Guest post by History tends to leave behind mostly two kinds of information – the irrelevant and the biased. Archaeologists are
either digging up people’s thrown away junk, or reading some emperor’s pompous account of his great deeds.
The archaeology of the future will involve carefully extracting random 1s and 0s off of media and theorising what it
all could mean. In the reckless and fast moving digital world, many stumbling blocks have been created that would
drastically inhibit future generations learning about our ancient digital existence.
Sony’s original claim that your CDs would be good forever was a little optimistic. CDs and DVDs, especially
CDRs and DVDRs are susceptible to literal bit-rot. Some cheap CDRs don’t even last five years.
Forgotten sockets will also pose a problem. It’s not very easy to get hold of a board with an EISA slot as it is. Imagine how
hard it is going to be to find a motherboard with PATA in 25 years. Connecting wireless devices that use a
long dead proprietary protocol may be even harder.
More and more, our digital lives are being stored on the Internet. Not everything about a person can be
found on one machine. It would take masses of data collected from numerous sources to hope to build a profile
on a unknown person. In the same vein, having our data scattered far and wide would increase the chances of
at least something being found, rather than all your eggs in one basket.
More and more, operating systems are overstepping the mark with their role in computing. It has become common
for the Operating System to dictate how and where your software will work, or not work. Microsoft Windows
will enter a reduced mode when it detects a change in hardware, and has to be reactivated. There is no
guarantee that in the future, the servers needed to activate an old unsupported version of Windows will even
be around anymore, let alone Microsoft themselves in their current form.
Some operating systems such as Mac OS X or Amiga OS will not boot on anything but their original hardware.
In the near future TPM modules may severely restrict the ability to access old and forgotten data without
the original hardware. Advances in computing in the future may mean that all this can be emulated and hacked,
but that is still based on the notion that some selfless hacker will do the work, because Microsoft, Sony or
Apple certainly won’t.
Companies have been faster to establish themselves in the digital realm then the government, and the law. We
have seen with shocking speed, large corporations move in and start laying down their own laws how they see
fit. If you want their goods, (and you do) you have to agree to any terms they dream up, and there is not
enough governing agencies or laws to protect you in the same way you have protection against unlawful
advertising and practices on the TV and in store.
What’s more, corporations are pushing the government to create laws that protect them and not you,
against these practices. The DMCA means that in North America it is a crime to reverse engineer any
protection schemes to provide interoperability. In the near future, there may be attempts to produce software
or hardware to ensure that data that is falling out of accessibility (due to corporations discontinuing
support for products and services), may be blocked by legal action; ensuring that only the parent company
has the key to unlock your data, and only when it suits them.
It goes without saying that as the speed of processing increases, cracking DRM will be easier, especially if
quantum computing becomes a reality. That said, DRM still places a lock on our digital data, which is getting
increasingly difficult to break, even to the point of being illegal (as above).
Magnetic media fades over time. Though this is obviously stated, it is last in this list for a reason.
Even if solid-state hard disks become common,
the data on them is still subject to many of the problems listed above; namely DRM, and proprietary software
/ formats. The data could be around forever, but that still implies little to its accessibility. Many floppy
disks and magnetic media from the 80s is beginning to fade away already.
Data that never dies
Surely all of this highlights the need for Open Source software like Linux? However, this is still based on
the na"ive assumption that just because the code is open, it will be around forever. People still need to host
and store the code and provide access via the Internet, often underfunded. If you can’t get the code easily anymore,
how open is it?
More so, Linux, and nearly all Open Source software runs on proprietary processors and hardware. It can be recompiled
to run on other arcs, provided that you have the source, the compiler, and the compiler is updated for the new arc.
(and the compiler is compiled and running on the new arc) In the far future, where so much has been changed, even old
Linux source code and data could be so alien to new computers that is no longer usable. That is also based on the
assumption that open source operating systems will even be possible in the future, given the barrage of attacks from
the law, Trusted Computing and proprietary hardware that is protected by DMCA. Open Source software may very well be
either the dominant type of software in the future, or nearly wiped out. Its future is not guaranteed at all just
because it is open.
