Submitted by Dell began polling customers about their software preferences on Tuesday as part of an effort by the struggling PC vendor to meet a popular request for desktops and notebooks that run on Linux instead of Windows. Dell posted the survey on a company blog, asking PC users to choose between Linux flavors such as Fedora and Ubuntu, and to pick more general choices such as notebooks versus desktops, high-end models versus value models and telephone-based support versus community-based support.
There’s one vote for Novell SuSe.
same thing for me
dell already support novell… very easy to support opensuse
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There’s one vote for Novell SuSe.
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A fine choice!
I voted for Ubuntu.
But it doesn’t really matter. I don’t care if it’s Suse or Ubuntu or Fedora or Linspire or Xandros.
If the box comes with any of those, I know I can make all its hardware work with Linux.
As long as its not Gentoo or Windows that they preload, I’m happy as a clam!
I was with you until you said no preloaded Gentoo. If Dell will precompile a Gentoo desktop for me I will sing their praises from the highest mountain. I currently use Ubuntu but if someone’s willing to do the work for me, sure I’ll use Gentoo.
Preloading Gentoo would be moronic. Gentoo is aimed at experienced Linux users, precisely the kind of person that would probably NOT buy a Dell. A user friendly, desktop-optimized, graphical-installer distro with lots of support on the web is the way they’ll go, if anything.
Gentoo would spit in the face of all logic.
Not true. If you’re talking about desktops maybe, but I want to run Gentoo on a laptop and don’t want to jump through hoops to get things working on an unsupported laptop.
Yes, I can build my own desktops for gentoo, but not my own laptop.
“Yes, I can build my own desktops for gentoo, but not my own laptop.”
Ignoring the fact that Dell’s average target consumer CAN’T build a desktop, lets expand this a bit:
“Yes, I can build my own desktops for Linux/BSD, but not my own laptop.”
If I want a desktop computer, I have the ability to sit down and research the hardware. I can specifically choose Linux/BSD compatible parts. The CLOSEST that exists for BYO Laptops are “whitebox” systems that only let you choose processor, ram, hard drive, and optical drive. If the video card doesn’t have great driver support in linux, or any driver support, you’re stuck with VESA. If the sound card is some weird chipset, you have no sound. In a desktop system, someone with moderate experience can change out a video and sound card, and most distros that I’ve seen the past couple years are robust enough to detect that the old hardware is gone and new hardware is in. Laptops don’t offer the ability to change the graphics chip or the sound card.
However, at the same time, I agree with those who thought the “Linux Std Base Certified” stickers were a good idea. Make the hardware compatible, then on all LSB Certified hardware choices, make it so that people can choose to either have it with no OS, get it with Dell’s preferred linux preinstalled, or get it with Windows.
Gentoo is aimed at experienced Linux users, precisely the kind of person that would probably NOT buy a Dell.
Maybe, maybe not. Ever thought that the reason why “experienced Linux users” would not buy a Dell is that until now (hopefully, anyway), Dell has been “firmly a prisoner of the Wintel monopoly” as a friend would put it? If they preload Gentoo, maybe Gentooers will come.
I DO think it’s unlikely, but neither stupid, moronic nor “spitting in the face of all logic”.
This experienced Linux user builds his own boxes, always has, and would not be comfortable buying Dell’s proprietary stuff.
But for clients, we do sell Dell. It makes sense. They have good support plans at good prices. (Better than the company I work for… but we overcharge, IMO. And yes, I’m considering leaving after 19 years.)
But I’m pretty sure that their prices would have to go *way* up for a box with Gentoo on it.
It’s the USE flags that sank Gentoo’s boat.
http://tinyurl.com/2yybpg
This experienced Linux user builds his own boxes, always has, and would not be comfortable buying Dell’s proprietary stuff.
This ELU doesn’t. He may be in a numerically small minority, but his disability means he’s unable to do fiddly work like insert RAM into sockets without supervision. This ELU might well be able to forgo building his own boxes with help if he could get it done by a commercial vendor without the MS tax. Plus, if anything goes hardwarily wrong with Dells, he doesn’t have to do the work to find out what himself.
But I’m pretty sure that their prices would have to go *way* up for a box with Gentoo on it.
Possibly/probably, but I don’t really expect them to do it anyway – I simply maintain it would be fantastic.
It’s the USE flags that sank Gentoo’s boat.
In what way? Without them, what would be the point of Gentoo? I think most Gentooers would say that USE flags are what make the distro. It’s detractors would agree, but then Ubuntu’s detractors would say that the Ubuntu hype and lack of hardware compatibility sank Ubuntu’s boat. Doesn’t mean they don’t each have their place.
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This ELU doesn’t. He may be in a numerically small minority, but his disability means he’s unable to do fiddly work like insert RAM into sockets without supervision.
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It’s really not difficult. If you like Gentoo, you’d like working with hardware… once you got the hang of it.
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I think most Gentooers would say that USE flags are what make the distro.
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Oh they do… over and over again… in any forum they can find… Linux related or not. You don’t even have to ask them.
-Steve
Did I mention that USE flags are what make Gentoo?
Sorry Steve, you did ask for it
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Did I mention that USE flags are what make Gentoo?
Sorry Steve, you did ask for it
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Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!
Was that really necessary?
Edited 2007-03-14 15:29
While I agree that there’re better distros to preload (I’d probably pick ubuntu or kubuntu), that’s just because gentoo installs stuff from source, which takes more time.
User friendly? You have GUIs for it’s package manager, same as on other distros, and apps are launched the same way: click on the icon. You’ll be using kde/gnome/E/whatever anyway, it’s not as if gentoo had it’s own deliberately-obfuscated-only-suitable-for-geeks desktop environment.
