These switch ads on TV and web seem to be a huge success and PR for Apple. Today, we interview Jeremiah Cohick, one of the Mac switchers whose ad first aired just last week. Dive in for more!1. How did you got involved in the Switching ads? What is the story behind it?
Jeremiah Cohick: Apple offered an online survey earlier this year for Windows users who had purchased a Mac. I answered the questions in the survey and offered my story in the comment block. One day, Apple called to invite me to tell my story in the Switch campaign and the rest is history.
2. How did you find the filming process? How does it feel to be a person showing everywhere on TV and the net?
Jeremiah Cohick: I didn’t know what to expect during the filming process. I found myself searching for words frequently but the resulting commercial was much better than I thought it would be. Overall, the experience was great and everyone on the shoot rocked!
Major publicity is a very new thing for me. I still have to pinch myself to make sure that I’m not dreaming. I wrote this in my blog the first weekend the commercial aired:
“My pillow is calling me, so I’m off to dream of what it’s like to live as Charlie (from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory). I got a golden ticket and the candy bar tastes more like fruit than cocoa.”
This truly just blows my mind!
3. Have you tried the latest offering of Microsoft, WindowsXP? What is your opinion about it?
Jeremiah Cohick: Oh absolutely! My high school used multiple editions of Windows-based computers, including XP Pro.
XP is the best OS that Microsoft has ever produced. But (and this is one big but) XP is not the best OS that I have ever used. The issue is not that Windows is a bad OS, but rather, it is not the best OS for me.
Small gripes: Luna is just ugly and is the first thing that I disable (along with the revised Start menu).
4. Have you used any other operating systems besides Windows and MacOSX?
Jeremiah Cohick: My desire to get out of the Windows world initially lead me to Linux. One of my friends from high school was a huge Linux geek who tested a new distribution every week it seemed. I eventually installed Linux on my PC. I loved what Linux-on-the-desktop was trying to do, but the application support wasn’t there and I spent more time configuring and troubleshooting than getting work done. At least in Linux, it is an adrenaline rush to get stuff working; this is more of an annoyance in Windows.
I have major respect for the open-source community. Apache and Mozilla are my favorite open-source projects and Apple’s implementation of open-source initiatives (BSD, CUPS, ZeroConf to name a few) was a major draw to Mac OS X for me.
5. What are the main things you are using a computer for?
Jeremiah Cohick: I am a self-employed student. In addition to the business-related activities (i.e. anything that I could do in Office and all of my accounting), my production (web development: PHP, JSP, Flash, and good ol’ graphics & HTML) is all done on my Power Mac G4.
iTunes is usually playing a European techno/trance webcast or a book from Audible.com while I work. Did you know that you can cover ~100 pages in a book in about an hour of an Audible.com audio book download? This is very attractive to me, especially when it takes so much
motivation for me to sit down and read.
I have a theory that owning a Mac makes you more creative in general. iMovie has helped me produce several short videos for my church and iPhoto is great for cataloging my ongoing digital photo experiments.
Gaming isn’t a priority for me because I would much rather be outdoors enjoying nature in my free time. But on a day of thunderstorms, I do have several strategy and card games that I enjoy.
6. What is your top 3 list of features you like on OSX?
Jeremiah Cohick: Wow, this is a tough question to narrow down an answer for. Here are the 3 features I notice most often:
1) I don’t know if this is a feature, but it definitely is part of the user experience. The Mac UI is much better than the Windows UI once you are accustomed to it. Having one location for system-wide control (the apple menu), application control, and window specific controls that
never moves from the top of the screen helps productivity. It feels like the OS gets out of the way for whatever task you are trying to complete. You don’t feel like you are in Mac OS X, but rather that you are working in Dreamweaver MX (or whatever app I’m running). This is hard to explain without showing but very worthy of attention.
2) Amazing Java support.
3) Windows friendliness. I’ve faced the fact that I live in a Windows dominated world (and house). My Mac networks, shares files/printers, etc. seamlessly.
7. What is your top 3 list for features you would like OSX to have in the future?
Jeremiah Cohick: 1) In OS X Server, managing DNS could be made significantly easier. I would like to see something similar to MenAndMice.com’s solutions built into the OS X Server administration tool.
2) I’m a desdever (designer/developer), so please excuse the huge subject change. Font management in OS X is nonexistent without third party software and all of the third party font management applications that I have tried are horrible.
3) Native CD burning in OS X is great but it requires you to write an entire disc. I would like to see the feature to just write a session.
8. Have you met any of the other switchers?
Jeremiah Cohick: Not yet! I might meet them Mac World Expo San Francisco.
9. Have you convinced your dad to use a Mac yet?
Jeremiah Cohick: Well, my dad was not amused by my comments in the commercial. I’ll leave it at that.
But I still prefer Windows XP over anythingelse.
…but is Jeremiah under any sort of “hush-hush” agreement to not say bad things about Apple?
When I wathced the commercail I expected him to say something along the lines of “I only play quake3, Warcraft3, and NWN. so switching to make was easy for me”
=]
Do ya reckon you can get an interview with that stoned-looking chick? You can ask her what stuff she was on
Are the commercials driving sales? Does anybody know? I would grab a mac if I had extra cash for that sort of thing, but I don’t find the commercials persuasive at all.
You bought yourself an overpriced shiny piece of junk. With all the antiquated technology one could possibly imagine. Id like to see apple do a where are they now commercial next year complete with all the faces of the switch folks devastated that the $3000 they just spent has been throw by wayside to make room for apples next BIG idea that completely alienates previous buyers.
Linux Forever
At least in Linux, it is an adrenaline rush to get stuff working; this is more of an annoyance in Windows.
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. If something doesn’t already work in Windows, then it is generally hard to get running. Unices (and UNIX-like platforms) begin with the premise that nothing works, so it is like an adventure to figure out how to make something work. The flip side is that most things ‘just work’ in Windows.
Of course MacOS X is something of a hybrid. It is a platform where things ‘just work’, but if they don’t, then it is like an adventure to find a UNIX solution to do what you need to have done.
PLease leave your jealousy at home… =(
-Spider
You linux heads have to remember that the more kids like these that come along and get exposed to UNIX, its a good thing for the whole community. They are learning the things I learned during and after college.
I wouldn’t slam a kid from buying a UNIX BOX. My gawd, that’s a beautiful thing.
Are the ads working? I just bought a new eMac into my collection of computers. I have to say OSX is a true blue UNIX OS.
That was both a great choice for a topic and a surprisingly good interview. I checked out the switcher adds when they came out and wasn’t too impressed with them. (No problem, I already use Mac OS X) I really liked what this guy had to say in the interview. He is very articulated and voiced his feelings very clearly.
I’d say he is the typical OS X user at this point, a little programmer, a little graphics artists, etc… These are the kind of users that are extremely valuable to a computng platform, because they have the potential to contribute to Mac OS X software. You are in trouble when they start leaving in droves.
cheers, -b
-b
I have seen a number of the switch ads on tv and I have to say while they are cute I’m not certain that they will convince too many non-technophobes to switch. Most of the people in the ads sound pretty ignorant of computers. The one of Janie Porshe is a good example. Most hardware comes with a working copy of the drivers in the box! That and I don’t understand why it should take so long(hours) to find the drivers.
The problem that I see with the ads is that a 30 second ad for the most part doesn’t convince many people to drop down over a $1000+ for a new computer. Also when you switch you often have to buy ‘most’ of your software again. The last I checked Microsoft doesn’t offer cross platform upgrades. Therefore you will have to put down *FULL* price for Office!!! That is a big price to replace software when you likely wouldn’t get $300-500 of productivity out of your machine. I find it odd that someone could hate the Luna window motif, but love the Aqua window motif. Personally I hate both Aqua and Luna as being too gaudy and excessive. As for the success of these ads only good improvements in 4th quarter earnings reports on sales of hardware will be able to say that they were ‘truly’ successful.
