Microsoft on Thursday released to manufacturing Exchange Server 2007, a product developers say they ‘bet the company on’. According to Exchange team lead Terry Myerson, Microsoft has 120,000 mailboxes running on Exchange 2007, with 200 partners utilizing the software for another 55000. Acting as a unified messaging server, Exchange 2007 handles e-mail, calendaring, faxes and even voicemail.
Odd for a Microsoft product, but this one sucks less except for the massive cost of deploying it for 50+ customers.
But over that, I highly recommend looking into a real product running on a real OS. Really. Exchange 2007 is still based on the Jet engine and it was never designed for this kind of use – why Microsoft insists on shimming all this functionality on a house of cards like Jet is far beyond me (like many things they do). Using exchange is a little like balancing things on a matchstick once you get over a few dozen users.
On the other hand, I can’t hate it because it now actually has instant messaging. Voicemail is risky given the data store as is e-mail but instant messaging at an enterprise level is a good idea. I’ve had it in my network for about five years using Jabber (currently using eJabberd) and it’s in constant use.
Edited 2006-12-08 23:25
Why on earth would you want it to do instant messaging or anything else for that matter. Monolithic “groupware” products like these are horrible.
uh, communication?
I have a suspicion that you missed my point.
Yes, but, what do you do when the entire executive staff and all non-unix personnel want the de-facto enterprise MUA (Outlook) to work.
Your silence is deafening.
Anti Exchange wars are hard to win because even with Sun Communications Suite, Scalix and Communigate, killing Outlook is tough.
With AJAX and other new front end technologies, killing exchange will become a matter of making an outlook killing webmail UI, that makes messing with email on the localhost totally obsolete.
You do realize that AJAX isn’t new, and it’s one of the things that MS can actually claim to have brought to mainstream web development as they were the driving force behind the XMLHttpRequest concept.
The other problem is that making an OWA killing app will be tough as well…w/ each new iteration of Exchange, OWA gets that much better.
I said with AJAX and other new tech. Never said AJAX was new, but its a buzzword now largely because of Google being able to capitalize on it.
Ok, I ran Openmail (Now Scalix), run Dovecot and WU, and run Sun Communications Suite and have dallied in OSER, Communigate, etc.
By no means am I a Microsoft fan, and yes, I do run a few Exchange Servers.
But this garbage about Jet is ridiculous. People talk about Jet don’t know about the two versions of Jet. One Jet is for junk like Access, the other basically does everything SQL can do without SQL queries, and why the hell do you want to run SQL queries against a message store? Its not like tweaking MSSQL will be any easier.
Jet Red is the junk you think is in exchange, but you are wrong.
Jet Blue or ESE or Extensible Storage Engine is what is in Exchange.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Storage_Engine
Jet Blue / ESE
– Indexed Sequential Access Method (ISAM)
– Purpose is to allow applications to store and retrieve data via indexed and sequential access
– ESE allows applications to enjoy a consistent data state via transacted data update and retrieval
– A crash recovery mechanism is provided so that data consistency is maintained even in the event of a system crash
– Transactions in ESE are highly concurrent making ESE suitable for server applications
– ESE caches data intelligently to ensure high performance access to data
– In addition, ESE is light weight
Comments:
It is transactional
It is fast
It has many different types of indexing.
And exchange server with enough memory can spit back searches like lightning.
Also, Exchange implements single instance storage, if you mail everyone on the server a huge file they all get a pointer to a single instance.
I’ve run mail servers and never had had the desire to care about how the data is stored if it isn’t in files. Sure, piles of files is nice, particularly mbox or completely uncontained, like how OpenMAIL used to do it, but Exchange has become faster and more stable. In fact, I used to run exchange 5.5, and the only thing that pisses me off about the newer exchanges is ADS integration, I dislike Microsoft ADS, but do not dislike exchange.
So your criticisms of exchange are totally invalid.
Things to complain about are:
– Single mailbox restore hard to do.
– Hard for admins to manipulate/clean/search other people mail and queues.
– ADS integration distracts mail administration from his job and brings him into the microsoft only world of providing directory services and even DNS/DHCP/Dynamic DNS. Sometimes someone just wants exchange without the crap.
– Clustering in exchange is more difficult than it should be.
– 2003 SP2’s spam handling facilities are terrible.
– Restoring from backups is a totally unnatural act.
Now with the new windows mobile integration in Exchange, we can get rid of that foul god forsaken piece of garbage Blackberry Enterprise Server.
So there are reasons to hate exchange.. With BrightMail I get no spam, didn’t have to train, I have super fast access to a huge database of mail for my users and database integrity has never bitten my ass in all my years to dealing with exchange. Bad hardware and single mailbox restores is what pisses me off.
You did your homework…well done, and modded up.