Desktop-optimized? Just bundle a ck patched kernel.
Graphical installer? What for, if it’ll be preloaded? You could still go with a gentoo derivate such as vidalinux, if you really thought the installer was a must.
Support on the web? Well, it’s hard to beat gentoo’s documentation and community support.
You cannot ignore the fact that if a Linux newbie got online to find some Gentoo help, he would be over his head in many cases.
This is not an attack on Gentoo, but rather a statement that this would not be a very smart choice for a company like Dell.
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You cannot ignore the fact that if a Linux newbie got online to find some Gentoo help, he would be over his head in many cases.
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Agreed.
The Gentoo Creed: Be Your Own Beta Tester.
Likely no one on this earth has chosen the same combination of packages and USE flags that you have.
Gentoo is great for those who enjoy spelunking.
But Dell’s customers expect handrails on the way down, and a gift shop and snack bar at the bottom.
I don’t agree with this, and I don’t really know where this perception comes from. It seems to suggest that the Gentoo documentation or forums are less user-friendly than other distros, which simply isn’t true.
(That’d be the dev mailing-lists.
Also, with Gentoo, when something fails to install, you get some great meaningful feedback on what went wrong. 99% of the time, even if you don’t understand what the output means, you can pin it to a message in the forum and it will soon be picked up by someone who does. This really is no different from any other distro.
You cannot ignore the fact that if a Linux newbie got online to find some Gentoo help, he would be over his head in many cases.
This is not an attack on Gentoo, but rather a statement that this would not be a very smart choice for a company like Dell.
Well, then, in the (as I maintain) extremely unlikely event that they DO offer a Gentoo option, they can simply state that it should be used by Linux experts only. Or call it the “SadGeek Option” or something. I don’t think you’ll find we’ll care – any Linux user who by now is not sufficiently inured to being called a sad geek has probably flipped anyway.
If you haven’t voted yet, please stop reading this discussion now and fill out the survey!!
These are truly exciting times to be a Linux and/or free software enthusiast. The community has been fed its share of lip service and toe dragging in its quest to see Linux made available to the mass market. From the Lenovo T60p press release to Dell’s recent Ideastorm, we have become accustomed to being recognized by OEMs, but we had yet to see any real consideration on their part. They seemed to realize that not everybody wants Windows, but they didn’t seem to be open to the possibility that the market for Linux desktop clients is potentially huge.
These past few weeks, IMHO, represent a turning point in the way the Linux desktop market is perceived by the top-tier OEMs. Big screens and fast CPUs are nice, but what consumers really want these days is better software. They want reliable and efficient software that’s easy and fun to use, and they want a comprehensive desktop experience right out of the box.
The big OEMs are currently offering us incredibly powerful computers with the same crufty and bare-bones selection of software we’ve been getting for over a decade. It’s time that OEMs add real value to their products by actually offering a desktop system, not just a PC with Windows and maybe Office.
Anyone can build a Windows PC and sell it for razor-thin margins. OEMs have to innovate to remain profitable, and a great way to do this is to bundle their PCs with a well thought-out free software desktop implementation. Everything you need to be productive, right out of the box, with tons of additional free software easily available, automatic updates free-of-charge, and not a single product key involved.
It’s great that we continue to impress and overwhelm Dell other OEMs with the size, strength, and support of our community. It’s important that we reach out to these OEMs and support their efforts to understand and serve our community. As knowledgeable Linux users, we’re their best source of information, and we shouldn’t hesitate to offer our insights. A high-quality and successful Linux desktop product from a top-tier OEM would obviously be huge for Linux and free software in general. I look forward to doing my part as Dell and other OEMs take serious steps toward making this happen, and I encourage you all do the same.
What he said.
You’re a cool guy Butters.
100% agreed.
Big screens and fast CPUs are nice, but what consumers really want these days is better software. They want reliable and efficient software that’s easy and fun to use, and they want a comprehensive desktop experience right out of the box.
Sounds like something a Mac would provide more than Linux. I would never recommend Linux to anybody who just wants it to work out of the box, unless they had a resident Linux guru next door. Of course, I wouldn’t recommend Windows in this senario either, but there are a lot of Windows gurus around
Anyone can build a Windows PC and sell it for razor-thin margins. OEMs have to innovate to remain profitable, and a great way to do this is to bundle their PCs with a well thought-out free software desktop implementation.
Only problem is, for better or worse, the only way a lot of these companies are able to make money from selling PCs rock-bottom prices is by bundling ‘crapplets’ with the OS, such as MacAfee, etc. If you take this away by offering nothing but free software, you have removed a significant source of revenue stream for the OEMs.
If I were Dell, this is what I would do …
There’s no way in hell I would offer Linux out of the box and effectively double my support costs by having to train tech support on another OS that less than 5% of the population would end up using for the foreseeable future. Plus, if you were to choose one distro over the others, that’s just a pissing contest waiting to happen.
So, I’d make a PC model that included hardware that was compatable with the latest versions of:
– Ubuntu
– Suse
– Fedora
… and offer the PC without an OS with no support whatsoever, with the condition that I could guarantee that the hardware would work with the above Linux distros. I mean, I wouldn’t bother to write device drivers myself, but simply use devices that already work with zero configuration necessary on the user’s part.
IMHO, I think most Linux users would be happy with the above configuration, as they’re used to fending for themselves anyway. At least they’d know that the hardware was going to work out of the box.