Just my 2c.
Oooh, a slightly trollish rehash of old arguments! Because you were only slightly trollish, I offer to rehash MORE old arguments!
Do remember that if a person is truly happy or at least productive with his/her purchase, then all the argument in the world won’t convince them.
Next, Apple is still dependent on Motorola (you know, that EMBEDDED processor maker?) for their desktop systems. Motorola seriously cares more about Cisco and Xerox putting low-power, low-clock PowerPCs in printers and routers than some niche computer maker. Not to mention cars, robots, medical equipment, and so on. Not to mention Motorola’s actual business issues. SOOOO…the G5 will come to Apple when Motorola’s BIGGEST customers demand it.
Although, you are correct about Apple’s history of backwards (in)compatibility. Windows actually has them thoroughly beaten there, except with products MS doesn’t like.
Now, where are the REAL trolls?
–JM
An old arguement doesnt make it a bad arguement. I will simply let history speak for itself.
As a side note.
I work with a G4. Everyday. Therefore I see the pitfalls of this platform on a daily basis. FOR 4 YEARS!. A Mac doesnt crash? You cannot be serious. There is nothing worse than a crashing Mac because more often that not there is NO salvation. Unless you’re working in Graphic Design (which I do) I would not recommend Macintosh. As a Designer and Professional developer at home I stick to Win2KPro for ASP/Flash and Linux for the rest.
I dont believe Motorola is what keeps Apple in business. I believe its Adobe Photoshop. Photoshop wont run anywhere the way it runs on a Mac. (period end of sentence)
http://www.drunkgamers.com/switch0001.shtml
(If you can get one of the mirrors to work check out this switch ad)
I think Sean must use MS paint for his graphics. Would love to see your portfolio website for us to critique. I’m sure it looks really professional.
Not that I have to prove anything to someone on a message board but I’ve won numerous Addy awards since I entered the business from (98-02) and have been recognized for my commercial work (That’s work in CMYK for those who dont understand work outside of a computer) in an International Festival. And I am the lead designer for the promotions department of a newspaper in Florida. My work includes everything from Marketing Posters to Direct Mail to Billboards to the web etc. I’ve worked with Photoshop since version 3 and Illustrator since version 6. Im certified in Dreamweaver and Flash and have done it ALL ON A MACINTOSH. In fact Im not even sure what MS paint is. Does that give you a better background? Still would not recommend a Mac! Good Enough? If you’d like my social security # I can provide that too for better evidence of my work experience.
I was lost in the dark world of Windows before finding my way back to the Mac (note that there was a brief and futile experiment using Linux as a desktop OS between Windows and Mac). OS X is the only reason I could have seriously considered a Mac, because I’m a Java devloper and Mac OS 9 wouldn’t cut it.
Anyway, in the 16 or so months since I’ve been using OS X full time at work and home, I have never once had any of my Macs crash. So I have to assume that a) you’re using OS 9 and your crash comments are irrelevant b) you simply don’t know what you’re doing or c) you’re trying to use some flaky/unsupported hardware.
So, which is it?
All authentic Apple equipment.
My assumption then would be that you’re not doing anything with your mac other than sending e-mail and sending these message board comments. To which my response would be YOU WASTED YOUR MONEY!
If you’ve never crashed your Mac YOU’RE NOT REALLY USING IT! And if there were any real Mac people in this discussion they would verify exactly what I’m saying. I can only assume those who are arguing with me that a Mac NEVER crashes have never used a Mac for anything other than sending e-mail or building a static web page to which I would still respond YOU WASTED YOUR MONEY!
PS. Im on OSX
Yama wants an interview with the drugged-out chick. Forget her. How about that babe who saved Christmas? I would turn in my computer for an abacus for her…
In fact Im not even sure what MS paint is
Hmm? Have you even used a Windows computer? If you do all your work on a Mac, and aren’t happy about it, maybe you should try other PC’s/OS’s: Windows/Linux/*BSD/BeOS. Even if you didn’t like them, you might decide that a Mac isn’t so bad after all. Or you might find something you can really be happy with.
I think you missed my earlier LINUX FOREVER comment. I personally Love Linux and would recommend it to anyone. YES Even to my Grandmother. Of course I would give my Grandmother Lycoris or something simple like that. Its Free as in Free Beer
and she can send her e-mail and check her stocks. Now, does my Grandma need a Crashing Windoze? a $1500 Mac? or a $200 linux box? Hmmmm She can buy her friends an awful lot of Free Beer with the $1300 she had left over when she didnt buy the Mac. I personally prefer Debian or Redhat but thats just me. Either way I’ve just grown tired of Mac selling itself as the peoples pc when really its just an overpriced paperweight.
Most Windows users have never used a Mac OS, and virtually none have used OSX, a marvel of strength and beauty so, when they say to stick with MS, they are speaking uninformedly. And if these PC users are involved in digital graphics, I suggest they wake up and smell the roses as the Mac OS is the gold standard in most fields of graphic/website design. They need to quit whining about the existance of the MacOS, stop attempting to obstruct its use, and get with the program by actually testing, learning about it in an objective manner, and then using the MacOS.
Seriously, you seem very young. Have you ever studied any UI principles and theories? Do you know what real experts see and say about Windows OSes? Since there are more graphics/publishing/designer applications for Mac than any other OS, what is the real reason you seem so hostile? Bad parenting?
Sounds like you work in a small shop, which I can understand you might have x86 hardware running CorelDraw and MS Paint (check your start > programs > acessories > paint) programs.
Do you have a website? Since I know a thing or two about usability, I would love to critique for you.
Im 25. I thought before that I said I work in the promotions department of a newspaper?? A newspaper with 150,000+ circulation. Thats not the new york times but it aint a small shop either. And I really dont think I require the critiques of Jonathan. I somehow think you’ve missed everything I’ve said. If Im doing any Web graphics its on a PC either Fireworks or Gimp in Linux. Lets see your usability portfolio Jonathan. I had great parenting which tought me the value of the $1 and for you to sit here and tell people to go out and spend their hard earned money on a paperweight to send e-mail because of your MAC BIAS is irresponsible.
Sean doesn’t recommend Macs. OK. He crashes them. I crash mine occasionally, and my Jaguar upgrade didn’t result in happiness until I cleaned the hard drive and installed it fresh.
I started with computers doing punch cards on an IBM 1130 in 1972. I bought my own machine in 1980 (remember the Ohio Scientific), and did a succession of CP/M and DOS up to Windows in 1992. My wife got a Mac in 1998, which was my introduction. I still have one Windows desktop, but multiple Macs. My kids learned on Windows in school, but they’re all Mac, too.
After all of that, I can say without any reservation that my worst day on a Mac has still been better than my best day on a Windows machine. And I didn’t even want to like Macs, because liking them meant that I had to dump my investment in Wintel iron. Oh well.
I was working couple of years on Macs. Never again. Macintosh is overadvertised piece of crap.
Linux forever.
sean says he’s a super duper award winning graphic artist doing all this splendid work on a mac.
yet he says they are pieces of junk,”With all the antiquated technology one could possibly imagine..”
makes you go hmmmmmm.Irony impaired?
LOL!
1972?? I wasnt born until 77 so I missed that boat. My guess though then Tom is that you are an older gentleman who can afford his Mac purchase. Apple however markets their products to college kids and young adults as being nothing short of the second coming when in all reality for SEVERAL hundred dollars less they can purchase a PC wintel or linux and perform the exact same functions. Notice the switch ads are for consumer based Digital Cameras, students, and the like NOT professionals. DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!
If you’ve never crashed your Mac YOU’RE NOT REALLY USING IT!
Actually, my Mac (OSX) is most stable when I’m really using it. The only time it’s crashed is when I try to do networking stuff. There was a time after the original 10.1 release that I twice crashed the thing just by going online at my folks’ house. Haven’t had the problem since then; I think one of the updates must’ve fixed it.