After losing a Raid Set on an Exchange Server I’m looking forward to Local Continuous Replication and
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/e2k7help/7310…
Cluster Continuous Replication
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/e2k7help/7310…
“Microsoft Exchange Server 2007 includes built-in features that can provide quick recovery, high availability, and site resiliency for Exchange 2007 Mailbox servers:
o Local Continuous Replication (LCR) LCR is a single-server solution that uses built-in asynchronous log shipping technology to create and maintain a copy, or replica, of a storage group on a second set of disks that are connected to the same server as the production storage group. LCR provides log shipping, log replay, and a quick manual switch to a secondary copy of the data.
o Cluster Continuous Replication (CCR) CCR is a clustered solution that uses built-in asynchronous log shipping technology to create and maintain a storage group replica on a second server. CCR is designed to be either a one or two datacenter solution, providing both high availability and site resilience.
o Single Copy Clusters (SCC) SCC is a clustered solution that uses a single copy of a storage group on storage that is shared between the nodes in the cluster. SCC is very similar to clustering in previous versions of Exchange Server, with some significant changes and improvements.”
The unfortunate thing is that Exchange desperately needs all the replication it can get to hide the fact that its data store lives firmly in the technology era of 1971. Everything else has just been added to hide the fact.
Don’t take my word for it, CNet and many other Microsoft-friendly news sites said the same thing I am saying… WTF were they thinking staying with the Jet engine?
The unfortunate thing is that Exchange desperately needs all the replication it can get to hide the fact that its data store lives firmly in the technology era of 1971. Everything else has just been added to hide the fact.
Don’t take my word for it, CNet and many other Microsoft-friendly news sites said the same thing I am saying… WTF were they thinking staying with the Jet engine?
A heavily modified and optimized Jet engine.
It works.
WOW!!!! Modded down to -2 for this:
A heavily modified and optimized Jet engine.
It works
modded-down for repeat posting again
stestagg says: modded-down for repeat posting again
So you get someone to mod down a polite and factual and reference items and lie and claim I’m spamming.
Then I repeat it so the people browsing at -1 can see that I was being polite and factual.
And then you mod me down again so the lie about me spamming sticks.
WOW. You really, really hate anyone who doesn’t hate Microsoft.
Coward.
All I said was:
A heavily modified and optimized Jet engine.
It works.
Edited 2006-12-09 19:44
So you get someone to mod down a polite and factual and reference items and lie and claim I’m spamming.
Then I repeat it so the people browsing at -1 can see that I was being polite and factual.
Two things: default view is -1, so a post at -1 will still be seen by nearly all site visitors.
Also, you didn’t need to re-post it (which is bad form, and childish) as Xaero_Vincent and another poster brought it back to 1. In other words, let the modding system work, and continue to make posts in which you don’t insult people who disagree with you, and over time people will be less inclined to mod you down.
By the way, crying and whining about being modded down *is* off-topic, and *will* be modded down.
Mods, please mod this post down, as well as its parent, as they are both off-topic.
Mods, please mod this post down, as well as its parent, as they are both off-topic.
Thats a joke right? If you are one of the Top 150 cultists, you start at 2.
You should be modded down 3 times.
Back on topic:
I’m very excited about some of the other new features:
“Many client-side improvements in features and functionality are included in Microsoft Exchange 2007 Unified Messaging.
The new features include the Outlook Web Access client that has Unified Messaging configuration pages, Outlook Voice Access for subscriber access, a voice mail client for Microsoft Office Outlook 2007, and an improved Outlook experience on mobile devices. This section provides information about the new and improved client features that are included in Exchange 2007 Unified Messaging. Microsoft Exchange 2007 also includes several feature and functionality improvements for the information worker. These include improvements and enhancements to calendaring and messaging records management.”
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/e2k7help/6ee9…
Thats a joke right? If you are one of the Top 150 cultists, you start at 2.
What’s your point? I made an off-topic comment and I’m asking for people with mod points to mod it down. You see, I don’t go whine and cry when someone mods me down. I take it like a man.
Of course, since my posts are usually on-topic and civil, I don’t get modded down that often.
BTW the first part of your post was both insulting and off-topic…the fact that you added an on-topic part afterwards doesn’t change this fact.
Remember basic logic: the sentence “the sky is green and 2+2=4” is still considered to be false, even if the second part is true…
By the way, crying and whining about being modded down *is* off-topic, and *will* be modded down.
Do you know anything about Exchange 2007 at all?
I mean, stalking someone to mod them down if a topic you have no interest in and know nothing about is pretty sad and pathetic.
“Microsoft Exchange Server 2007 includes several improvements to the suite of anti-spam and antivirus features that was introduced in Exchange Server 2003.
Management of these features has improved in Exchange 2007. For example, you implement all anti-spam and antivirus features as transport-level agents, and you can manage and script the anti-spam and antivirus features by using the Exchange Management Shell.