Edited 2007-03-14 05:21
Agreed, just some small objections. First, in some countries there’s a law saying you can’t offer fully built PC’s without the OS. So Dell would have to slap something in there anyway. Sure, they can use FreeDOS, but it would be a nice touch to actually put Linux on them, if they’re going for the Linux compatibility and all. They can ask Ubuntu/SuSE/Mandriva to prepare disk images, offer them as a choice, and just paste them on top of the HDD, without support. I bet Ubuntu/SuSE/Mandriva would like the opportunity. Red Hat might too, if Fedora wasn’t an already established “test distro”, and their main effort directed to the server market.
Second, make no mistake, this is not about Linux. It’s about Dell’s profits. Which are slipping, and you can search the Roughly Drafted articles for figures that put it behind HP and Apple. And don’t think Microsoft is taking this lightly. Dell must be pretty desperate to try to cash in on the Linux crowd. For their sake I hope they get the 100% compatibility right and refrain from bundling any crapware, otherwise they’ll lose whatever small favor they build up and lose the Linux crowd forever.
And one for OpenSuSe. I wouldn’t mind Ubuntu either though. Actually, I wouldn’t mind *any* distro, providing that everything works (all hardware including sound, wifi, … and software such as Compiz/Beryl, 3D accelleration enabled, …)
I’m very happy that Dell has decided to uptake at the least the idea of Linux. There’s more information on the Direct2Dell blog, where you can read about the survey.
I’m glad they at least took the time for a survey to see what users want (what level of system, what distro, what kind of support). I would stick with either RHED, Suse, or Ubuntu LTS. Fedora and inbetween Ubuntu releases are too often for support (plus a user can always upgrade to Ubuntu’s newest version, or trade out RHED for Fedora if they want the latest).
Let’s see if they decide to actively pursue Linux for the desktop!
Dell should stop wasting our time with their silly polls, if they have no plans to really offer a Linux option.
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Dell should stop wasting our time with their silly polls, if they have no plans to really offer a Linux option.
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Well, they say that they are overwhelmed by our responses and that their survey server is overloaded.
Probably an automated response.
Maybe if we turn it into a cloud of vapor, they’ll notice?
Edited 2007-03-14 00:54
Who said that they are not interested? They’re a huge company, they have to get it right… it will cost loads of money to correct it latter if they f*!k up. It’s not like you installing a linux distro and seeing that it’s not for you.
Dell could have thousands of customers complaining, they need to know what they’re complaining about so that they can recieve the correct trainning (the technical support people). What’s the point in dell training people to use <your choice of linux> when maybe only two people a year want to buy a PC with it pre-installed.
At least give them a chance to get it right before you moan… I don’t know why Dell bother. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Edited 2007-03-14 07:44
Personally I’m not interested in Linux and would instead love to see a FreeBSD desktop variant as an option besides ‘other’.
“Personally I’m not interested in Linux and would instead love to see a FreeBSD desktop variant as an option besides ‘other’.”
Well, at least it is an improvement over forcing Windows on users.
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Personally I’m not interested in Linux and would instead love to see a FreeBSD desktop variant as an option besides ‘other’.
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Hey. Here’s a clue. Start making FreeBSD usable by regular people on the desktop. Spend about 15 years doing the PR and marketing work.
And get a journaling filesystem while you’re at it.
FreeBSD is not an option because the FreeBSD community has not done what it takes for FreeBSD to become an option.
Do that and I’d give you my vote in an instant.
There is far more to success in this market than just technical concerns.
Edited 2007-03-14 01:03
Hey. Here’s a clue.
No need to be so aggressive, man.
Start making FreeBSD usable by regular people on the desktop.
They’ve started, and they’re not too far behind Linux. They’re on par with OpenSolaris x86 in desktop usability.
Spend about 15 years doing the PR and marketing work.
They’ve been around for 15 years. Linux owes a lot of its market exposure to Red Hat. When Red Hat first came around, FreeBSD was arguably better than Debian or Slackware.
And get a journaling filesystem while you’re at it.
Did some idiot hijack your account? UFS2 has soft updates, an alternative to journaling that orders and delays metadata writes such that the filesystem always remains consistent. The advantage of this approach is that the filesystem can be mounted immediately after a crash and purged of orphaned data blocks by a garbage collector during idle times. The disadvantage is that it’s a more sophisticated and difficult design than journaling. This is the main reason why filesystem research has largely abandoned soft updates in favor of copy-on-write (COW) designs such as ZFS, which is now functional on FreeBSD and slated for the 7.x release series.
So the question is, why doesn’t Linux go get a COW filesystem? Well, they’re working on it, but it will take a few years.
FreeBSD and OpenSolaris are both very viable base operating systems for the free software desktop. Sure, Linux has more momentum, and it’s the most successful distributed development community the world has ever known, but it’s too early to count them out. They’re all really good, and I’d love to see all of them distributed by the various OEMs. That would be outstanding for the competitive landscape of the free software desktop, ensuring rapid advances in the quality and capability of its foundations.
Edited 2007-03-14 03:24
‘They’ve started, and they’re not too far behind Linux. They’re on par with OpenSolaris x86 in desktop usability.’
— the distance between BSD and Linux is about as wide as the distance between Linux and Windows. No offence to you and your choice of OS, but until normal people start talking about BSD you won’t see it on any dell.
And not just technical differences. I’m a windows user, but I’m aware of Linux and BSD and as far as I’m can see from screenshots they look the same. Why would I care if dell offers bsd or not? Don’t mention technical reasons… the normal user couldn’t give a sh!t if the code behind BSD is more elegantly written and more efficient or whatever other reason you have for using BSD.
You can hope for it, but don’t hold your breath
“the distance between BSD and Linux is about as wide as the distance between Linux and Windows.”
