means that all but the most trivial of security vulnerabilities will be fixed, and the updates issued for free. They will not take feature requests.
You don’t need to go that far back… Windows 2000? And now Windows XP Home?
My opinion is, that lack of support is just tactics to get users (companies or single user) into upgrading.
Do you people selectively ignore the facts, or what? I just pasted links to Microsoft’s support lifecycle page, explaining it all.
Windows 2000 and XP Home are still under support. Geez.
Where is Microsoft’s support for Win95? Win98? NT4?
Not popular, Cygnus, at all, RedHat. Definitely, Linux people, Novell, hate companies, Sun, providing support for free software.
I know I, Canonical, don’t like it when different kinds of, ASL, companies support, Apple, the free software they, Atipa, ship.
Professional support is not a popular concept in any DIY world. How often do you see a gamer on the phone with Dell tech support?
@archiesteel
despite the Kool-Aid that MS would like us to drink
I think your admiration of all things Microsoft is clouding your judgement here.
I think you should put the bong down.
Amen to you, my man.
There would be little adverse effect for the EU because they already have copies of the software and don’t need to upgrade (despite the Kool-Aid that MS would like us to drink).
That’s why I believe the alternatives wouldn’t be much successful than now. After all, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. If they don’t need to upgrade, then why would they waste their time with alternatives?
Anyway, Asia is potentially a bigger market than Europe: it should be the one corporations and hobbyists don’t want to miss.
Wrawrat: That’s why I believe the alternatives wouldn’t be much successful than now. After all, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. If they don’t need to upgrade, then why would they waste their time with alternatives?
I feel this is a good point. However, some people will be upgrading and will need/want to go some place. While they may prefer Microsoft, they wouldn’t be able to do that in this scenario. Would it mean that the developers of these companies would improve WINE (or ReactOS) or port their programs? Not necessarily. The reason being that it would depend on how skilled the developers are who are forced to switch.
However… It would increase the need for a drop-in Windows replacement. As a result even if the developers of the companies that are affected can’t or won’t do much of anything, then there’s a potential for profit for a company that will. This could encourage people who DO have the skills to make WINE (or ReactOS or whatever) better.
Also… There’s the problem of how it would look to the rest of the world. Other countries would trust Microsoft even less than they do now. This is important since it may cause these other countries to start looking at alternatives a little closer even if Microsoft is still selling to them.
Linux would get a boost, but especially Wine and ReactOS would be turned into compatible products. Also the other way round, applications would be made compatible with Wine & ReactOS quickly.
For many applications, it can be done within months….
Microsoft monopoly problem solved, competition restored. Globally.
Microsoft itself would be in big trouble, they are bound by their own support contracts.
Yes, absolutely hilarious
Edited 2006-03-30 22:59
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=14179&comment_id=109813
I won’t bother repeating the same thing here.
I’d be interested to see what would happen. I imagine the EU has a trick up its sleeve for that problem.
And there was no reason to vote the parent down. Quit voting with your politics people. And don’t vote this up either!
I would to if some corrupt government starts telling me what I can and cannot put in MY software I am developing.
Screw EU until they get a clue.
I have never defended Microsoft before, but I will say that the EU is trying to act like a bully in this case, and trying to “prove” that they are really meaningfull. If I were Bill Gates, I’d tell the EU to kiss my a$$. I’d then close down every single MS office in the EU. In this instance, MS is being treated unfairly by a power hungry EU who is just out to show “that American company” that they can be bossed around.
“f I were Bill Gates, I’d tell the EU to kiss my a$$. I’d then close down every single MS office in the EU”
If you were Bill Gates you would do exactly what he’s doing now, begging the US government to help him on that case because you would know it could cost you a lot of money. Europe is Microsoft’ cash cow, they won’t never leave Europe and even if they did, nobody would cry for them, really !
“MS is being treated unfairly ”
Any proof of that ? No ? Then Microsoft is treated fairly.
You use windows? Then you must pay your copy and there’s nothing wrong about that.