If you have something you want to say to the future, then you’re better off writing it on a piece of paper and
putting it away safely. The way things are going, we will be lucky if any of our digital data is readable in
100 years, but your piece of paper could easily still be around.
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I’m always amused by the archeology documentary shows where some geek is attaching deep religious significance to every artifact that gets uncovered. What makes archeologists believe that ancient man was any more religious than modern man?
I can only imagine what the archeologists will say 2000 years from now when they dig up one of our toilets. They’ll probably say that that it was an altar of great significance where ancient man spent much time meditating and leaving offerings to his Gods!
What they’ll say about digital artifacts is anybodies guess
They do not need some nice new technology, history of the past is indeed a huge area of pieces – and guess what? It’s a giant puzzle.
In the end, there is nothing different between the past and the future – maybe technology helps to gather certain information but the path is equal … compare it with forensics.
>They’ll probably say that that it was an altar of great significance where ancient man spent much time meditating and leaving offerings to his Gods!
Some do it, others don’t. It’s a puzzle and they do it like a police officer in some murder case. Don’t think of archaeology like mumbo jumbo, it’s a science!
Ontopic,
>If you have something you want to say to the future, then you’re better off writing it on a piece of paper and putting it away safely. The way things are going, we will be lucky if any of our digital data is readable in 100 years, but your piece of paper could easily still be around.
It doesn’t matter, because paper today isn’t of that quality as paper of the past. Many acids are in it and the best method to secure it for future generations is unknown until know.
“It doesn’t matter, because paper today isn’t of that quality as paper of the past. Many acids are in it and the best method to secure it for future generations is unknown until know.”
Agreed. Therefore, one good solution is copying the information from paper to microfiche / microplanfilm / microfilm / rollfilm. To re-read this data, you won’t need a computer, even no electricity – very useful after atomic fallouts. A simple candle and some kind of glasses will project the information from the film.
And remember the tons of data collected by NASA missions from the 60s to the 80s. They’re stored on magnetic tape, but no one is able to process or read them.
Media like CDs and DVDs will go the same way. Without properly functioning drives and software they cannot be read. And if they are “copy protected” (i. e. made unusable under certain conditions), it won’t be better. And some people even copy their data from DVD to DVD in once a year. Wow…
so in the end, the best kind of long term storage is one that can be read by the human eye with little or no aid?
hmm, was there not someone that worked on inscribing text onto metal discs using laser?
“so in the end, the best kind of long term storage is one that can be read by the human eye with little or no aid?”
Yes, I think so, because the (technical) aid for using “modern” stored data won’t be available for long time – “long” in terms of history.
Another possibility is to continously copy data from “old” to “modern” media as soon as they’re invented and in use. Copy music cassettes and video tapes to CD, to hard disk, then the CDs to DVD, and finally the DVDs to… what comes next?
And a word about paper: I’d say it’s one of the top media of data storage today. In the “modern” paperless office, more and more is printed than in any year before. Paperless office… ha!
“hmm, was there not someone that worked on inscribing text onto metal discs using laser?”
I hope he used stainless V2A steel to avoid oxidation.
Therefore, one good solution is copying the information from paper to microfiche / microplanfilm / microfilm / rollfilm.
And people wonder why the hell libraries still “bother” with film and fiche in the digital age. Yes, the film does become a bit more brittle with age, but it’s very durable, and it’s permanent in the sense that it can’t be taken away if the subscription lapses.
It doesn’t matter, because paper today isn’t of that quality as paper of the past. Many acids are in it and the best method to secure it for future generations is unknown until know.
You can buy acid-free paper if you look hard enough. I have some myself.
That aside, the paper that’s lasted from the past is paper that has survived in dry environments. This is one reason ancient parchments turn up when people dig in the Egyptian desert, rather than along the Mediterranean basin.