As for what I do when I’m really using it: I run Maple 7 (in Classic mode) to do some high-performance mathematics, and run a lot of Unix software (via XDarwin) to report on my mathematics.
So, not only is OSX stable for me when doing my real work, it’s stable even though it’s running software designed on other architectures.
Strange.
Of course, your experience is almost certainly different; you don’t do the same work I do.
You catty people who keep attacking my experience are ridiculous. You’ve get facts? Fine, then let their be facts. Im speaking from my personal experience with the platform you attacking me is not proving your case it only proves you have no case for purchasing the overpriced paperweight. Much like Apple itself you resort to pretty pictures and name calling to get a point across rather than actually getting the job done. That will be its down fall. Dont forget 97%
who the f.ck cares?
I am responding to em only cause yer posts are so laughable, ludicrous, and lame.
Lord knows yer posts are verbatum copy and pastes from previous threads here and on other less laudible sites such as /. .
Every now and then we get a little troll to come by and scream from his little mountain top. Most people here are very educated and speak with grace about different OSes and their strengths and weakness, instead of “DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!”
Eventually the troll’s colors will show. I suggest we ignore Sean and try to stay on the topic of this thread.
Thank you both for proving my point.
Hilarious header.
Apple however markets their products to college kids and young adults as being nothing short of the second coming when in all reality for SEVERAL hundred dollars less they can purchase a PC wintel or linux and perform the exact same functions.
Well, as one of those young(ish) adults, I really must disagree. Sure, I could do my work on Windows or Linux. In fact I’m typing this now on a Linux workstation, taking a break from a particularly baffling problem. BUT I’d have to put up with Windows & Linux. (Which, BTW, I have to do at work.)
I don’t like Apple as a company much but at least the machine lets me do my work. It actually crashes less than my Linux workstation (doubtless my fault that happens, but X just doesn’t like me).
The same can be said about most Mac users never using Windows before. This of course excludes recent “Switchers”. I hear many people from both sides bash the other but only about older versions of Windows and MacOS. Sure OSX and XP comparisons are plentiful but how many of us have really owned and used both at equal lengths of time?
I’ll be honest, I did not use my iMac flat panel for as long as I’ve been using PC’s, but that’s simpily becuase there were not enough compelling reasons for me to switch over permenantly. My only compelling reason to even consider Mac in the first place is because of my desire to get away from Microsoft products.
And to all the graphic artists out there who are saying the Mac is the best platform for graphics:
Since when does the computer matter when it comes to art? I always believe that it’s talent and creativity that drives the art industry. You can be sitting in front of a $30K SGI machine but that won’t make you a good graphic artist. Using a Mac may simplify your work flow for you, but it certainly does not mean that the Mac is the end all, superior graphics platform. My brother has done some interesting drawings in MS Paint, a program that has less than a dozen different brushes, and a limited choice of colors. But he is an artist and he uses the best tool – his creativity – so the computer does not get in his way of making artwork.
Now you can leave, satisfied that you’ve won the debate. The debate that your opinion is the one that matters.
Most a the ones I know say that FOR THEM, the mac best suits their needs.
Sean, I suggest you take a hard look at the components that go into a consumer Mac (eMac, iMac, iBook) and then price them dollar for dollar with comparable products from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. I think you’ll find Apple’s products very competitive in price to simlarily equipped computers from those PC makers. Don’t forget, student’s get a discount .
The price will be very close, although I will give the PCs a bonus for their speed advantage. An advantage which will be lost on most consumer of those machines because they cannot/will not harness their power. You know Sean, the ones who just use their computers for e-mail and posting on boards like this/
I’m not talking about trying to find the cheapest machine you can configure at Dell’s site. Dell will win the price comparison, but it will be crap. I’m not talking about a piece of crap, cheapest they can build from some mom and pop shop. And I’m not talking about some build it yourself special, because most people don’t want to or know how to buy a bunch of parts and build a machine. I have done so many times myself, but I learned my time is much more valuable the the “salad bar” approach to computers.
Then, Sean, I suggest you do some research into after market values of a 1 year old PC versus a 1 year old Mac. I’m sure a little exploring on ebay will quickly clue you into which machine (PC or Mac) better holds it value. If you don’t have the time, I’ll clue you in…the Mac.
I have had NT 5.x, linux 6.x, Mac OS 9, and Mac OS X crash on me before. There were different reasons in each case. Mac OS 9 architecture makes the system too vulnerable, bad hardware, or networking problems hobbled, my linux box, etc… NT had problems in the core OS, we had a program that would (repeatedly) bring the system down after 53 hours and 12 minutes, doing basic memory allocation deallocation and some mathematics. Mac OS X in earlier versions was flakey when running iTunes (shame shame Apple), an application that should not bring down an OS.
The NT problems were the worst. Both Linux and Mac OS X give me the feeling that the core OS is VERY solid.
The nature of applications in Win and Mac are more complex than on Unix, and as a result tis a much richer user experience.
Regardless, you are entitled to your opinions. I’d be happy to take any of those paperweights off your hand, should you find something better.
-b
You don’t like Macs. We get it. Shut up already.
I was considering to buy an ibook (heck, I could always put linux on it, if macosx didn’t suit me I thought), but it’s so expensive for the little hardware there is in there..
It costs 1692 euros for an ibook with 12″ tft, 128mb ram, a simple cdrom drive, and 600mhz processor.
For 1399 euros I can get a pc laptop with 14″ tft, 256mb ram, dvd and an athlon 1400+
(prices from exell.be)
Uh, just read in one of the comments that you can get a discount if you are a student (which I am). I’ll go check apples website if it’s worthwhile.
…One-button mice, aren’t they just about the stupidest thing ever invent by the pc industry.
Sounds like the Euro prices on hardware are inflated. In the US, that machine would be $1,199 dollars, which should equal about $1234 Euros based on today’s current exchange.
The price you quote is more than the cost of the top of the line 12″ iBook in the US, and just shy of the 14.1″ version.
I was wondering when that would come up!
Multi button mice, contour shuttle pro, etc all work nicely in OS X.
Wacom tablets have inkwell support built into OS X.
Is on a par w/XP IMHO.
That’s really an ignorant comment since Macs were the first mass produced consumer machine with a mouse (I know they did not invent the mouse), and always have had a single button. It sounds as if you’re suggesting they said “Hey, that mouse idea is great on Windows…but let’s make ours with one button.”
You know what you do if you don’t like a one button mouse? You plug a different mouse in, with as many buttons as you like. Multiple button mice are supported in OS X.
And even when I have to get a PC at work (as a test machine), the first machine I always do is replace the mouse on there too. I never use the default mouse, Mac or PC.
Eeesh. I only gave a very good reason for Apple’s outdated core hardware (being that Motorola doesn’t care much for high-performance processors). Also a good reason that people are happy with their Macs, Wintel boxes, Lintel boxes, etc…
But Sean, I’m so PROUD! You’ve evolved into a REAL TROLL with zealot tendencies! I’m surprised! Just for you, I’d like to say “Linux 5ux0rz” because I said so.
On the other hand, the “Switch” ads seem to be featuring people that I can relate to — I KNOW and have worked people like Jeremiah. I think Apple’s trying to get a broader spectrum of relatively affluent people, including the various geeks (computer geeks, art geeks, music geeks) that are slowly flocking to the platform. The first set of switch ads weren’t meant for geeks.
Good interview Ms. Loli-Queru.
–JM
How come if someone says they are a grahic artist, or a muscian and they use windows, so many ppl have to tell them they are living in some fantasy world and they cant be using windows to create anything without being crippled by a lack of geinie window fx in their operating system. I mean ya do need the geinie min max visual fx to be creative right? .. .RIGHT?
I create art with windows.