You broke EU antitrust law ? Then you must pay the price of your behavior and there’s nothing wrong about that neither.
Any proof of that ? No ? Then Microsoft is treated fairly.
These proposed fines are based upon the assessment of Microsoft’s competitors that it isn’t providing sufficient interop documentation for its products. Of course the competitors are going to say that: They’re doing everything they can to stymie Microsoft’s progress in Europe, including work hand-in-hand with the EU-hired consultant who assessed the documentation. That simply isn’t fair. Emails between the consultant and Microsoft’s competitors bear that out.
You broke EU antitrust law ? Then you must pay the price of your behavior and there’s nothing wrong about that neither.
This isn’t about whether MS “broke EU antitrust law”. It’s simply about compliance with an EU ruling — and whether MS has done that. Given the conduct of the EU consultant and Microsoft’s competitors, it throws into question how objective this guy is.
!!!
“If I were Bill Gates, I’d tell the EU to kiss my a$$. I’d then close down every single MS office in the EU. In this instance, MS is being treated unfairly by a power hungry EU who is just out to show “that American company””
—
Good american patriot… sonny boy!
Maybe the pentagon should send a couple of nuclear missiles tho the EU administration too…
Well, what Bill Gates has been telling for too long to the EU is: ‘kiss my a$$’, actually. Now the EU is saying to Bill: NOT anymore!, but do not worry, actually the EU is being very soft and slow with Bill… ( cause they know Sam is behind)
And if you ‘close down every single MS office in the EU’, prepare yourself for a bankrupcy in the biggest US software corporation.. LOL
Then half of the Ms programmers would go to programm for Free-OpenSource companies, and the other half would illegally migrate to Mexico to collect potatos and peyote as black labour force…
So, Yes. It would not be a bad Idea if Bill follow your wise advices and would ‘close down every single MS office in the EU’.. LOL
P.S. …when you grow up and go to the university, you could thing of studying economics, law… There is something called “Compettion Law”. Take it.
!!!
is the eu still charging ms even during their review of the new data?
After all, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. If they don’t need to upgrade, then why would they waste their time with alternatives?
Well, they would want to upgrade at some time. Remember, this is following Tom K’s illogical scenario.
Maybe they’d want the sweet eye candy of the upcoming xgl-based distros…
As far as Asia is concerned, Linux has gotten a good foothold there.
I think you should put the bong down.
Oooh, what a convincing argument. I must bow before such intellectual prowess. Truly, I am convinced of your mental fortitude.
Seriously.
There are a lot of communist nazis that should be fought in the EU.
What a shithole.
That’w what happens when you let communist nazis get control of a country
“communist nazis”
Nothing I can say could make this any more hilarious than it already is. “Communist Nazis”. Heh.
Communist nazis is pretty apropos. That explains alot about the EU.
There are lots of open source nazis too. OSAlert is full of them.
Please, dont stop posting. Your ignorance is quite entertaining.
“communist nazis” as someone else pointed out, these two words don’t mean nothing when they’re used like you did… It’s just pointing out your lack of culture !
Not to talk about the fact it’s insulting, and that neither France nor any other country deserves such treatment…
I wouldn’t like to be as close-minded as you are …..
GStepper, your defense of communism just shows your european fascist roots.
“defense of communism” ? 8-0
Could you please quote the words that prove I defended communism or nazism ? LOL
Please explain what is a “communist nazi” ? re LOL
Could you name a single person in the French goverment who could directly or inderectly be designed as “communist nazi” ? Again LOL !
Indeed, you’re really funny as I really laugh reading your posts ….
[edit: typo]
Edited 2006-03-31 16:42
Please, people, do not feed the troll.
I maybe wrong here, but I was under the impression communism and nazism is two ideals that are both on opposite poles, one cannot be both communist and a nazi
Indeed, you are right, they are pretty much as opposed as you can get. I’m just urging people not to respond to CanuckleFrog’s obvious trolls.
fascism and communism are the same thing. Both are self-righteous socialists trying to enslave the world. Look at how great Cuba turned out. While Pinochet was reforming his country, Castro was wrecking Cuba and making sure they’d never evolve past the 50ies.