Personally, I’d inscribe it onto a wet clay tablet, then put it out to dry.
If you were to talk to an archaeologist over a beer, (s)he would tell you that the use of religious significance to label artifacts usually means we have no clue what it really was used for.
Most likely something will survive. Just consider the volume that is produced. But the question is will anyone be able to interpret what the data says even if it is unencrypted? An example is Linear A, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A We cannot deciphered it yet.
yes, indeed. love it. I see…………………….
As the world moves on, it’s hard to imagine anyone’s going to keep an EISA-based something for the keeps sake. The data moves along with the person. From a computer to a computer, from a CD to a hard drive to a DVD to something newer…
The bottom line is – if the data is of any value, it will be restored to a better, safer media, that’s the plus of the digital – you can very easily move it around. And if it has no importance, the carrier will simply be discared and soon recycled into new computers and peripherals.
that takes care of point 1 and 2. unless you run into point 6 backed up by the uniformed goons of point 5.
point 3 and 4 can be taken care of by free software (in the gnu sense) unless point 5 again steps in the way.
in the end, nothing lasts forever (not even mountains).
still, there are allready tv programs lost because its the individual stations task to “archive” them, in contrast to newspapers and librarys.
all in all, i fear that more history will be lost because of deliberate actions of man then the simple fading of technology. old texts exist to this day simply because they have been rewritten in new languages and on new media (papyrus, skins, paper) by anyone, not only those that had the “legal right” to do so…
i wonder what had happened to the writing of some greek thinkers if modern copyright laws was in effect at that time. funny tho. some of the questions that they struggled with at that time are still around today. as more things change, more things stay the same?
Edited 2006-10-26 18:48
> if the data is of any value, it will be restored to a better, safer media,
Sorry but NASA tapes problem show quite clearly that this isn’t true.
That said, I agree that the only way to keep data is to copy them to the new media each time a new media happen, and do it again and again..
But will you grand-children still think that this is valuable data?
I hope you wrote this article on a piece of paper,
‘cos in a 100 years, who know’s what’ll be left of it
cheers
anyweb
You know, paper rot too…
Laminate it (to win some extra time).
I recently acquired an old 486 computer from someone who was about to chuck it on a skip, and i offered to take it off there hands. I still have it and would love to get it on the internet (or just even networked) but guess what, its only got EISA slots. Not one PCI slot at all.
And of course, the one and only EISA network card I had (an old novell ne2000 one as far as i recall) was given away to someone. So, if anyone out there has an EISA network card out there with a standard network jack on it (rj45) then drop me a line I’d be very happy to take it off your hands.
cheers
anyweb
I have some spare (and still functional) 3COM Etherlink III 3c509 Network adapters. If you don’t mind to pay for the postage (I’m from Austria) and/or noone else, who is geographically closer to you has something suitable, I would be happy to send it to you.
This type of card is – judging from my experience – nearly as good supported by alternative OSes as the NE2000 based cards (had so far no problems with various Linux flavours, xBSD, xDOS, BeOS, …. ).
Let me know, if you need it / have interest !
Best Regards
Martin
yup- im interested, i can paypal you, (i’m in sweden so not to0 far away)
drop me a mail anyweb@<removethisbit>linux-noob.com
cheers
anyweb
Have you tried doing it over USB? i know that some older ibm 486 computers had USB and ps/2 ports.
If nothing works, then go for rs232 modem emulation and hook it onto another newer machine or a small embedded computer.
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said:—Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter’d visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp’d on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock’d them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
— Shelley
We would do well to remember Ozymandias from time to time.
Digg it here, if you’d like to give the Digg horde something original to discuss/bitch.
http://digg.com/tech_news/In_the_Future_the_Past_Won_t_Be_Present_2
Please no. Keep the digg kiddies out of here. There’s enough flaming goes on as it is.