Why is it every Mac users standard response that you should “just go buy a two button mouse”. Why the H*ll after spending thousands of dollars on a non-upgradeable computer should I also have to go spend another $30 for a good mouse? Oh and what about apple notebooks? No solution there. Unless of course you feel like carrying around an extra mouse with you everywhere.
To all of the Apple apologists, enjoy your Mac, but don’t act like the other 95% of us are missing out on something. The smug attitude was annoying when the first Mac came out, and its still annoying now. The only thing we are missing out on is spending too much.
here comes glenn to save the day for the abused windows users!
Hurrah!
man this is getting better all the time.
smug apple users annoy U?
damn thats rich.
life is rough out there i guess.
Why is that accountants and lawyers tend to use PCs and not Macs? Back 15-20 years ago Apple and IBM went after different target audiences. For example Lotus spreadsheet for Mac (Jazz) had better graphics, cut and paste features… then 1-2-3 but in terms of performance on medium sized + calculations it was terrible. PCs got the more “serious apps” Macs got the better laid reports. Thus you ended up with different crowds on different platforms. This led the platform to better support the interests of these different crowds, led software to better support the interests of these different crowds, and led to different community support levels.
To this day OSX does offer genuine advantages for creative people like OpenGL and Quicktime existing as system data formats.
“Multiple button mice are supported in OS X.”
Well, if i buy a mac with OS X does it come with a nice multi-button mouse and the (IMHO) indispensable mouse wheel.
I know i can buy any mouse or trackball later, but why do i have to pay for an unusable and deprecated piece of hardware like the one-button mouse.
1) A system compiler included in the OS
2) Free development tools (project builder)
3) A universal scripting language for all apps as well as system events (applescript)
4) A standard sound/video format (Quicktime integration)
5) A high power 3D library (opengl)
6) A server quality OS for $129
7) The ability to use a full featured server OS including easy configuration apps and no per seat licensing fees for a few hundred extra (apple osx server)
8) A full functioning built in Unix (darwin)
9) A free X server/client that runs rootless (XonX)
10) iApps
Are you using a PC from a company like Dell, Compaq, or Gateway? If so, are you using the mouse that came with it?
Most people who care about things like two button mice (myself included) would never be happy with the default mouse that comes with any machine — PC or MAC. I prefer an optical Logitech Mouseman Wheel. I have one installed on each of my Macs, and also on my test Windows machine at work.
Many people, however, don’t care whether a mouse has one or two buttons. Your average computer user browses the web, chats, uses Microsoft office, and sends some e-mail. How much of an advantage is a two-button mouse to that type of user?
Imagine this:
First date. Agreement is made to meet in the parking lot of the restaurant. Guy parks a bit early, waits on girl. Girl parks. Guy approaches girl, scorn written plainly on his face:
Guy: You drive a Chevy! What a ripoff. EVERYone knows Chevy SUCKS. Oh my god, I can’t believe you were that stupid. Sheep! Ford makes the only vehicles on the road worth driving. I can’t believe I even asked you out.
Girl: You’ve got to be kidding! You bought a Ford?? Jesus, what a @#$@ loser! Why didn’t you just take your hard-earned money, put it in a pile, cover it with gasoline and light a match? And you call ME sheep!?
Random Stranger who happens to be in parking lot: What idiots you BOTH are. Anyone who doesn’t drive a Nissan, the greatest vehicles ever made, might as well just WALK everywhere he goes!
<fistfight ensues>
Now, imagine the same thing, in a casual restaurant, when one of the two orders Pepsi rather than Coke. Tea rather than coffee. Imagine the same thing in the cereal isle of the grocery store when someone picks up a box of Cheerios rather than a box of <random competing product>.
Silly, isn’t it?
Now, imagine a group of (allegedly) computer literate, eductated people doing the same thing as regards their PERSONAL choices of computer architectures / operating systems.
Silly, isn’t it?
Because they don’t need to!
Most people can’t even begin to imagine the amount of money that companies spend on Windows (no exageration).
Windows has 97% of the market and all the software.
Intel rules, Win2k rocks! .Net is coming etc…
Apple simply can not compete with Microsft with PowerPC.
I don’t thing they can even compete with Linux.
All the candy coating in the world simply won’t work.
Apple cannot switch to Intel so they have to stick with their little niche and watch their back so they don’t loose that to Microsoft.
Easier to use or not, OS X does not offer anything that Windows cannot do. Windows is still a richer OS on the server and the desktop with first class development tools.
So…
ciao
yc
Are you using a PC from a company like Dell, Compaq, or Gateway? If so, are you using the mouse that came with it?
My is a frankenstein that i assembled myself, so it has no brand and neither has my mouse
Many people, however, don’t care whether a mouse has one or two buttons. Your average computer user browses the web, chats, uses Microsoft office, and sends some e-mail. How much of an advantage is a two-button mouse to that type of user?
I don’t agree, i mean, i can’t do those things without the right button, particularly using the office,and browsing the web i really can’t live without the mouse wheel.
I think that one-mouse button is just there because Apple is stubborn and wants to make some point that i just can’t figure out. No trolling intended.
But since the fistfight is virtual, it is EVER so much fun! Silly things that don’t hurt people are fun. silly things tht get knock-down, drag out, personal and nasty need to be stopped. This hasn’t gotten that far I think, so, eh.
–JM
Your problem is not the one button mouse, it’s the no wheel mouse.
whatever happened to the ‘intelligent conversation’ mandate that was so clearly laid-down by her ladyship alongside the ‘Definately No-Trolling’ commandment that has already banished many intelligent people to alternative home pages.
This thread is no more than a ‘Dive’ into a flame-fest.
Nice to ‘pop back’ now and again for a taste of the intelligensia Eugenia.
lol!
Hug0, I’d prefer if Apple shipped a two button mouse also — on their prosumer machines. And I agree that they seem a bit stubborn regarding it. I don’t agree, however, that a two button mouse is a necessity for your average home user.
I too enjoy the scroll wheel, even though it is an ergonomic disaster. It’s a poster child for creating repetitive stress issues.
Why don’t you fuck yourself El Al? I had enough of your OWN trolling lately.
I did a nice interview over there, but if people want to become nasty and spill this nice article, I WILL moderate down as I have done with your highness recently.
I feel great sympathy for Sean, he’s right that OS X is too immature to recommend. The price is terrible.
But what is $2000 for a much happier computing experience, especially if you’re a newbie? Price is a bad metric, especially if you’re creating thousands of dollars worth with your machine.
Sean could have been more literate in his criticism.
Why this flamefest?? This is about Apple’s advertising. Who here believes advertising? Apple’s Switch campaign is really what Mac advertising has always been, when they advertise to the public at large and not singing to the choir – the simple idea that Macs are easier to use. We can argue about that, of course but, my God, vehement posts about mice, of all things. This was a fun interview – with one of the young Switch people. He seems like an engaging young man and it was fun to read. How did that lead to this nonsense? Some of you who post these flames, you don’t realize it, but you constantly undermine your computer knowledge and skill by the way you conduct yourselves. :::sigh::: flamefests because of TV commercials – what next?
I love how some pro mac people assume windows users haven’t tried mac. Thinking its the only reason we wouldn’t love their os. The truth is most compter enthusiasts (yes even windows users) try other systems. I was forced to use mac os9 everyday for 4 months and it was the crashiest piece of shit I ever used in my life (it crashed opening a second browser window in ie). Since then I’d heard great things about os10 and played around with it a little, it was nice. So I went to the mac shop at the mall and decided to test it out fully. Guess what after an hour I crashed it. An hour, my 2k pro hasn’t crashed since the bad driver incident on INSTALL. Is it beause I know how to set up windows? Sure, but you think Apple could set up a mac so it wouldn’t crash. btw if macs are so much better at graphics then why do windows versions of photoshop and the like outsell their apple counterparts by a large margin? Is it because John Doe, the accountant, decides to pay almost a grand for a photo imaging program? No. If he had that kind of money to waste he’d buy a mac (the priciest mac gets outperformed by a mid level pc, costing a lot less).