“fascism and communism are the same thing”
No they are not. They are on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.
“Both are self-righteous socialists trying to enslave the world.”
Fascism isnt solialism. Maybe you’re thinking of nazism but even though they had the word “socialist” in their name they dont really have much to do with socialism.
“While Pinochet was reforming his country, Castro was wrecking Cuba and making sure they’d never evolve past the 50ies.”
I guess by “reforming” you mean “wrecking and making sure it never evolved past the 50’s”
Cuba isnt socialist btw, it’s communist and as most communist countries they managed to misunderstand and twist pretty much everything Marx and Engels wrote.
You’re gonna leave OSAlert to go back to Slashdot?
You’re gonna leave OSAlert to go back to Slashdot?
OSAlert have become Slashdot, not much of a difference.
fascism and communism are the same thing.
Uh, no they are not. Read up a bit on it before talking.
Hint: socialists and communists were hunted down by the nazis and fascists in the years prior to WWII.
<>Both are self-righteous socialists trying to enslave the world.[/i]
Fascists are not socialists, in fact they are quite corporation-friendly. Private interests made lots and lots of money in Fascist Spain and Italy, as well as Nazi Germany.
Fascism is at the Extreme Right, while Communism is at the Extreme Left. What you probably mean to say that is that fascist and communist states are authoritarian, but to go on and say they’re the same thing is like saying that Christianity and Islam are the same thing. In other words, it’s quite an uneducated thing to say.
Look at how great Cuba turned out. While Pinochet was reforming his country, Castro was wrecking Cuba and making sure they’d never evolve past the 50ies.
I’m sorry, but did you just defend Pinochet? The guy who had political opponents assassinated and dissidents dropped by helicopter into the ocean?
Riiiight.
As far as Cuba goes, it’s not Fidel’s policies that have wrecked Cuba, it’s the U.S. embargo. Everyone but die-hard right-wing nutjobs understands this.
Go back under your bridge, troll.
@archiesteel
Hint: socialists and communists were hunted down by the nazis and fascists in the years prior to WWII.
Nazis were socialists.
lmao
PWNED pew pew
Nazis were socialists
No they weren’t. If you think that they were because “nazi” stands for “national socialism”, then you must also believe that the People’s Democratic Republic of Korea is Democratic.
The nazis were pro-business, pro-Christian and diametrically opposed to socialists in pre-WWII Germany. Learn some history, else you’re bound to continue “pwining” yourself.
Microsoft implictly accepted European “EULA” (laws
when they decided to sell their products in Europe. Whether the rules are good or not is irrelevant, Microsoft accepted them without any restrictions/limitations.
They did NOT respect the rules. And I personaly hope that their antitrust fines will not look like a slap on the wrist. European justice got hold on till
Microsoft complies to E.U laws. IMO that could be good for the whole software industry.
The U.S and E.U have both laws against antitrust. And I hope the E.U will not respond as U.S did.
“Frothing at the mouth”? Hardly, though of course I’m used to your perpetual ad hominem attacks. Civilized discourse is apparently beyond your reach.
As others have mentioned, it’s free security updates for things that are easy to fix. That’s hardly what I call real support.
Mandriva, on the other hand, offers their updates (security and otherwise) free of charge. Linux’s modular nature makes it so that you can have the latest, secure software package running on an earlier distro. Of course, if these depend on core packages, clients will have to upgrade the distro as well – however, unlike MS, this upgrade will be free of charge.
Now, instead of talking about hypothetical “doomsday” scenarios (a favorite tactics of yours), can you give us ONE example of a company that was screwed over by Mandriva’s support cycle? Or any other Linux distro, for that matter.
Just a question: if you and CanuckleFrog are not happy here, why do you keep coming?
…I’ve failed to follow my own advice and responded to the troll. Tsk tsk.