Sorry, I have to say this… Its so nice to have Eugenia around! Pure news, no bashing, no childish attacks, just the OS news, plain and simple. Thom has a lot to learn…
Look, they are human, they have opinions, they have their little quirks. They are no different from us. Do they link to the stories we want to read? Yes. Do they sometimes link to ones we don’t? Yes.
For the rest, let it go, and never let it get personal.
haha! I’m sorry, but I find this comment a bit ironic. When Eugenia was at the helm, folks used to keep complaining about her and how she was running the show… (from what I understand, it was a big reason why she left the job)
Oh well, if there’s one thing about alot of tech folk I come across, they do like to complain. The internet just seems to exaserbate that (and so many other things)
Indeed. An awful lot of us developers thought Apple was going to switch entirely to the “polished metal” theme seen in iLife ’06.
Of course, that could be one of the as-yet-to-be-seen secret features in Leopard, but it does seem rather daft that Apple would entirely scrap a theme it only introduced at the start of 10.4
“The Safari Inline search is a nice addition too. ”
Nice… but it’s funny when they bash Microsoft for copying them (Windows Calendar – iCal) then they copy Firefox’s inline search and they put the search box under the tabbar. Oh yes, it’s completely different.
Personally I thinnk that the search method in Camino has Firefox and Safari beaten hands down.
Just start typing and as long as you’re not in a field on the page or a toolbar, the search starts automatically… Then just command-g to skip through the hits…
This argument of Copying is a little bit over-used and abused. You just can’t actually “COPY” that feature, it’s like saying that now MS, Safari, FFOX copied Opera with the Tabs idea…
You just don’t “copy”, in my humble opinion, you just implement the same feature; in the end the benefit goes to the end user.
Or you could say that Firefox copied the idea of extensions from <inser any extensible application you can imagine here>; they clearly didn’t copy the feature, they made use of the concept of an “extension”. So did Winamp with the PlugIns, Trillian, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc….
Different would be if I say that I’ve just created application XXX and “for the first time” I have invented Plugins…
The truth is, what do you care if they copied it? Do you like the implementation more ? good; you don’t? good too..
Anyone noticed that Apple will certify Mac OS X as a TRUE Unix system ?
“Leopard Server is designed to be UNIX compliant and fully compatible with existing UNIX software. Apple intends to submit Leopard Server to The Open Group for certification against the UNIX 03 product standard.”
That would only be one more example that the UNIX tag is nothing more than a label sold to the highest bidder. Nobody actually takes UNIX certification seriously anymore.
Don’t worry, I’m not embittered (is that a real word?). I was fully aware that some Mac troll would come along and mod my post down. The truth does hurt sometimes.
Anyone noticed that Apple will certify Mac OS X as a TRUE Unix system ?
Yes, actually. I mentioned it whenever there was a recent post about OpenBSD being UNIX. After pointing this out, I was unfairly moderated down because people didn’t agree with my posting (I violated none of the OSAlert posting guidelines, yet it got scored -1. Sigh.). See here:
It’s great that Apple has decided to do this. It shows taht they care about their customers, and will help them stay compliant with the standard. It certainly will help developers that have server applications that need to be able to run without as few changes as possible after a recompile on different platforms.
certainly, you have no idea how this works: to be UNIX certified, you will have to pay for the rights to call something UNIX. Nothing else.
Assuming that OS X uses FreeBSD – UNIX-like OS – the magic happened (becoming “true” UNIX) for OS X only because Apple has money in contrast to BSD (they don’t have money).
This is only PR for naive users, who would think that they just got some uber OS.
Whether you like it or not, this will not make OS X more UNIX than BSD. This would require more than license.
Full of the most crazed popups and ads for alleged anti virus stuff that I’ve ever seen, including one that blasts you with ‘you are insecure, your private data is exposed’. Whatever the merits of the article, the site totally defeats them.
Got as far as spaces before giving up.
Thought on Spaces: it is designed to be a wow factor for someone who has never used virtual desktops. You look at it in a store, you’ll say (if you’ve never used one) this is neat. As one who uses them, and has a good record showing naive users how to use them, my reaction was, get this stuff away from me.
But that is the beauty of it and the Apple design. It is made for the majority of Mac users, which *don’t* use virtual desktops or have never used them before. Apple has a flair for taking power features and making it work for everyday users.