Since you’re a Windows user who’s just “aware of Linux and BSD” you’re not really one to make that statement.
“Why would I care if dell offers bsd or not? Don’t mention technical reasons… the normal user couldn’t give a sh!t if the code behind BSD is more elegantly written and more efficient or whatever other reason you have for using BSD.”
So then there’s actually no good reason for Dell NOT to offer BSD instead since they’re pretty much technically equal and Joe Average wouldn’t care?
‘Since you’re a Windows user who’s just “aware of Linux and BSD” you’re not really one to make that statement.’
— Yes I can, I don’t have to use Linux to say whether or not dell should sell BSD pre-loaded. Or how far apart certain oss are from each other. Any one can make an observation. My observation of the distance between Linux and BSD are valid. Whether you agree with them or not is another matter.
‘So then there’s actually no good reason for Dell NOT to offer BSD instead since they’re pretty much technically equal and Joe Average wouldn’t care?’
—
You miss the point of my comment. It doesn’t matter what the average user cares about. It’s what dell cares about… the demand for BSD from dell is less than Linux. This is a fact. That’s all that matters (to Dell – you of course are entitled to go on about why they should as long as you want). Also if the average user doesn’t care there is no need to offer Linux since the average user wont buy it… they won’t, as you put it, care.
Edited 2007-03-14 12:20
“Also if the average user doesn’t care there is no need to offer Linux since the average user wont buy it… they won’t, as you put it, care. ”
No, they will buy whatever is on it as long as that whatever can do the tasks they need it to, be it Windows, Linux, BSD or something else.
Well, then they won’t be buying them. Since they will not be able to do what they want. Edit, view, and save office documents with 100% compatibility, play the latest games with their friends, author flash swf files, use industry standard apps for work: Photoshop, Director, etc., use MSN chat and ALL it’s features to communicate with their friends……
So then there’s actually no good reason for Dell NOT to offer BSD instead since they’re pretty much technically equal and Joe Average wouldn’t care?
You’re forgetting that the only people who will buy Dell’s Linux (or BSD) would-be PC’s are already well aware of Linux/BSD and their advantages over Windows. You are unlikely to see conversions from this. The average user who doesn’t know anything will all the more NOT order his new Dell with some strange thing on it instead of good old Vista which he’s hearing about left and right.
Two Words:
PC-BSD
FreeBSD doesn’t have the drivers home users will want.
Things like WebCams, amoungst other USB devices, for instance…
Where’s the second word? I see just one, maybe you should have taken the hyphen away if you wanted two words
Personally I’m not interested in Linux and would instead love to see a FreeBSD desktop variant as an option besides ‘other’.
Well, I’m a 100% linux guy and don’t care about FreeBSD. Someone loves Ubuntu, someone SLED, someone RH. See the pattern? No real solution here.
This why I specified other and said I would like “works with linux” sticker. Most of the linux HCL hardware can be supported if not yet in any other OS. Linux is just the best starting point because it has the biggest number of drivers. In your case one could just get two cases, you probably wouldn’t like the predefault FreeBSD (and you’re probably capable to set it up your self), FreeBSD could take on some drivers if needed because if they would be picked from HCL it would mean they can be implemented in FeeBSD too.
In case of HCL hardware they could just put all choices on the menu. Each and every one would work out of the box and their both free versions have very good community support. While in case of commercial, customers would buy that one too.
FreeBSD is at the same state in user adoption terms as linux was some years ago. A very capable server and developer/hobbyist desktop.
Until the BSDs are getting the sort of press and user base that linux is now, you’re stuck with win or lin.
At least you’ll be able to buy a Dell linux box without the “Windows tax” you’d have to pay if you bought one now.
Besides, are you telling me that as a FreeBSD user you’d accept Dell’s install and not want to roll your own? :o)
I totally fail to see what FreeBSD offers over Linux for the average Dell buyer…. am prepared to be enlightened
xxmf
That’s fair enough, but, even if Linux came preinstalled, whatever distro was chosen there’d be a fair few (perhaps the majority) of us (Linux users) would buy these systems in preference to a Windows machine, even if they had to reinstall their own favourite Linux distro. But (a) at least we’d know that the hardware was supported in Linux, and (b) at least we wouldn’t be paying money to a corporation whose software we weren’t going to use (and hopefully (c) at least we could get them at the same price or cheaper than Windows machines). I realize (a) might not apply to FreeBSD users, but (b) and (c) should.
We all remember what happened last time Dell experimented with Linux on the desktop.
There was very little demand and Linux thing was dropped in 2001.
If Dell decides to try again what things can they and Linux users do to ensure this evaluation a success?
Linux needs advertisment where it really counts! TV, radio, magazines, bill boards, subway stations, etc. These advertisments should not make any connection with Windows; just tout the good aspects of Linux and the cool features it has to offer end-users.
Edited 2007-03-13 23:44
I agree whole-heartedly. Having the product is not enough. Dell needs to give it a full hearted attempt, and not something that is simply to look like they’re trying.
There have been a lot of advances since 2001, especially in the desktop market. More and more people are seeing Linux as a viable alternative desktop for average users. Also, I believe that when Linux was offered before by Dell, there was little to no marketing, and only a limited selection.
I think Dell would be surprised by the growth of desktop linux. There are plenty of vendors that can handled contracted support (Red Hat, Novell, Canonical).
Dell could really profit from being the first top-tier OEM to offer pre-installed Linux. I believe there is a larger demand for Linux by both enthusiasts, home users, and businesses. All Dell needs is solid products with Linux, and decent marketing. If they really want to share in the spirit, they could even approach LoCo’s and developers of different distros to gain their input on strategies.