See subject.
Apple’s student discount isn’t all its cracked up to be. In 98 when I was pricing a new computer the bottom rung imac was around $1500, it was $1300 with student discount. For less then half that amount I bought a whitebox pc from a little shop, that had twice the ram and a much faster processor. Oh yeah, and a bigger moniter, twice the video memory, better speakers, better keyboard and a much, much better mouse. So yeah the discount is great, but the mac is still more expensive then a more powerful pc.
You know, it’s come out in the news lately that white box computers make up such a big percentage of of sales. I know many people who swear by white box too, especially in the sense that they have a local place they can go, get to know the people there and, assuming the place is a good one, come to trust them. You can’t really beat that in a lot of ways. Computing has become so big, it is nice that the local white box outfits are doing well.
“1) A system compiler included in the OS”
Your right windows doesn’t have one, but is it really needed? Probably not.
“2) Free development tools (project builder)”
Also not on windows, but windows has so many developers (commercial, freeware, shareware, postcard, etc.) that your average user feels no need to write programs, if they do they can get tools.
“3) A universal scripting language for all apps as well as system events (applescript)”
Extoll to us the virtues of this great invention, cause to be honest I have no idea what the hell it is.
“4) A standard sound/video format (Quicktime integration)”
If ms did that (making windows media formats the standard for windows) they’d get sued by apple and real. you see standardizing stuff is a different ball game when you have 90+% of the market.
“5) A high power 3D library (opengl)”
I’m sorry but isn’t opengl supported by windows? Along with d3d? In fact doesn’t it run better on windows then mac? Course it does, pc = faster cpu more powerful gpu.
“6) A server quality OS for $129”
Your actually right there, but I don’t know anybody running a site on an os10 box, I know several people running them on 2kpro and xp pro though.
“7) The ability to use a full featured server OS including easy configuration apps and no per seat licensing fees for a few hundred extra (apple osx server)”
Apple does have a better liscensing scheme, in some respects. Of course Ms isn’t charging for sp1 for xp, while I believe apple did with jaguar
“8) A full functioning built in Unix (darwin)”
Windows may not include Unix, but since all unicies combined have fewer boxes then there are win98 machines I think being windows compatable is a tad more important (at least for desktop users). But then again if I wanted to use a *nix, wouldn’t I just buy a *nix?
“9) A free X server/client that runs rootless (XonX)”
Big question for ya, who cares?
“10) iApps”
tried em, don’t like em, ergo not missing em.
Lastly zealot, I don’t know about you but when i’m surfing the web I don’t want to have to hold ctrl as I click just to save a picture. But admitting that would mean admitting apple needs to move on to shipping multi button mice along with systems, instead of just supporting them. Especially since with most new pcs you get a 2 button mouse, possibly with scroll. It may not be as nice as a logitech optical or microsoft’s own optical, but it still works better out of the box then the apple optical one button throwback to 1985.
jbolden1517,
why did you list OpenGL as something Windows users are missing out on? OpenGL is available to every single decent OS out there (Linux, Solaris, BeOS to some degree, and off course Windows) and I’m talking about drivers with hardware acceleration, except BeOS.
And QuickTime is just another file format. It’s not an industry standard like a regular MPEG file, you still need a player that reads that formt, I’d say it’s comparable to the AVI format – that’s disregarding the codec used to compress the media.
Sure Windows comes with a compiler. Ever run “debug.exe” from the command line?
Disclaimer:
Please don’t go trying to run debug.exe from a command line unless you know how to use it, and you know assembly language.
And I love the comments by genaldar.
because some things don’t apply to him, or he thinks they’re not important, the whole thing is crap.
LOL! what a country,what?
This really is a pretty remarkable catfight even by the usual standards.
Geez. I’m more-or-less a fulltime Mac user now, and I still don’t understand why either “side” feels it’s so vital to convince the “other guys” that they’re absolute morons for making the choice they did.
No, the PowerBook isn’t incredibly fast. But it’s a nice machine. Get over it. I’m running Jaguar and, hey, the speed is perfectly acceptable. Yeah, even for window resizing most of the time. Are there faster, “better” PC laptops? Sure. One of my friends has a ThinkPad which is absolutely amazing. It whomps the PowerBook feature for feature. Did he pay more than I did? Yes. By a lot. I’ve been using computers for longer than the IBM PC existed, thank you very much, and I’m getting kind of pissed off by PC bigots claiming I made my choice because of the pretty paint color.
And for Christ’s sake, yes, you can do all of this stuff on a PC. If you’re a Mac bigot, get over that, too. There are things you can do more easily on a Mac and the user experience really is better, yeah, and yeah, people who don’t get it aren’t going to no matter how you yell at them. Beyond that, newsflash time: the full Macromedia and Adobe lines of design software run on both platforms and they run pretty much the same on both platforms. And the best HTML editor I’ve ever used was Windows only. (Allaire HomeSite. Yes, I’ve used BBEdit. Yes, it’s great. No, it’s not as good as HomeSite.) If you design on Fireworks, you can design on both systems and you can be just as serious on both systems.
Whether or not “El Al” is a nasty troll, the observation that these threads turn into ill-informed Mac-vs.-PC advocacy matches is pretty dead on. I’m sure Slashdot would be just as bad if I had to read every comment, but say what you will about its weird moderation system–setting a display threshhold of “2” and sorting by highest rating first filters out a lot of the mudslinging.
LOL, Genaldar, you don’t have to Click-Control on a Mac to download a picture. You just hold the mouse button down.
If you don’t know what AppleScript is, you should look into it. It is a wonderful, wonderful tool. It is, in a way, a continuation that harkens back to people writing their own little programs in BASIC on Apple II’s. Ordinary users can learn to write scripts for any number of things and there are scripts, probably thousands of them, you can get for free to do all number of things, for individual applications (if the application supports AppleScript) or the Finder itself.
It would be good, if possible, for people to use and know, at least to some degree, other platforms than what they use or know about. If you do that, you see more clearly the strengths and weaknesses of each platform. You see that these petty arguments are ridiculous and you are freed from compulsion to blindly defend your main platform or post opinions about things you know nothing about. Computing is wonderful then and you get to have it all.
I saw the ad, read the interview, and even visited Jeremiah’s web site. He’s a busy guy with lots of accomplishments and ongoing work; his choice of computers simply helps him to achieve all that he can. I’m a long-time user of Windows and Macintosh OS’s both at home and at work (programming, networking, administration, graphics, general office productivity, etc.), and hold several MS certifications. Based on that exposure, I can atest to how the Mac OS “gets out of your way” to allow you to attain your best work in an enjoyable manner. I applaud Jeremiah, a youthful person who has figured that out, and respects those who have other goals for their computing experience.
out of my skull to post on this stupid mine is better than yours flame wars.
THIS IS GETTING OLD!
do you called beeing bashed _everywhere_ in the media a success, since when is the general view that these people are kinda “challenged” a hint of success…?!
mac sucks. it costs too much. who cares if you’re happily getting work done, since you had to spend so much to get it done in the first place. you wasted your money!
linux sucks. its too difficult to use. who cares if its free and all when you can’t get a single work done. who cares if you learn how to use a computer and how it actually works. who cares if its open source. you wasted your time!
windows sucks. who cares if it has thousands of applications when you only use maybe 20. who cares if you believe everything else will die because microsoft rules the business world. microsoft will kill anything not authenticated by palladium in the future. you wasted your life!
take your pick which one will be the best to start a flamefest. at least i say everything sucks. i would personally use a linux as a server, a windows machine as a desktop for business people, and mac as a personal machine. i wouldn’t give my mother linux. i wouldn’t give my secretary a mac. and i certainly won’t give myself windows.
flame me!!!!