So although it may not be good enough for you, it will be a boon for the rest of us…
On your “Thought on Spaces” comment: I use VirtueDesktops on my MacBook, with the cube effect. Spaces looks a bit “pale” (booo! no 3D!!!) but frankly, it does seem a lot more practical for day-to-day work.
I’ve got 4 desktops in Virtue asigned to F1-F4, and I occasionally forget in which desktop the app I’m looking for is. Spaces seems to take advantage of spatial memory, and is definitely something I would like to try.
I hope this means I can scale Eclipse widgets so that I can make the most of my screen. The best way to do this would be to give Eclipse a virtual resolution such that everthing inside the window is scaled to a larger virtual canvas.
Relativating addendum: note the slight tinge of sarcasm, as it’s an evolutionary improvement; I was just making fun of the whodunwhatfirst-tendency some people have.
It’s not quite the same thing. You’ve always been able to search help files in both OSes. How can Apple possbly be copying now? Plus, Apple’s implementation is much more accessible. A lot of windows help files are still using old CHMs which require you to go through the most pointless wizard to create the index, and even then the search results are anything but relevant.
I’ve never(!) seen such a Help Search in the Explorer menu, you are typing and it just appears. In windows you have the help center. That’s all. The things are completly different!
Copying: Widgets and Gadgets – Different? So who’s copying from who.
Am I the only one that finds virtual desktops (“spaces”) useless? The only reason I could think of is to get around having to switch to different windows, although I guess that stopped being an issue once I started using sloppy focus without click-to-raise. Clicking the title bar raises the window and middle clicking sends it to the back; alternatively, I have alt-e and d set up to do the same, where all you need to do is get the mouse pointer in the window.
Yes, focus follows mouse without auto-raise is the way to be. I don’t necessary think that this makes virtual desktops useless… I tend to use virtual desktops on my development machines but not on my personal machines.
I find myself more productive when I have one desktop each for code editors, terminals (local tabbed on left half, remote tabbed on right half), browser/music, and email/messaging. Two simple and not-so-unpleasant tones occasionally cut through the mix of mostly classic/improvisational rock in my headphones to tell me when I have new mail or messages, which never pop up on top of my editors and terminals (I hate that). When I get around to it, I’ll see if it’s simple to let messages pop up over my browser, which I wouldn’t mind.
I use CTRL-ALT-Left/Right to switch workspaces, CTRL-ALT-Up/Dowm to scroll through tabs, and CTRL-ALT-Z-Left/Right to move the focused window (group) across workspaces. This is on fluxbox.
My personal machines use GNOME. I sometimes use two virtual desktops, but only when I have a good reason to do so.
Window management is a very personal and nuanced thing. No amount of usability research will result in a default configuration that makes everybody happy.
I stay away from virtual desktops when coding, as well. I suppose that isn’t so incredibly weird when you consider that I hate tabbed editors/windows. Generally I have a terminal window open on the bottom right corner, various gedit windows scattered about the screen, and the folder open in nautilus in the lower left. Multi-windowed gedit is pretty annoying, though, since it defaults to opening in a new tab, meaning I have to drag the tab out every time I want to open a file.
Am I the only one that finds virtual desktops (“spaces”) useless? The only reason I could think of is to get around having to switch to different windows,
Being a UNIX/Linux user for many years made me totally addicted to virtual desktops.
Usually i need to follow a lot of different works during the day, switching from one to other, so i “group” the windows according to the task they are useful for.
for exampe i have all the developing apps in one desktop, all the comunication stuff (mail, IM, etc) in on other, the admin tasks (remote shells) in an other one and so on.
I think that it mostly depends on personal tastes/habits, but i find Windows and even more OSX unmanageable when you have several application running.
So, I think that having it on OSX is a good thing. People who doesn’t like it are free to not use it, anyway.
You probably are in a minority of people who have used them enough to be used to them. Of course there are different preferences in ways of working.
The way they work in KDE/Gnome you have the ability to move open windows from one to the other, you’ve a small diagrammatic representation on a multiple window icon in the task bar which lets you see what is where, and move them. Then in every open window, you have a tiny pulldown menu at the top left which lets you also move them to the window of your choice.