Why did you link to the comment page instead of your actual story?
Sorry, my bad. Because of that mistake I didn’t notice a dupe by someone who did link to the article directly. http://digg.com/hardware/In_the_Future_the_Past_Won_t_Be_Present
… for a great article!
Interestingly enough, in this line from the article:
“Some cheap CDRs don’t even last five years.”
I got a ContentLink ™ UltraAnnoying(tm) ad link underlining “cheap CDRs”.
—
Ok, back to the point, there is a little detail that is being overlooked when talking about digital information:
Unlike analog physical storage methods of the past, digital information can be duplicated *exactly* to the last bit, without any progressive loss of quality or detail in the copy, or the copy od the copy of the copy of…
TPM, DRM? They are *designed* to be read, and most are cracked in relatively short time with current technology, not to mention that in the “distant feature” they will surely be considered naive and trivial to reverse engineer.
Reverse engineering deteriorated traditional analogic recording media like paper, on the other hand, amounts to reversing entropy… (and we’ll have to wait for Multivac’s distant successor for that)
I read years ago that ephemeral email was supplanting the old letters, diaries, etc, that so much of our knowledge of the last few centuries is based on.
It’s funny to think of future archaeologists trying to figure out what happened to us, with no remains much past the the high point of western civilization in the 1960’s. They might never even know we had computers before things fell apart.
Makes you wonder how advanced some of those ancient civilizations actually were: we only know about them up to the point where they stopped building and writing in stone.
CDRs and DVDs rot: Just because today’s CD-ROM drives may not be able to read cheap CD-R’s over 5 years old, that doesn’t mean we won’t come up with a better tool to read them, like a high-resolution CAT scan or something. In fact, we’ve already come up with tools to read 10th century documents that have been “washed” (erased) and overwritten, like the Archimedes Palimpsest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest
Magnetic media: There are tools to read data from hard drives after the drive has been reformatted. So in the future, reading data from a CD-R or magnetic media that hasn’t been purposely erased should be pretty easy.
Ties to hardware: We already have emulators (like MAME), so you no longer need the original hardware to use old software. And some hardware is even starting to be emulated in hardware–see http://c64upgra.de/c-one/ for an example.
CDRs and DVDs rot: Also, one should note that pressed CDs/DVDs/Other Optical formats are one of the most durable storage medium ever created. They will not fade (unlike dye based CD-R/DVD±R).
Ties to hardware: Well, that’s why we have XML. Everything is stored in plain text!
Stored in plain text, possibly on a proprietry filesystem, possibly encrypted, possibly on a storage medium that won’t last long, possibly without original hardware to read the data.
Plain text on your screen, is never quite plain text on your storage medium.
What we need to do is to chisel our 1’s and 0’s onto clay tablets for future generations.
I dug up my old Linux CDs the other day. Then, on a whim, I decided to search for even older versions of the distros online. My admittedly shallow search revealed that I had older versions of Debian and Slackware than were available from the distributor’s website (0.93R6 and 3.0, respectively). As far as I can tell, the version of RedHat that I have may also be older than what you can find on RedHat’s site. (RedHat’s site has directories for the older versions, but they appear to be incomplete.)
Oh, and please don’t confuse ISA for EISA. The vast majority of non-PCI cards out there are ISA.
As somebody mentioned, and it’s really a greater problem – is not of preserving per se, but of presering the original QUALITY. This is regarding old analog material, such as vinyl disks for example. I’ve read somewhere how some record companies actually encoded these records to 44.1/16 and then just discarded the original masters! Time passes and technology matures quickly so people are just too happy to jump onto the digital bandwagon.
Also, the amount of data is rising, but the amount of *useful* data is hardly increasing. One would need zetabytes of storage just for the crappy exhibionist stuff like this comment.
yes, the Scientology lot are busy transcribing every last word (spoken and written) of L.Ron. Hubbard onto titainium disks to be stored in their Nuclear Bunker with its viewable-from-space landing beacon/emblem:
http://cryptome.org/cst-bunker.htm
I was just reading this article yesterday :
“As glass CDs are completely transparent, information on them can be read perfectly, improving sound quality. They are not affected by heat or humidity and remain in perfect condition forever.”