It’s kinda funny how people still don’t get the point with Windows apps.
Yes, 99% of the People only need 20 apps. Only, it is not like there are only 20 programmers who stand up and each of them will create one of these 20 apps. This is a matter of having a _huge_ environment of developers where things like office suits, Phoptoshop, etc, etc… can come to live in the first place.
BeOS had “thousands” of apps as well – most of them only little gadgets and toys. Only a large base of developers + users make it possible to have “big” commercial-class apps.
Therefore, if a Mac-head says he is comfortable with the 3% market share, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about at all. This has always been proven and has been re-proven only lately as well with the fear that MS will cancel Mac Office development for lack of interest equaling lack of user base. The same is true for the hebrew localization of Mac Office, etc, etc…
If people keep on re-phrasing their BSOD-bullshit about Windows, this only prooves that they don’t know anything at all. BSOD is largely history since W2K and that is since 1999. Mac will get harder and harder times not because you only need 20 apps but because you need more than 20 _qualified_ programmers for those 20 apps you have in mind and you certainly need more than the current market share to keep these people developing for Mac.
So, the only OS selfresponsible for sucking is Mac OS, really. Windows has proven it can survive, Linux need not convince anybody – only the Mac has major struggles ahead, not only software-wise.
haha. how true. which is probably why i still haven’t actually bought a mac. although it does have what i need now, what about the future. you get the point exactly. which is probably why i still use windows xp and linux myself. darn i was hoping for a more stupid reply. can’t get any better than that. hehe.
actually i still think this reasoning is true: windows has more market share, which means more apps, which means more people have the apps everyone else needs, which means its easier to pirate applications. linux doesn’t really have any problems with piracy. and macs have a problem because not enough people can get pirated software. imagine what would have happened if people realize that they can pirate mac apps easily? then probably the perception of not having enough apps would die down a little because anyone would be able to steal photoshop, dreamweaver, etc.
yes i know its pretty easy these days actually. but go to any asian pirate shops, and you wouldn’t see too many mac apps. yes i know people do actually buy things that are worth the money. but there are still a lot of people who never will buy software.
so there’s another thought.
Don’t want to control-click? No problem. As another poster pointed out, simply hold down the lonely mouse button for about a second or two and the contextual menu appears (in OS X and most browsers in OS 9). A third option (and this is the one I use to save picutes, text, etc.) is to simply drag-and-drop the picture onto the desktop. Sure, I happily use two button mice when I use Windows, BeOS, Linux, QNX, and others, but I truly don’t miss it when I am using a Mac. There are other, just as simple ways, to accomplish my goals. To each his own.
Windows people – We have the best OS, not sure why but it must be the best as 95% of the computing world use it….
Mac people – We choose a different OS so what would you prefer 100% of the computing world to be windows!
Linux people – We have an OS tooo..it is just well not quite finished yet…almost there
With many apologies to Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie:
“Every computer crashes because every OS sucks.”
To date, I have crashed computers running the following:
Windows XP (Home and Pro)
Windows 2000
WinMe
Windows 98
Windows 95
Windows 3.1 / 3.11
MacOS X
MacOS 9.X
MacOS 8.X
System 7.X
Linux 2.5.X
Linux 2.4.X |- Probably as the result of X.
Linux 2.2.X / Without X, Linux has never crashed on me.
BeOS RC2
So there, all of the operating systems listed here have been proven (beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind) to crash.
Please also consider the MTBR-I (mean time between re-installations or re-imaging). Windows in my experience has the lowest rating in this regard (I have to reinstall, on average, about 2 to 3 times a year). My parents have been running the same installation of MacOS 8.1 for about 6 years now.
Thank you for your time.
regex
~Currently Sextuple booting: WinXP, Win2k, BeOS5, Slackware 8.1, FreeBSD, RedHat 7.3Beta (Null)~ (And yes, I do use them all).
MacOS X… I bought it, run it. It does crash. Anyone here have a USB LS-120 drive? Can you copy large amounts of data to it without the machine dying in OS X? Do you reboot to OS 9 like I do just to copy files?
That’s cute, isn’t it?
RE: the comments about getting things to work in Unix while “they just work” in Windows: HAH HAH HAH. I would word it this way: “In Windows, things SEEM to work. Often they do work, but don’t scrutinize it too much.” In a Unix-like environment… good luck… I don’t care. Frankly, in ANY OS, stuff works or doesn’t work. There’s no statistic that says “stuff on this platform/OS just does not work as much as stuff on that other platform/OS.” It’s all about the specifics: who made the software? What does it interact with? What are the configuration requirements? What kind of bugs? Etc.
what are you talking about?
Ouch, that’s painful. Bad drivers, maybe?
TO Eugenia:
I shall NEVER ask another question like “where are the real trolls” again (go back to comments 1-15 and you’ll see).
–JM
Ahh so it does the same thing as a batch file, a perl script or a java script?
btw thanks for the tip, if I’m ever forced to use mac again I’ll try that. Of course it’d be easier and faster if apple would just break down and sell computers with 2 button mice.
2-button mice as standard would alienate and confuse most Mac users.
I hate Apple’s:
*brain-dead advertising
*”pretty” boxes (laptops being an exception)
*pricing
*expansion options
*lack of customised configuration options
*lack of decent software choices (especially OpenOffice, games and wonderful shareware/freeware found on Windows)
*slow OS
*aging hardware
When there is software, I hate their prices.
When there are add-on cards (ie. better 3D/CAD cards) I hate their ridiculous prices.
I hate the monitor being grafted to the computer on their lower-end iMac, never to be upgraded. In other words, I hate being taken for a ride just for using/buying a Mac.
Those issues would need to be overcome before I even consider get a Mac. They are the biggger issues for me.
What’s funny is that years ago, Macs were light-years ahead of Windows boxes. Today there are laregly the same, overall, with each of us having our preferences. I think Apple know they’re having a very hard time persuading Windows users to switch, or creative people to stay on their platform & spend big on hardware. Why else would they buy out Emagic and make Logic Audio Mac-only? Time will tell how successful they’ve been.
Can’t wait to see those “Windows/Linux users flocking to MacOSX” reflected in their market share. Only then we’ll know.
Every single person I know who actually used thier computer enough to feel the need to learn linux, has already switched, or is going to puchase a Mac for thier next computer.
It’s not even a real question, the only people who will be left using linux are x86 servers, and FSF dorks who need to get laid (not to troll, but seriously RMS is fucked up)
Am I the only one that thinks this guy is like the cutest thing on two legs?
Jeremiah: Small gripes: Luna is just ugly and is the first thing that I disable (along with the revised Start menu).
I bet he firstly never tried other colour schemes – most people who said Luna is ugly liked it after using Silver or Olive. Plus, I bet he never used the new Start menu extensively, like most people I know that hates it. I said almost the exact thing up there, and later on, as I start using Windows XP, I take back my complains.
(Sorry I’m late, just back from the worst vacation I ever had).
mpconnick: Sean, I suggest you take a hard look at the components that go into a consumer Mac (eMac, iMac, iBook) and then price them dollar for dollar with comparable products from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. I
Haha, this is easy. I’m using Gateway in this instance. (I’m using a customized 15″ version)
iMac:
700MHz or 800MHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine.
Profile 4:
Intel(R) Celeron(R) Processor 1.7GHz.
Winner
About the same.
iMac:
40GB Ultra ATA hard disk drive(1)
Profile 4:
40GB UATA100 7200RPM Hard Drive
Winner
Gateway’s hard disk is faster than the iMac’s.
iMac:
Combo, 12x CD-R, 8x CD-RW, 32x CD read, 8x DVD read.
Profile 4:
16x CD-R, 10x CDRW, 24x CD read, 8x DVD read.
Winner
The profile, faster.
iMac:
256MB SDRAM
Profile 4
256MB DDR RAM
Winner
Obviously, Gateway.