My experience of what happens when you show people this is that in the abstract, they don’t see the point at all. But when you show them that it means that different windows can remain accessible and open at the same time, without one hiding the other, they see the point at once. The real use is when you are engaged in a couple of tasks on one desktop, perhaps with a couple of windows open on it, and suddenly you want to do something quite different – look something up on the web for instance – that has nothing to do with this task.
The biggest issue new users seem to have with them is that they forget they already have an application open in the other window, and open it again in the one they are in. Then they try to open the document they were already working on, but open it a second time. This is very confusing. So when you’re showing people how to use them you have to warn them about this, and get them used to checking the task bar for open apps. They can do this either by glancing at the window icon, where the apps appear as tiny representations of the desktop, or they can check the taskbar open app area.
If you haven’t spent time using them, you won’t see the point, and if you don’t ever do things which require multiple simultaneous windows and apps open, there really will be no point.
As to these large desktop implementations of virtual desktops, I really cannot see the point. But maybe people will say the same thing: you have to get used to working with them, and you will. However, there has been too little accumulated user experience. The thing with the Gnome/KDE implementation, its evolved through years of experience and use, and it really is fit for purpose.
Oh, I know how they work. In fact, I used to be a heavy virtual desktop user back in my fluxbox days. It’s not so much that I haven’t gotten used to them, but rather that I haven’t any use for them.
“”Spaces” brings virtual desktops to the masses. Not only does it make more sense than Novell’s XGL implementation (as only the windows change, not the desktop, menubar or Dock), but it’s really easy to use and for someone who’s never got into virtual desktops before, it’s a lot more approachable to have it built in:”
These type of things bug me, they go and copy someone elses stuff, and claim it to be a big triumph for mac’s. Also its so much then XGL virtual spaces, wtf, I thought gnome, kde, and just about any ui out there for linux/unix had virtual spaces. I also cant see how there virtual spaces is more practical. It brings it to the “masses”? Whats this guy huffing, just like linux, the mac is an obscure os that no one uses, I only know one person, its my brother.
Hahaha gave me a good laugh, but seriously, lets never hope we analize any mac related products =P I can agree to analyze but analizing is just a bit “on the edge” for me, even though i like the computers i would probably never insert one into my body through any bodily orfice. And if i had to it atleast would not be an entire powermac =P. Hehe laughed so hard almost fell off the chair. (Very poor humor i know, but its 3 in the morning and i havent slept in days)
I don’t understand how XGL’s ‘3D’ virtual desktops would be any more difficult to understand then the ‘flat’ design for MacOSX… the way it’s implemented in OSX has been done before also… I remember a particular Firefox extension which does about the same, but for tabs.
So yes, “Ctrl+Alt+Right/Left Arrow Key” might not be the most intuitive way for switching to another desktop… but you could use a pager or put an arrow icon to the right and left of the screen, right above the taskbar… just an example.
If you mean that Apple knows how to make these features *transparent* for everyone, then I agree.
But I don’t think it would be much more difficult to make the 3D ‘workspaces’ accessible in the same way…
So my point is, it’s not that it’s easier or more difficult because it’s 3D or not, but because easy access has been provided for this particular feature.
Saying that ‘Novell did it wrong, Apple did it right’ is a bit short-sighted IMO (I read that in one of the comments, probably not yours though). Each of these companies should be commended for trying to push the edge of a good User Interface Design.
“But that is the beauty of it and the Apple design. It is made for the majority of Mac users, which *don’t* use virtual desktops or have never used them before. Apple has a flair for taking power features and making it work for everyday users.
So although it may not be good enough for you, it will be a boon for the rest of us…”
Does it mean that in April 2007 when this is released, the owner of an Intel Mac, or anyone else for that matter, will be able to wander into his local outlet and buy a copy of it, as has always been possible for the PPC versions?
I can’t wait for leopard to be released but some features scare me…
Time machine seems to be very promising and I don’t know anything comparable in the windows/free UNIX world.
But at the same time the “We back up EVERYTHING” so “we can restore EVERYTHING” scares me a little bit.. suppose you had viruses, rootkit… This can lead to serious security concern IMO. But I admit it’s very handy and the UI is great.
Spaces is new to macintoshes and it’s a good thing but personaly I never use VDs on my *NIX boxes… so I really don’t care about.
Indeed I’m more interested In XCode 3.0 and objective-C 2.0 with automatic garbage collector although I don’t think I’ll use garbage collector since:
– a good dev (not me) knows how to deallocate his objects &
– automatic garbage collector is performance consuming unless there is some kind of magic in it which I don’t think (and I don’t beleive in magic BTW).