Just tout the good aspects of Linx and the cool features it offers.
I agree 100%. Or 99%. How a about a FREE photo, video and music studio? Thousands of FREE downloadable programs just ONE click away? FREE secure, spy-safe internet communication and protected disk storage? Fancy some powerful office tools as well, well why not some FREE ones? And what do you say about this FREE and slick 3D desktop? Still need to use some MS every now and then – take this FREE virtualizer (psst, this is also great for backuping your windows system or run the exact same system on both a laptop and a desktop if you need to)!
I think you overdid the “free” a little :p
I’d rather they’d emphasize, “quality”.
Haha, just got a bit excited there. But nah, I don’t think quality is so important anyway, as long as I get some FREE beer to go
It’s sad to say but, at least in Spain, the “free” is not the way.
I’m the only person I know who doesn’t have pirated software on his/her computer. So, they have all for free so… what’s the point?
And about quality… people just want their stuff to work, they don’t care about anything. They want photoshop to work (even if it’s cracked), they want to be able to install the sync app for their cell phone…
As said before: sad, really sad
Damnshock
Linux needs advertisment where it really counts! TV, radio, magazines, bill boards, subway stations, etc.
Ads are useless if you don’t have a good brand…that’s why I voted for Ubuntu. Is it the best distro? Well, to each his own. I use it and I like it, but I’m sure there are other good distros out there – however, for the home desktop, there’s no other distro that resonates with as many new users as Ubuntu.
Dell could also provide a Dell-themed Ubuntu derivative for their business PCs, though I’m pretty sure that for those they would rather go with Novell/SuSE.
there’s no other distro that resonates with as many new users as Ubuntu.
That might be true for geeks who spent too much time on the internet (like me), but I’ll be you that among your average computer literate windows user, who may or may not be considering linux, Red Hat is far more known. My former totally non-techie boss knew that Red Hat was something you could install on your servers instead of windows, hell my parents have heard of Red Hat. I’ll be you non of them have heard of Ubuntu.
So it really depends on who Dell wants to attract.
Actually my personal experience contradicts yours somewhat. What I found is that people who did hear about Linux a couple of years ago are more likely to know RedHat, while those who have heard of it more recently tend to identify Linux with Ubuntu.
In any case, I wasn’t necessarily talking about name recognition, but about the general response to the brand itself. I’ve had co-workers come up to me and ask me if I knew anything about this new “Ubuntu” thing, not knowing that this was the distro I ran (well, Kubuntu, but close enough).
What you say may have been true at a certain point, but I do believe that Ubuntu has in fact stolen the spotlight from RedHat as the one with the most mindshare at this point.
SUSE or RH with codeweaver to run MS Apps.
Lets face it all businesses use MS Office and would need additional time to migrate to full open source apps. Very few in Business actually use OS functions aside from some hobbiest. Majority of work is APPs driven.
Which opens a second question… Would Linux be able to run ERP-Financial software which many business actually use like SAP, Oracle and many others.
You could via browser like Mozilla. That would eliminate and costly migration costs like new code upgrades or software.
What’s a “hobbiest”?
Perhaps you meant “hobbyist”?
A pet peeve of mine.
“loose”, “loosed”, and “loosing” are top tier.
“hobbiest”, I suppose, could be considered second tier.
It’ll be really good to see Linux pre-loaded on Dell PCs. Good on you, Dell!
No current Linux distribution I have found has gotten the user interaction and experience to a level that just makes sense.
Windows lost that with Vista’s new Start menu, IMHO, as well, so it becomes less of a loss.
Second, you need a simple universal package manager that can handle every type of package, and can ALWAYS handles ALL dependencies, and gives the user very simple choices.
Third, the software should seem to reflect the hardware it is on. Meaning that if there are two DVD drives, it should look different ( regardless of a disc being present ) than if the machine had just one DVD Drive, or even a DVD and a Blu-Ray… the technology sells the user as well as advertising space!
This is the in-your-face features you want to see. A user can easily comprehend that the DVD icon that came up on their Desktop was the one they just inserted, and they can understand why it would disappear ( or animate over to the Trash icon, to expose another ‘required’ interface feature ) when they open the drive to eject the disc.
The interface needs to be setup to give the user a ‘wow’ feeling everytime. Otherwise it will fail against Windows with the vast amount of software available for it that all installs in only one of a few ways:
1. Download, Run, Next->Next->Next->Finish->Installed.
2. Insert CD, wait…, wait…, click Install, etc…
3. Extract Zip file, find Setup.exe, run it.
Easy.
I don’t want to even get started on the hassles involved with the intermingling of Desktop with Developer systems.
Essentially, you can do it with Linux if you keep the distribution limited in compatibility, and can provide for the needs lost, or have a really neat way of providing compatibility while simply creating handlers for the other package types (RPMs or what-not) which let the user know that the package needs to be converted to something else first ( in which case it should really just be automatic, with a dialog showing progress, and display an error if any occur ).
Oh well, Dell could do it if they decided to use their own software teams to work on Linux ( except they know nothing of it in most cases, so that will require different talent ).
I use to work for Dell, I was excited about it, and viewed it as a possible career move. It took only about five minutes to realize the place wasn’t run for any reason except for money, and most of the claims were blatant lies ( such as being PC-Compatible ( ever try non-Dell memory in a Dell ( or PSU or motherboard ) ?)!