I could go on and on here, but Gateway wins, unless you are planning to burn DVD….. wait a minute, you are better off picking another Gateway desktop that comes with a DVD burner. Oh, I forgot, the Gateway wins in the price war, albeit by $30 (but the price difference is much much bigger if you aren’t living in US).
Plus, I have compared both ironically a few days ago (before my vacation), I would choose Gateway’s LCD screen over the iMac’s anytime.
mpconnick: Sounds like the Euro prices on hardware are inflated. In the US, that machine would be $1,199 dollars, which should equal about $1234 Euros based on today’s current exchange.
Heard of taxes?
willem: Multi button mice, contour shuttle pro, etc all work nicely in OS X.
If you are buying a Apple laptop, either get used to an external mouse (being a laptop user, not the ideal solution when travelling), or adapt to one button mouse.
jbolden1517: 1) A system compiler included in the OS
2) Free development tools (project builder)
Bundled is GCC. Downloadable for Windows (djcpp, IIRC).
I also tried the development tools that came with Jaguar, not all that fanstatic. If you are a developer and refuse to fork out money to buy quality IDEs from Borland or Microsoft….. well, you are probably a open source developer (something Windows isn’t friendly with).
jbolden1517: 4) A standard sound/video format (Quicktime integration)
In the courts, they are saying Microsoft violated the antitrust laws because of this.
jbolden1517: 5) A high power 3D library (opengl)
OpenGL is available on Windows, albeit not on the same level as OS X. Plus, because of Direct3D, OpenGL 2.0 is being developed. (Yeah, they are very different things….).
jbolden1517: 6) A server quality OS for $129
Uhmmm, Mac OS X Server is $499.00. Mac OS X (the $129.00 version) is as good as Windows XP Home/Pro, unless you fancy the terminal.
jbolden1517: 8) A full functioning built in Unix (darwin)
For many people, this isn’t a pro. Heck, for most people, they don’t even care. Being Unix-compatible, and based on BSD doesn’t mean it is as stable and robust as Solaris or AIX or HP-UX.
jbolden1517: 9) A free X server/client that runs rootless (XonX)
There are free X server that runs rootless on Windows NT. *Free*.
jbolden1517: 10) iApps
Most of MGI’s applications could beat iApps hands down in ease of use and features. But people still put iApps as a feature because it is bundled with the Macs.
But heck, most of the IRC Mac users I know DON’T use iApps at all.
mpconnick: Are you using a PC from a company like Dell, Compaq, or Gateway? If so, are you using the mouse that came with it?
Yeah…. and yeah. (HP laptop).
mpconnick: How much of an advantage is a two-button mouse to that type of user?
Easier to get to the context menus. Unlike NeXT which came with multibutton mouses, and OS 9 whose context menus are always available on the menu bar, OS X requires you to use the keyboard for context menus.
Call me a zealot. Call me a snob, call me elitist. I don’t care. I’ll call you names too. The truth is all that matters.
The truth is what Apple has created with OS X and the integrated apps is f***ing awesome. Is the computing world better off with it or without? Only a jealous poor PC retard would say without.
OK, you can take one look at winblows and OS X, and you see winblows is sorry-assed. Everything looks cluttered and blocky and gray. The icons look like TOTAL SH*T. The graphics system in OS X blows winchunks away 10X over. MS is supposedly working on a copy for the next gen of windows. What else is new. Follow, copy, that MS. That’s OK. That forces apple to keep pushing forward, and keeps them more honest on price. But like a copy, it doesn’t look as good as the original.
For example, Why should an OS be so hard to configure (for ordinary people), those dopey “Wizards” are needed. Most of the time they just get in the way and don’t solve the problem, in my experience with XP (yes I built an XP machine for games and just for fun). OS X doesn’t need them
Here’s a clue for the clueless: lots of people don’t want the confusing computer anymore. They want something you open up and use. That’s what apple’s going to sell out the wazoo if MS doesn’t improve things with winchunks and the joke included apps like Moviemaker (what a crock of sh**). And no, these people don’t want to go out and seach for 3d party stuff. That takes more time, doesn’t work half the time, etc. Of course MS will improve things. they are not dumb. Guess what, that expensive mac you whined about just helped out the computing world by embarrassing MS into doing something.
Personally, I don’t think MS can ever make it as good as a Mac for the simple reason that Apple makes the hardware and the software and can make it all work together better. But maybe one day the box makers and MS will work out the, shall we say, kinks, in getting stuff made by multiple companies to work as well. I doubt it, but we’ll see
PCs have their advantages. Games. Upgradeability. Price. More (mostly inferior) software. That’s why you buy a PC too like I have. Can’t afford that. Too bad. So go make some more money.
Yeah, the truth hurts. Some asked why is this thead going down as a PC vs. Mac war. Because making OS X a unix OS makes it attractive to a lot of people like the Switcher in question and anything that makes the mac better just is real painful for some people. They’re just ignorant losers that can’t stand that there’s a computer out there that, in most respects, is just superior to what they have bought. Sorry, but it’s true.
Can we please return the discussion to more interesting topics like the the so-called “stoned looking chick”? Is she the late twenties early thirties looking cute brunette who says “she just got rid of that thing” when referring to the Windows computer her parents got her? If so, isn’t she in another commercial somewhere?
My .02c
Jeeze man pull your head out of your ass. You think os10 looks better, who cares? Most people I know would say xp looks better, but then again we’re not trying to reassure ourselves that the 2 grand we just blew on a new imac was a wise decission. Moviemaker may be a crappy program, but no one other then mac fans are drooling over the iapps. I love how guys like you tow the party line for apple. Pre os10 you guys said mac was stable, but now that os10 is out you all admit “classic” crashed a ton. Meanwhile the entire time you act like windows crashes every boot up. Even though its as stable, if not more so, then mac. I bet 4 years ago you were mocking the command line just like you were supposed to, now that stevie included one in os10 you think its the second coming. btw explain to me how apples are so superior in most respects? Second rate hardware? Slow to adopt new hardware unless they are involved in its creation (agp for instance). Exceedingly high prices? Shitty bundled iapps? (its hilarous that a successful os maker, ms, gets in trouble for bundling apps, while one who’s been an inch from death 2 or 3 times does it and some of the same people all for suing ms cheer them on). I will give you this, the os is much nicer then it used to be, but I still prefer 2kpro.
NO, You pull your head out of your ass.
Regular people love the iApps. My mom uses iTunes and the iPod without even asking me a question (and believe me, she knows almost nothing about computers). My girlfriend (not a mac user) made a photo book with iPhoto and everyone couldn’t believe how beautiful it was. iMovie was revolutionary, in combo with firewire. With 2000 bucks you could do what was impossible without a 100K system just a few years prior. And anyone could do it, with just a few minutes of acquainting themselves with it. Wake up idiot.
Some people spend a lot of time with computers. They are like a hobby. Computers are gonna move out of the hobby/expert realm. The days of tinkering under the hood (like installing apps for things the computer should just do – like burn CDs) is going out — for most people. Apple is offering a complete package that does what people want “Standard”. It’s like buying a car. Do you really want to drive out of the lot without factory air and then hunt around for a 3d party AC system? Most people don’t want to. MS is going to have to offer a complete package just like Apple, mark my words. And then people will compare package to package. Right now Apple’s package is better for most people. MS has to catch up, meanwhile apple keeps adding more things. Fun to watch. That’s where the market is headed for “Personal Computers.” Servers, etc. may be different.
Same with “hardware”. Fixation with this is for Boys, the geeks, hobbyheads. What sells more, the Camry with all the key options standard, or kit cars with hot-rodded engines? This is the way the market is headed. Computing power anyway is becoming like a free commodity. Soon it will be like memory, dirt cheap.
It’s the software that matters. That’s the computer really. That’s what you interact with. That’s what’s confusing or easy. Productive or a pain in the ass.