( http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/entertainment/news/20061021p2a00m0et0… )
Ofcourse glass doesn’t really last forever, but close enough and it’s pretty strong when stored correctly.
Only 98,700 Yen ( 657 EUR ) a piece
Edit: another solution would be something like the Voyager golden record ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record ), complete with diagram of how to get at the data.
Edited 2006-10-26 20:35
Um…. glass doesn’t last forever, because it’s in a weird pseudo-liquid state. Look at the glass in old houses; it warps, sometimes if it’s old enough it will actually pull away from the top of the window. For 657 euros a pop, I think I’d rather have something a bit more reliable.
Um…. glass doesn’t last forever, because it’s in a weird pseudo-liquid state. Look at the glass in old houses; it warps, sometimes if it’s old enough it will actually pull away from the top of the window. For 657 euros a pop, I think I’d rather have something a bit more reliable.
A common misconception :
“Glass: Liquid or Solid — Science vs. an Urban Legend” ( http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C01/C01Links/www.ualberta.ca/~bderks… )
“In other words, while some antique windowpanes are thicker at the bottom, there are no statistical studies to show that all or most antique windowpanes are thicker at the bottom than at the top. The variations in thickness of antique windowpanes has nothing to do with whether glass is a solid or a liquid; its cause lies in the glass manufacturing process employed at the time, which made the production of glass panes of constant thickness quite difficult.”
Tensile strength of glass is also greater than that of steel for example. And in fact glass is so stable it is used to “trap” nuclear waste in it for disposal :
“Vitrification locks dangerous materials into a stable glass form that will last for thousands of years.” ( http://www.answers.com/topic/vitrification )
Edited 2006-10-26 22:23
Does anybody remember the Phase Change Disc (PD)? Thermooptical storage, heat and magnetic fields to record data on the medium, contained in a protecting cartridge… if I remember correctly. It would be comparable to glass CDs because you really need something “special” to chance / destroy the information.
Whatever system you come up with for preserving data long term, there will always be a cheaper solution that isn’t long term. That is where the bulk of the world’s communications will lie and that is what archeologists would be interested in. Not the stuff that people wanted to preserve but the stuff we use every day and then discard.
Most of that will disappear but what few scraps remain will be immensely useful. Just consider the way an archeologist today can determine a lot about what went on at the site of a roman villa just from a broken shard of pottery.
At the end of the book On the Beach, there was a project to encase a whole set of enyclopedias in bricks of glass.
And once binary archeologists get files into their hands with drm protection made to be used on a TCP chip 100 years old, what then?
This discussion has continued for a long time, actually, but it’s good that it pops to the surface every now and then.
Numerous are the tales of friends and acquintances who used an IBM PC in the beginning of 1980s, saved data on floppies, and now are wondering (or were wondering during 1990s already) how on Earth they could read them back. 5.25″ floppy disk drives, anyone? And what was the program’s name you used then… Visi-something? Is any modern program able to read the format?
Going a bit off-topic, film isn’t all that durable either. Consider 1950s and 1960s when Hollywood used a new coloring method (can’t remember its name, but it wasn’t TechniColor). Copies of those films began to dissolve in 20 years due to the chemical used, and this is why some movies are lost forever. It happened in many other places as well, such as the BBC archives, and is the reason why some Doctor Who episodes were lost.
Then again, one may ask if it’s all that important that everything is stored permanently. I for one could well live knowing that all those pesky Reality TV series never made it to the next century.
I believe the Library of Congress is converting a lot of recorded music from CD to 78RPM records. This is because 1000 years from now they could be played back with a simple needle.
Edited 2006-10-27 17:34