The training took 7 weeks, but only about half of the people who made it through the (paid) training would be left at 6 months, and only 1/25 would remain after about a year, with it being highly unlikely anyone would be there longer than that. Not people quitting (only), but people getting fired for no other reason than one manager having a bad day ( which was my case.. I was fired because of one guy ( ex-cop ) who used the natural confusion that comes with having six managers running a single room of 25 trainees ( while doing nothing in particular, just waiting for people to get back from lunch ) to get me ( and three other people who actually had a clue about what they were doing ) fired so that the rest of the class wouldn’t have to worry about catching up to us!
I GOT FIRED FROM DELL, FOR BEING SMART!
Of course, they didn’t call it that, and because I had only been there for three weeks, I could not collect any type of unemployment, I had spent more money on clothing for the job than I made there, and I couldn’t be hired back by Dell ( for 90 days or so officially, never in reality ), but worse than that, because I was hired through Spherion, and Spherion’s agreement with Dell stated that if Dell fired someone, Spherion couldn’t rehire them for any reason either… That screwed me out of what I thought was my final answer to never being able to find a job.
So much for that!
Beware of ALL corporations! If the only reason a business remains open is to generate profits, then they do not care about quality, product sanity, or even the true nature of the business they were once in ( before they entered solely and wholly into the business of making money ).
–The loon
SMART is almost a universal package manager, although it doesn’t support some of the niche package formats like Pacman or Conary.
Developing software for Linux won’t be hard when various standards like LSB are targetted. Linux distributions that are compliant with the standards should be fine. Distros that deviate from the norm, such as GoboLinux, will have to figure out a way to get the software to work themselves.
As for your experience with Dell:
The only companies not driven by the desire of money are non-profit organizations. But even they must recieve donations inorder to fullfill their tasks.
Having worked at Dell I can tell you the “desire of money” is much worse than anywhere I have ever worked. Its soul crushing.
Also, I now work for a non-profit and we receive no donations.
“1. Download, Run, Next->Next->Next->Finish->Installed.
2. Insert CD, wait…, wait…, click Install, etc…
3. Extract Zip file, find Setup.exe, run it. ”
too hard…
on the web you risk to take a virus or spyware…
it’s easier on linux to install a software…
go on the package manager and click….
That is if there is a package manager, and it has repositories that are up to date and not on a CD.
someone posted about LinuxBIOS on their blog. I think that’s a great idea. 5 seconds or whatever it is to start the computer up vs 2 minutes for Windows would be a great and tangible incentive for business and home users to choose Linux, other than price.
Not to mention fine-grained power management, ultimate tweakability (overclocking anyone?), crash dumps from the BIOS, remote management of an unresponsive system, securing the superuser account, a BIOS that isn’t primary meant to hide the secret functionality of the hardware…
With a full-featured free software operating system in firmware, the possibilities are endless. If combined with a dedicated ARM service processor, it could be revolutionary.
Edited 2007-03-14 04:07
very good points re: LinuxBIOS, plus improved battery support. They could also rebrand it, change code (and contribute back) and do anything they wanted to as well. Hopefully Dell will see the benefits of LBIOS that the OLPC is getting, because that one machine itself is pretty damn revolutionary.
http://fosdem.org/2007/interview/ronald+g+minnich
”
OLPC is designed from the start as an open system. The chip specs are wide open (with one or two exceptions still being resolved); the board schematics are there for all to see. Because the system is open, OLPC can avoid using “standards” such as ACPI, which mainly exist to protect closed interfaces. OLPC can thus integrate functions into the firmware and kernel that, on other systems, would be locked away in the BIOS and ACPI. OLPC as a result will have far better control over power, and hence far better suspend/resume performance, than any laptop in existence. This improvement will be dramatic — the system will resume so fast it will seem instantaneous. And, it will have a battery life that will be equally surprising for people used to commercial laptops.
OLPC will show what is possible with an open system that is not oriented to preserving proprietary interfaces and information. The customers will benefit, and, we hope, put pressure on other laptop vendors to provide a similarly high quality environment.
”
Edited 2007-03-14 05:26
I don’t like to post the same link twice but why choose Dell when you have:
http://system76.com/index.php
Nice site and products, but:
We only ship to within the United States and Canada.
Does anyone know about a similar site for people leaving on the other side of the pond?
rehdon
Linuxemporium and Transtec ship laptops with Ubuntu/Suse/+ optional Windows, and no OS, respectively. However, although I have bought CD’s from LE in the past I have no idea what either of these co’s laptops is like:
http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/
http://www.transtec.co.uk/
Dell won’t change. Dell has dipped their fingers in this before and Microsoft spanked them for it.
If it DOES indeed happen, and you can sell ice cold lemonade to people in Hell, then it’ll be a sure bet that Microsoft will end up choosing the distro for them – and I wonder which one it will be. Hmmmmmmmmmm…
“””
If it DOES indeed happen, and you can sell ice cold lemonade to people in Hell,
“””
I imagine that the Lemonade market in Hell would be a very good one. You should patent that business model!
I suspect that the distro, should Dell ship one, would be SLED, simply based upon technical considerations. And business considerations, too. SLED is designed for this use more than any other.
I’m far from a Suse fan. Don’t care for Suse myself, really. I voted for Ubuntu.
But SLED probably makes a lot of sense and I’d be happy to see it offered.
Who put the bee in your bonnet?
I also voted for SLED but not because i prefer it over others, but because of all the distros mentioned it is easiest to support. Truthfully i am supprised fedora was even mentioned with how buggy it tends to be.
To me in business applications SLED is by far the best bet. The same is true for newb home users. Honestly, even experienced users will benefit from this because they will have a system that ships with guaranteed full linux compatability.
If dell goes through with this and is successful, you will see a lot more webcams, soundcards, and video cards that have SLED and Windows both listed on the compatability list. And if it works with suse, it likely works with most every other distro.