In fact Leopard seems to be a Tiger++ and It’s fine because OS X is already a very good system. And I’ll NEVER turn back to microsoft products any more…
– a good dev (not me) knows how to deallocate his objects &
– automatic garbage collector is performance consuming
1. It’s true that a good dev should know how to deallocate objects, but when you have complex data structures it may become an hard, time consuming (developing and debugging) and error prone task. Having someone doing it for you for free and without errors is surely a good thing …
2. Deallocation has to occur sooner or later, be it manually or automatically. By the point of view of performance an automatic garbage collector not only has a minimum impact, but in certain condition could be a performance improvement.
Just google for new generation java GC to see what i mean.
Sorry, I have to say this… Its so nice to have Eugenia around! Pure news, no bashing, no childish attacks, just the OS news, plain and simple. Thom has a lot to learn…
Great articles Eugenia! Nice work!
Edited 2006-08-13 18:42
I can’t agree more. So better without Thom…
Sorry Thom but I fully agree – this is more how I remember OSn to be – a good interesting mix of news .
THX Eugenia
EDIT : Yeah expectable improvements .. nice I guess .
But seing these screenshots Im torn back to Linux again because OSX is too colourful & too cute & too much eye candy for me .
What they have implemented is great but Id very quickly get irritated by the “functionality-not-adding” eye candy .
Like the massive colour in iChat or silly 3D stuff in this “Time Machine” .
It almost to me feels as if OSX is getting more & more colourful with each new release .
Edited 2006-08-13 20:05
Tolerance. Tolerance is the name of the game.
Look, they are human, they have opinions, they have their little quirks. They are no different from us. Do they link to the stories we want to read? Yes. Do they sometimes link to ones we don’t? Yes.
For the rest, let it go, and never let it get personal.
haha! I’m sorry, but I find this comment a bit ironic. When Eugenia was at the helm, folks used to keep complaining about her and how she was running the show… (from what I understand, it was a big reason why she left the job)
Oh well, if there’s one thing about alot of tech folk I come across, they do like to complain. The internet just seems to exaserbate that (and so many other things)
Just a few images, nothing spectacular. As the build has leaked to the net you will soon find screenshots everywhere.
Edited 2006-08-13 19:09
Oh well, but if you take a closer look and actually analize the pictures, you’ll find interesting stuff…
The new “Help” stuff is interesting, as normally “help” takes “ages” to load…
The Safari Inline search is a nice addition too.
Important to mention is the appearance of a lot of applications with Unified Look and the dissapareance of some Metal UIs.
Indeed. An awful lot of us developers thought Apple was going to switch entirely to the “polished metal” theme seen in iLife ’06.
Of course, that could be one of the as-yet-to-be-seen secret features in Leopard, but it does seem rather daft that Apple would entirely scrap a theme it only introduced at the start of 10.4
“The Safari Inline search is a nice addition too. ”
Nice… but it’s funny when they bash Microsoft for copying them (Windows Calendar – iCal) then they copy Firefox’s inline search and they put the search box under the tabbar. Oh yes, it’s completely different.
Personally I thinnk that the search method in Camino has Firefox and Safari beaten hands down.
Just start typing and as long as you’re not in a field on the page or a toolbar, the search starts automatically… Then just command-g to skip through the hits…
Uh… that’s how I search text in firefox. You just have to activate it in Preferences->Advanced.
It’s not on by default because being so different it could be confusing for new users.
This argument of Copying is a little bit over-used and abused. You just can’t actually “COPY” that feature, it’s like saying that now MS, Safari, FFOX copied Opera with the Tabs idea…
You just don’t “copy”, in my humble opinion, you just implement the same feature; in the end the benefit goes to the end user.
Or you could say that Firefox copied the idea of extensions from <inser any extensible application you can imagine here>; they clearly didn’t copy the feature, they made use of the concept of an “extension”. So did Winamp with the PlugIns, Trillian, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc….
Different would be if I say that I’ve just created application XXX and “for the first time” I have invented Plugins…
The truth is, what do you care if they copied it? Do you like the implementation more ? good; you don’t? good too..
Anyone noticed that Apple will certify Mac OS X as a TRUE Unix system ?