Also, you can use a synchronization service named the Microsoft Exchange EdgeSync service to update configuration information and user data on computers that have the Edge Transport server role installed. The Microsoft Exchange EdgeSync service is a collection of processes that are run on the computer that has the Exchange 2007 Hub Transport server role installed to establish one-way replication of recipient and configuration information from the Active Directory directory service to the Active Directory Application Mode (ADAM) instance on the Edge Transport server. The Microsoft Exchange EdgeSync service copies only the information that is required for the Edge Transport server to perform anti-spam and message security configuration tasks and the information about the Send connector configuration that is required to enable mail flow from the Hub Transport servers in the Exchange 2007 organization to the Internet through one or more Edge Transport servers. The Microsoft Exchange EdgeSync service performs scheduled updates so that the information in ADAM remains current. ”
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/e2k7help/6ee9…
Do you know anything about Exchange 2007 at all?
Maybe I do, maybe I don’t. Maybe I came here to learn more about it, and see what critics of Exchange had to say about it.
I’m sure *you* know a lot about it, because astroturfers probably receive “talking points” memo about all of MS’ products, so they can spam the comments section of tech web sites.
Howver, all of these considerations are irrelevant. The post I modded down was not about Exchange at all, it was simply you whining about being modded down. That is off-topic, and so I modded you down.
Mods, please mod both this post and the parent one.
Its really not Jet, its “JET Blue” / ESE.
And Yes, it works.
Thanks for spamming the marketure.
I think I’ll stick with sendmail+cyrus for mail since it… err… actually works. 3 years strong with zero unplanned downtime. The worst problem I’ve had is with corrupted indices, and those are easily rebuilt on the fly.
Thanks for spamming the marketure.
And thanks for modding me down. Its nice to know facts don’t interest you.
I think I’ll stick with sendmail+cyrus for mail since it… err… actually works. 3 years strong with zero unplanned downtime. The worst problem I’ve had is with corrupted indices, and those are easily rebuilt on the fly.
As I said … it works for us. Easy to set up accounts, easy to maintain.
Outlook Web Access is great for staff on the road or at home.
Edited 2006-12-09 17:13
Even better than OWA is the built in support for RPC over HTTP…this allows mobile clients to use the full on Outlook desktop client to connect to your Exchange server over standard port 80 (or 443) protocol.
>Thanks for spamming the marketure.
And thanks for modding me down…
Well seing as spamming / advertising is a valid reason for modding down….
Easy to set up accounts, easy to maintain.
Try dovecot/postfix+mysql. You can manage accounts using a nice GUI client over an SSL connection from anywhere, without having to resort to RDP.
Unfair mod
+1
exchange really is horrible, the product even when setup, is a nuisance, and administrating it is a nightmare.
exchange really is horrible, the product even when setup, is a nuisance, and administrating it is a nightmare.
We find it easy to use and administer. An extra click or two when setting up an AD account and you have a mail account and an entry in the directory.
CommuniGate Pro..enough said.
CommuniGate Pro..enough said.
For an install-and-forget mail server that is heavy on features just under the surface and yet reliable enough for a million-mailbox deployment, I heartily agree. I went the other route and rolled my own but you will never hear me criticize Communigate as a choice.
It can do the same as Exchange (yes, even Outlook access) and lot more. Plus it runs on several platforms. Been running our company messaging/apps on Domino/Linux for some four (or five?) years. Easy to administer, has separate mail files (so you can restore selectively), easy upgrades. Has Win/Mac/Linux clients, even if the Linux one is still rather beta quality.
The only negative thing would be the pricing, I think.
Sorry for the slight off-topic.
…Jet Blue has been proven NOT to work for many workloads. I, many other professionals who have experience Exchange problems and many professionals in journalism know that Jet does corrupt data, has corrupted data and will in the future corrupt data. It’s not worthy of its insertion into the enterprise place.
Much like the company’s operating system.
As for killing Outlook, why bother? Just provide Outlook services. The problem is that the latest Outlook will have the “voicemail” and “instant messaging” features which will require a whole new reverse engineering, because Microsoft refuses to build software around standards or provide definitions for inter-operating with the ones they create.
Wait, we’re we just talking about OpenXML in this context… oh, and of course how Microsoft wants badly to give Novell a bunch of money and rights to interoperate with Microsoft’s cruft? I will bet you a million dollars right now that Microsoft won’t willingly allow anyone else’s server to work with Outlook 2007 completely.
…Jet Blue has been proven NOT to work for many workloads. I, many other professionals who have experience Exchange problems and many professionals in journalism know that Jet does corrupt data, has corrupted data and will in the future corrupt data. It’s not worthy of its insertion into the enterprise place.
It works just fine for many companies.
Maybe you just used old, out of date hardware … like many FOSS supporters claim they do.
The problem is that the latest Outlook will have the “voicemail” and “instant messaging” features which will require a whole new reverse engineering, because Microsoft refuses to build software around standards or provide definitions for inter-operating with the ones they create.
They like to add features to their products so that customers get new functionality. Its the way normal businesses operate.
Edited 2006-12-10 05:44
I am really looking forward to this release, We are using exchange 2000 in our office and this looks to be a great leap in what it has to offer, Has a little bit of everything, from active sync, to some of the ways it replicated data.