I might add before anybody flames … i will be very supprised if SLED doesn’t get the vote if Dell does this. I am a Gentoo, Arch, and FreeBSD user primarely, so I am far from being in the Suse camp. For the greater good I swollowed my pride and voted for NLED instead of clicking other and typing Gentoo or Arch.
If Dell does this and advertises this so the world knows, I will buy from them if for nothing else, just to support their effort to support Linux.
Dell won’t change. Dell has dipped their fingers in this before and Microsoft spanked them for it.
If their linux sales put them back ahead of HP I’m pretty sure Dell’s willing to sell linux. As for Microsoft, well they can always hope the DOJ gets it’s teeth back after the next election. (A man can dream anyways)
http://www.feyrer.de/NetBSD/bx/blosxom.cgi/nb_20070314_0259.html
A better question is WHY NetBSD?
Edited 2007-03-14 12:15
Answer on why no BSD :
http://www.dellideastorm.com/
111 136 user have requested GNU/Linux , multiply that by 359$ ( the lowest price of a home and home office Dell client Box ) , you got what peeked there interest.
thats a rounded at 40 million USD question.
VS
Same site , see the search engine on the right top corner , type BSD and press search.
240 BSD preinstalled
642 FreeBSD or *BSD support
100 Why Not PC-BSD
etc …
One would expect the OsNews staff to not pollute the GNU/Linux thread with any BSD , Solaris , etc unrelated crap. Good question , wrong place to ask it. You can start a new article and give it more visibility , because its a real problem , but it as nothing to do with GNU/Linux. Sorry , I expect better from you.
One would expect the OsNews staff to not pollute the GNU/Linux thread with any BSD , Solaris , etc unrelated crap.
I love how people make idiotic statements and accusations without even reading the comment. I’m the only “OSAlert Staff” in this thread, you’ve obviously referring to me – but I didn’t bring up NetBSD – I just asked why Dell would want to pre-install it. Nothing against it, but asking “Why not X?” is silly. Why not SkyOS? Why not Syllable, or Haiku, or better yet, OS/2?
Customer demand and readiness. Some OSes are just not ready for *general* customer digestion.
“I love how people make idiotic statements”
What is it that you consider idiotic ? What do you define as *my* *statement* ? Note that I don’t like to be called an idiot , but maybe there is some basis to your interpretation of my comment I did not see ,You probably miss-understood my comment and took it too personally as a judgment on your position as OsNews Staff.
“accusations without even reading the comment.”
What accusation ? you see a ! in there ? I made an observation , I agreed 100% with your comment and the not written aspect of it , that you have now explained , that you thought you had to explain in details to me , is in a sense even more practical to my usual BSD point and more explaining then I could have dreamed of putting it in written word myself , you hit the nail perfectly , I just disagree that you don’t bring it where it belong as an article of its own and that you instead choose to do like every other normal users and discuss it in a thread where discussing it is off topic , sorry.
Yes I read the thread , yes I read the others comments , Yes I saw that you did not introduce it , no I did not comment on others as I decided to pass on there stupid comment , some people have the fabulation to think that GNU/Linux is responsible for BSD problem or others problem , I disagree and any people who can hit that point hard and in a visible way is what I personally consider worth 5 second of my time to suggest it be put in more visibility.
Not for shame or ridicule , but so that people with half a brain cell , the means , knowledge and a real interest in it find way to fix the problems.
They don’t mind doing it here , I certainly wont mind doing the same in article that relate to there OS , and I wont be polite , nice or considerate with them there either. It’s a simple question of respect. BTW thanks for your hard work might not seem like it but I appreciate it even do I never say so. Sorry if I seem like an ass , I am trying to be less of one.
It seemed to me that you were provoking me. Your words were:
One would expect the OsNews staff to not pollute the GNU/Linux thread with any BSD , Solaris , etc unrelated crap.
I do not think that a simple response is worthy of an entire article, nor do I even have time to write it if I did, but certainly your response to my response was suggesting that I was “polluting” our forums. I don’t really write article anymore, but I certainly think it’s fair that I participate in the forums.
Bad writing on my part , wrong and too strong a word , sorry , Its also a shame you don’t have more time to write articles , I disagree with your fairness argumentation , you truly deserve more then any user to participate in the forum as do all the others Moderators and editors and contributors who make this site a reality and far from me to suggest otherwise , I might disagree on some of your point , but your participation and the one of the other certainly elevates the discussion. Again thanks for the hard work , I for one really appreciate it.
Haiku and SkyOS are still on early stages. FreeBSD (esp. their variants, PC-BSD and DesktopBSD) are more than ready.
Dell has to do something unique others didn’t do in Pc to be competitive!
My ideas are:
1. Write device drivers for dell’s parts and if not possible try to get them, install them then benchmark them then stress test them …. all to insure stability and enhanced functionality.
benefits:
a. web cameras would work, and it has a nice advanced features to communicate freely with others
b. Keyboards with special keys would work and the system would be stable even if waken from hibernation or standby
c. Mice with 6 buttons or more will work through an interface that allows you to assaign keys to them
d. Decent Tablets would work like in windows
2. Configure the system to include every package possible to install to simplify troubleshooting if missing packages are to happen (Installation size doesn’t matter nowadays with 1TB on knocking on the doors)
3. Configure especially:
a. Multimedia codecs to play at least 40 most common file formats
b. Firefox plugins to play flash, wmv, java,…
c. A program that will send complains and wishes to Dell when the customer feels the need to do so.