“Leopard Server is designed to be UNIX compliant and fully compatible with existing UNIX software. Apple intends to submit Leopard Server to The Open Group for certification against the UNIX 03 product standard.”
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/more.html
I am waiting then anyone saying that Mac OS X is not Unix. Linux bashing on the way =)
That would only be one more example that the UNIX tag is nothing more than a label sold to the highest bidder. Nobody actually takes UNIX certification seriously anymore.
I don’t think so. If Apple want to certify Mac OS X as Unix, it is because people takes it seriously.
Don’t be so embittered. =)
Don’t worry, I’m not embittered (is that a real word?). I was fully aware that some Mac troll would come along and mod my post down. The truth does hurt sometimes.
And you call Mac troll everything that doesn’t think like you ?
Anyone noticed that Apple will certify Mac OS X as a TRUE Unix system ?
Yes, actually. I mentioned it whenever there was a recent post about OpenBSD being UNIX. After pointing this out, I was unfairly moderated down because people didn’t agree with my posting (I violated none of the OSAlert posting guidelines, yet it got scored -1. Sigh.). See here:
http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15475&comment_id=151861
It’s great that Apple has decided to do this. It shows taht they care about their customers, and will help them stay compliant with the standard. It certainly will help developers that have server applications that need to be able to run without as few changes as possible after a recompile on different platforms.
Good info, thanks.
certainly, you have no idea how this works: to be UNIX certified, you will have to pay for the rights to call something UNIX. Nothing else.
Assuming that OS X uses FreeBSD – UNIX-like OS – the magic happened (becoming “true” UNIX) for OS X only because Apple has money in contrast to BSD (they don’t have money).
This is only PR for naive users, who would think that they just got some uber OS.
Whether you like it or not, this will not make OS X more UNIX than BSD. This would require more than license.
Wow! Looks sooooooo clean and refined……good stuff! Can’t wait to used it, very intuitive looking!
k e n
Full of the most crazed popups and ads for alleged anti virus stuff that I’ve ever seen, including one that blasts you with ‘you are insecure, your private data is exposed’. Whatever the merits of the article, the site totally defeats them.
Got as far as spaces before giving up.
Thought on Spaces: it is designed to be a wow factor for someone who has never used virtual desktops. You look at it in a store, you’ll say (if you’ve never used one) this is neat. As one who uses them, and has a good record showing naive users how to use them, my reaction was, get this stuff away from me.
But that is the beauty of it and the Apple design. It is made for the majority of Mac users, which *don’t* use virtual desktops or have never used them before. Apple has a flair for taking power features and making it work for everyday users.
So although it may not be good enough for you, it will be a boon for the rest of us…
Regards,
NeoX
Ads? Popups? What are you using, IE?
Seriously:
Firefox -> Adblock
Camino -> Built-in
Opera -> Built-in
Safari -> Built-in popups blocker, and any of this: http://pimpmysafari.com/plugins/?c=Adblocking
On your “Thought on Spaces” comment: I use VirtueDesktops on my MacBook, with the cube effect. Spaces looks a bit “pale” (booo! no 3D!!!) but frankly, it does seem a lot more practical for day-to-day work.
I’ve got 4 desktops in Virtue asigned to F1-F4, and I occasionally forget in which desktop the app I’m looking for is. Spaces seems to take advantage of spatial memory, and is definitely something I would like to try.
found this on the same site: http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?showtopic=5207
I hope this means I can scale Eclipse widgets so that I can make the most of my screen. The best way to do this would be to give Eclipse a virtual resolution such that everthing inside the window is scaled to a larger virtual canvas.
Ooh, copying Microsoft again I see
Relativating addendum: note the slight tinge of sarcasm, as it’s an evolutionary improvement; I was just making fun of the whodunwhatfirst-tendency some people have.
Edited 2006-08-13 21:06
It’s not quite the same thing. You’ve always been able to search help files in both OSes. How can Apple possbly be copying now? Plus, Apple’s implementation is much more accessible. A lot of windows help files are still using old CHMs which require you to go through the most pointless wizard to create the index, and even then the search results are anything but relevant.
Edited 2006-08-13 21:19
>A lot of windows help files are still using old CHMs which require you to
>go through the most pointless wizard to create the index, and even then
>the search results are anything but relevant.
CHM is the new format. HLP is the old one with the stupid wizard.