If XP looks so great, why is MS so embarrassed it’s hard to even find photos of what they make (the OS and apps) on their website. Go to Apple’s website and you will find tons of desktop shots right out in front, very prominently displayed That alone should tell people something (except blind people like you).
Stop trying to change the subject to OS 9. Did it crash, yes a lot. So did Winchunks 98. Which was worse, I don’t know. The mac still had a very high quality GUI, very intuitive. But it was atop a 20 year old foundation.
If OS 9 is relevant at all today, I would say, it shows that you shouldn’t assume that what’s wrong with the mac will positively exist into the future. Apple had a problem. And boy did they fix it with OS X!!! I’m glad you’re so confident Apple will never fix the hardware problem. What exactly do you base that on? In time you will be eating crow.
It is an excellent point to bring up digital photography and movies, the opportunity to upload your pictures, for example, and have a near professional album sent to you and that sort of thing. Here at OSAlert (and this is understandable) so many are deeply into the “internal” aspects of computing, the OS, of course, the way things work. We should come up for air though and notice that the whole world has fallen in love with digital photography and home movies. Apple has been right there for this with iMovie, iPhoto and iDVD. In fact, I wonder where Apple would be right now without those and what it means for the Mac platform. I don’t mean to say that there are no Windows counterparts of course, but this is a big advantage for a company that controls both its software and hardware.
appleforever: The truth is what Apple has created with OS X and the integrated apps is f***ing awesome. Is the computing world better off with it or without? Only a jealous poor PC retard would say without.
Call me a jealous poor PC retard, but why would I and most of PC users need iApps? I won’t buy a Mac for a oversimplified suite of apps that look so ugly with their brush metal look when I could get the same things on Windows.
Most people compare iApps with the closest altenative *bundled* with Windows.
appleforever: OK, you can take one look at winblows and OS X, and you see winblows is sorry-assed. Everything looks cluttered and blocky and gray. The icons look like TOTAL SH*T. The graphics system in OS X blows winchunks away 10X over.
Sorry, I’m using Windows XP, and if it is cluttered and blocky and grey…. I could say the same for Aqua. Plus, I find the icons much more attractive and more usable than those found on Mac OS X.
The icons on Mac OS X were created for aestetic purposes, not usablity purposes. Ever seen roadsigns that uses photorealistic symbols? No! Why? Because simple symbols and cartoons can be understood much faster than photorealistic ones.
As for the graphics system, I have to give this one to you guys. But because of Aqua and tonnes of unneeded eye candy bogs it down, requiring Quartz Extreme, which uses the GPU’s VRAM.
appleforever: MS is supposedly working on a copy for the next gen of windows. What else is new. Follow, copy, that MS. That’s OK. That forces apple to keep pushing forward, and keeps them more honest on price. But like a copy, it doesn’t look as good as the original.
The next major version of Windows is Longhorn, due 2005. Tell me, how does it look like Mac OS X….. or in the first place, how would you know how it looks like? There is another release of Windows due 2003, but all the screenshots available are in ugly JPGs…
Another thing is how does Windows XP copies Mac OS X? It seems more the other way. Finder now copies Explorer-like toolbar, for example. Plus, the Preference is presented in a Finder/Explorer-like window. Not only that, it removes window shade button and places in a minimize/iconify button.
appleforever: Here’s a clue for the clueless: lots of people don’t want the confusing computer anymore. They want something you open up and use.
When I got my HP laptop, I open and use. Remember, it came with Windows XP, and I never used Windows extensively for 2 years prior to the laptop. I didn’t find the UI difficult. Nor was configuration. Remember, I never done this before, and I could do it WITHOUT looking at the help files. I just read the instructions.
Speaking of help files, ever seen Mac OS X 10.2’s help files? It is more of a promotional brochure.
appleforever: no, these people don’t want to go out and seach for 3d party stuff. That takes more time, doesn’t work half the time, etc.
Never seen a third party apps didn’t work half the time (except for Netscape on Windows 3.1). Also, companies like Dell and Sony bundle third party apps for computers that is geared for these kind of things.
Besides, why don’t Apple bundle Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, etc. on PowerMacs…. because people don’t want to find for 3rd party stuff. Also, you are forgeting the DOJ, if Microsoft bundles apps that does the same thing as iApps…. whoa, bye bye Windows (and perhaps Microsoft).
appleforever: Personally, I don’t think MS can ever make it as good as a Mac for the simple reason that Apple makes the hardware and the software and can make it all work together better.
Moot point. Want to get a piece of hardware that works with Windows right out the box? Any tier-one/two OEM would and should provide that. In fact, if you use a IBM PC, the integration of hardware and software is higher than of Macs.
Most people complain that when installing Windows XP, they have to go out and find the drivers….. don’t they have to do the same for Mac OS X? I remember going to Mac OS X help forums, not a pretty sight.
appleforever: PCs have their advantages. Games. Upgradeability. Price. More (mostly inferior) software. That’s why you buy a PC too like I have. Can’t afford that. Too bad. So go make some more money.
Tell me, why are Windows software more inferior that of Mac OS’s apps? Most Mac OS X apps are available on Windows, some at better quality as the Mac OS version. For example, Photoshop 7 is available on Windows and Mac OS. And from all that I heard from it, it always crashes on Mac OS X (ironically, never heard a complaint of crashing on Mac OS 9 and Windows).
appleforever: Yeah, the truth hurts.
No wonder you are ignorant to it.
appleforever: Regular people love the iApps. My mom uses iTunes and the iPod without even asking me a question (and believe me, she knows almost nothing about computers).
My mum uses SoundPlay and BeOS without asking a question. Heck, I even got her to use WinAMP (whom she didn’t ask any questions) and WMP 9.0 (again, the same phenomenon). Unless they can’t read, I have no idea why iTunes is better than what is available on Windows. (Note: my mum hates all things with earphones)
appleforever: My girlfriend (not a mac user) made a photo book with iPhoto and everyone couldn’t believe how beautiful it was.
My granduncle did an increbidle photo book for my cousin’s wedding. Guess what he used? Windows. Guess what his age is? 70-something.
appleforever: The days of tinkering under the hood (like installing apps for things the computer should just do – like burn CDs) is going out — for most people.
I don’t see what’s so hard in installing apps. Besides, burning CDs can be done from Explorer in XP. It can be done in WMP. In fact, this was done way before OS X got its CD burning capablities.
And does Apple properly supports CD-RW as a rewritable media (like hard disks?) I found no third party apps that supports it. (And the next version of Windows comes with Mt. Rainer support).
appleforever: Do you really want to drive out of the lot without factory air and then hunt around for a 3d party AC system?
Why would PCs need a third party AC, especially when Macs don’t?
appleforever: If XP looks so great, why is MS so embarrassed it’s hard to even find photos of what they make (the OS and apps) on their website.
There are more screenshots of Windows XP on http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/ than on http://www.apple.com/macosx/.
appleforever: Stop trying to change the subject to OS 9. Did it crash, yes a lot. So did Winchunks 98. Which was worse, I don’t know. The mac still had a very high quality GUI, very intuitive. But it was atop a 20 year old foundation.
When OS 9 was around, and Windows 98 was around, I couldn’t count the amount of times a Mac zealot would say it is more stable that Windows, never mind the fact that Windows 2000 was out.
OS 9’s UI was a great intuitive UI. I can’t say the same for OS X. Apple threw it all out, and made a terrible mishmash of OS 9 and NeXT UI elements. For example, in OS 9 you can access context menus from the menubar, could you do the same for native OS X apps?
Plus, Apple itself doesn’t follow its HI guidelines. iCal and iChat broke one rule, on whether to use Aqua or brush metal, for example. Another main offencer is AppleWorks.
appleforever: I’m glad you’re so confident Apple will never fix the hardware problem. What exactly do you base that on?
I’m guessing “history”.