I’ve never(!) seen such a Help Search in the Explorer menu, you are typing and it just appears. In windows you have the help center. That’s all. The things are completly different!
Copying: Widgets and Gadgets – Different? So who’s copying from who.
Am I the only one that finds virtual desktops (“spaces”) useless? The only reason I could think of is to get around having to switch to different windows, although I guess that stopped being an issue once I started using sloppy focus without click-to-raise. Clicking the title bar raises the window and middle clicking sends it to the back; alternatively, I have alt-e and d set up to do the same, where all you need to do is get the mouse pointer in the window.
Yes, focus follows mouse without auto-raise is the way to be. I don’t necessary think that this makes virtual desktops useless… I tend to use virtual desktops on my development machines but not on my personal machines.
I find myself more productive when I have one desktop each for code editors, terminals (local tabbed on left half, remote tabbed on right half), browser/music, and email/messaging. Two simple and not-so-unpleasant tones occasionally cut through the mix of mostly classic/improvisational rock in my headphones to tell me when I have new mail or messages, which never pop up on top of my editors and terminals (I hate that). When I get around to it, I’ll see if it’s simple to let messages pop up over my browser, which I wouldn’t mind.
I use CTRL-ALT-Left/Right to switch workspaces, CTRL-ALT-Up/Dowm to scroll through tabs, and CTRL-ALT-Z-Left/Right to move the focused window (group) across workspaces. This is on fluxbox.
My personal machines use GNOME. I sometimes use two virtual desktops, but only when I have a good reason to do so.
Window management is a very personal and nuanced thing. No amount of usability research will result in a default configuration that makes everybody happy.
I stay away from virtual desktops when coding, as well. I suppose that isn’t so incredibly weird when you consider that I hate tabbed editors/windows. Generally I have a terminal window open on the bottom right corner, various gedit windows scattered about the screen, and the folder open in nautilus in the lower left. Multi-windowed gedit is pretty annoying, though, since it defaults to opening in a new tab, meaning I have to drag the tab out every time I want to open a file.
Am I the only one that finds virtual desktops (“spaces”) useless? The only reason I could think of is to get around having to switch to different windows,
Being a UNIX/Linux user for many years made me totally addicted to virtual desktops.
Usually i need to follow a lot of different works during the day, switching from one to other, so i “group” the windows according to the task they are useful for.
for exampe i have all the developing apps in one desktop, all the comunication stuff (mail, IM, etc) in on other, the admin tasks (remote shells) in an other one and so on.
I think that it mostly depends on personal tastes/habits, but i find Windows and even more OSX unmanageable when you have several application running.
So, I think that having it on OSX is a good thing. People who doesn’t like it are free to not use it, anyway.
You probably are in a minority of people who have used them enough to be used to them. Of course there are different preferences in ways of working.
The way they work in KDE/Gnome you have the ability to move open windows from one to the other, you’ve a small diagrammatic representation on a multiple window icon in the task bar which lets you see what is where, and move them. Then in every open window, you have a tiny pulldown menu at the top left which lets you also move them to the window of your choice.
My experience of what happens when you show people this is that in the abstract, they don’t see the point at all. But when you show them that it means that different windows can remain accessible and open at the same time, without one hiding the other, they see the point at once. The real use is when you are engaged in a couple of tasks on one desktop, perhaps with a couple of windows open on it, and suddenly you want to do something quite different – look something up on the web for instance – that has nothing to do with this task.
The biggest issue new users seem to have with them is that they forget they already have an application open in the other window, and open it again in the one they are in. Then they try to open the document they were already working on, but open it a second time. This is very confusing. So when you’re showing people how to use them you have to warn them about this, and get them used to checking the task bar for open apps. They can do this either by glancing at the window icon, where the apps appear as tiny representations of the desktop, or they can check the taskbar open app area.
If you haven’t spent time using them, you won’t see the point, and if you don’t ever do things which require multiple simultaneous windows and apps open, there really will be no point.
As to these large desktop implementations of virtual desktops, I really cannot see the point. But maybe people will say the same thing: you have to get used to working with them, and you will. However, there has been too little accumulated user experience. The thing with the Gnome/KDE implementation, its evolved through years of experience and use, and it really is fit for purpose.
Oh, I know how they work. In fact, I used to be a heavy virtual desktop user back in my fluxbox days. It’s not so much that I haven’t gotten used to them, but rather that I haven’t any use for them.
I wish they’d just use UNO’s all over the OS
“”Spaces” brings virtual desktops to the masses. Not only does it make more sense than Novell’s XGL implementation (as only the windows change, not the desktop, menubar or Dock), but it’s really easy to use and for someone who’s never got into virtual desktops before, it’s a lot more approachable to have it built in:”
These type of things bug me, they go and copy someone elses stuff, and claim it to be a big triumph for mac’s. Also its so much then XGL virtual spaces, wtf, I thought gnome, kde, and just about any ui out there for linux/unix had virtual spaces. I also cant see how there virtual spaces is more practical. It brings it to the “masses”? Whats this guy huffing, just like linux, the mac is an obscure os that no one uses, I only know one person, its my brother.
I use Mac.
How could you forget me?…hehe
Hahaha gave me a good laugh, but seriously, lets never hope we analize any mac related products =P I can agree to analyze but analizing is just a bit “on the edge” for me, even though i like the computers i would probably never insert one into my body through any bodily orfice. And if i had to it atleast would not be an entire powermac =P. Hehe laughed so hard almost fell off the chair. (Very poor humor i know, but its 3 in the morning and i havent slept in days)
I don’t understand how XGL’s ‘3D’ virtual desktops would be any more difficult to understand then the ‘flat’ design for MacOSX… the way it’s implemented in OSX has been done before also… I remember a particular Firefox extension which does about the same, but for tabs.
So yes, “Ctrl+Alt+Right/Left Arrow Key” might not be the most intuitive way for switching to another desktop… but you could use a pager or put an arrow icon to the right and left of the screen, right above the taskbar… just an example.
If you mean that Apple knows how to make these features *transparent* for everyone, then I agree.
But I don’t think it would be much more difficult to make the 3D ‘workspaces’ accessible in the same way…
So my point is, it’s not that it’s easier or more difficult because it’s 3D or not, but because easy access has been provided for this particular feature.
Saying that ‘Novell did it wrong, Apple did it right’ is a bit short-sighted IMO (I read that in one of the comments, probably not yours though). Each of these companies should be commended for trying to push the edge of a good User Interface Design.
“But that is the beauty of it and the Apple design. It is made for the majority of Mac users, which *don’t* use virtual desktops or have never used them before. Apple has a flair for taking power features and making it work for everyday users.
So although it may not be good enough for you, it will be a boon for the rest of us…”
I’m sure most of you already know this, but for those who don’t, apple has a preview piece of Leopard on its website as well:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/
http://web.mac.com/us.r/
Here is a much better preview from installation and on…
http://www.hardmac.com/articles/60/page1/
Does it mean that in April 2007 when this is released, the owner of an Intel Mac, or anyone else for that matter, will be able to wander into his local outlet and buy a copy of it, as has always been possible for the PPC versions?
Yep
I can’t wait for leopard to be released but some features scare me…
Time machine seems to be very promising and I don’t know anything comparable in the windows/free UNIX world.
But at the same time the “We back up EVERYTHING” so “we can restore EVERYTHING” scares me a little bit.. suppose you had viruses, rootkit… This can lead to serious security concern IMO. But I admit it’s very handy and the UI is great.
Spaces is new to macintoshes and it’s a good thing but personaly I never use VDs on my *NIX boxes… so I really don’t care about.
Indeed I’m more interested In XCode 3.0 and objective-C 2.0 with automatic garbage collector although I don’t think I’ll use garbage collector since:
– a good dev (not me) knows how to deallocate his objects &
– automatic garbage collector is performance consuming unless there is some kind of magic in it which I don’t think (and I don’t beleive in magic BTW).
In fact Leopard seems to be a Tiger++ and It’s fine because OS X is already a very good system. And I’ll NEVER turn back to microsoft products any more…
– a good dev (not me) knows how to deallocate his objects &
– automatic garbage collector is performance consuming
1. It’s true that a good dev should know how to deallocate objects, but when you have complex data structures it may become an hard, time consuming (developing and debugging) and error prone task. Having someone doing it for you for free and without errors is surely a good thing …
2. Deallocation has to occur sooner or later, be it manually or automatically. By the point of view of performance an automatic garbage collector not only has a minimum impact, but in certain condition could be a performance improvement.
Just google for new generation java GC to see what i mean.