4. Create more innovative Desktops and workstations, even if weird in shape and fuctions; like eg:
a. Dual motherboard workstation with quick and convient switching capabilities, one with windows and the other with linux
b. a workstation with LCD at the front to tell the Temperatures, Fan speeds, warnings all from the BIOS to make users more comfortable knowing what has happened to their system (overheating, HDD dropped from BIOS, Fan stopped working, GPU freeze, ….etc)
c. Workstations with better RAM type like FBDIMMs, Mobo HDD encryption on the fly, voice commands at POST time comming from an internal good speakers, fault tolerant NICs, mobo chipsets heatsinked….etc…etc
Many ideas are there but they need to keep believing they are innovators rather than sellers.
Good Luck!
I would say go with SuSE Linux I have been a Red Hat advocate since 1999 but they abandoned the desktop a few years ago (currently running Fedora Core) however I would like to give Novell a try since they are actually working towards pushing a desktop Linux distro.
SLED/OpenSuSE#1
RHEL/Fedora #2
I really would like to see Novell really push SLED on the desktop no matter what anyone says about the MS part I would be willing to pay a small fee for software that works!
Edited 2007-03-14 04:47
All that most linux users require is that
Dell uses hardware supported under Linux.
Installing Linux (say Fedora or Ubuntu) on a system with supported hardware is trivial (more trivial than windows
as no activation is required).
So Dell should just preinstall an arbitrary distribution
and check that everything works.
Afterwards users can replace the factory installed distribution with their own favorite distribution.
Michel
Considering that activation is normally just as trivial, it asks if you want to, and if you say yes, it activates over the net, no added fuss. It is only non trivial if you have pirated or reinstalled the OS too many times, and even then, I have had no problems activating over the phone
lets see what happens now.
One thing I’m still missing from Linux is a multimedia suite, such as Adobe Creative Suite or iLife.
– Amarok is great for playing music
– Audio editing: audicity is nice but doesn’t really cut it
– Video editing: lots of projects currently ongoing, but nothing like Premiere, iMovie or even Windos MovieMaker (now there’s a sad thought… )
– Website creation: no easy WYSIWYG stuff
and, most important of all:
– no integration between all those components (drag&drop, import, export, …)
– Video editing: lots of projects currently ongoing, but nothing like Premiere, iMovie or even Windos MovieMaker (now there’s a sad thought… )
Simple Video editing is great under Linux…DVD authoring is the thing that is poor. Tovid is the *only* thing I have had working.
Mark Shuttleworth just blogged on this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/100
Some of the people on here really give me a chuckle. They complain that none of the main stream system providers, such as DELL, offer a Linux Desktop. Then DELL decides to test the waters, and offer suggestions on what variant of Linux they should offer and they complain…
D@mned if you D@maned if you don’t.
What complaints? I see only scepticism that they’ll actually do it.
I’m not complaining at all. I’m just stating that Dell’s track record thus far is less than stellar in this department. They didn’t have manhood to stand up to Microsoft before when they wanted to ship a Linux PC, so I don’t expect them to have the manhood now.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
…or something like that…
They better hurry up before Apple comes out with Leopard. I want a laptop that runs Linux. I’ve been pricing things out from places like System 76 and Dell while reading all this nice stuff about Leopard.
They only thing stopping me from buying a Macbook now is that I can wait and get Leopard included.
I will buy a new laptop when Leopard comes out. Whether it is a Dell or an Apple….we’ll see.
EDIT : I’ve never owned a Mac before. I really just want a system where I can dual boot Linux and Windows, OSX would just an extra.
Edited 2007-03-14 12:57
them support both RPM based packages and debian based packages that way drivers would be available for both. Nothing more irritating than picking Ubuntu and then only finding RPM drivers. Sure there are workaround, but they don’t always work.
However, my personal preferences would be either Ubuntu or openSuse/SLED or both.
(On a side note I would love to see Linux gain a unified package management system. How lovely would it be to not have to worry about whether or not your system supports RPM’s or deb’s.)
them support both RPM based packages and debian based packages that way drivers would be available for both. Nothing more irritating than picking Ubuntu and then only finding RPM drivers. Sure there are workaround, but they don’t always work.
Or even better, submit the drivers upstream so that users don't have to use binary blobs that comes in rpm’s or deb’s.
I think the most probable option, from a business perspective for Dell, would be a pre-install of Linux with customizations to the distro made for Dell to increase usability. Compaq used to use a custom program manager back in the Win 3.1 days (xerox tabworks) and that sort of thing could work for Dell on Linux too– something like the former RedCarpet version of Gnome — They could have a custom software bundle with full eyecandy and market it as an alternative to MacOSX, sold alongside Vista. Most likely, since the agreement between Novell and Microsoft protecting endusers, SLED or OpenSuse would probably be the basis of this kind of “sub-distro”. Just think of how quickly share would increase if Dell pushed this as a new Alternative to Mac and Vista in National Commercials and advertisements.
Dell is missing out on a gold mine here IF they decide on this it not only creates jobs it also creates a whole new market for Linux software (packaged) for sale. The new users that already do not mind paying for Windows based Utilities would pay for Linux based software applications. Please do not confuse this with the ‘end of free software) I am an advocate of this. However it would open a new market for competition and the end of the myth people will not pay for Linux apps.
Since 1999 I have been using Red Hat (Fedora now) and I will continue to use Linux with no need for MS Windows or other apps they make. SLED would have the greatest chance for success with Novell backing it and the fact they have a long history of Netware. Now if they could put all of that together the package would be one word awesome! Red Hat could get in the game I wish they would wake up and see that the market is begging for this option.
With Dell’s clout in the Enterprise and the number of machines they sell would set the bar and other vendors would be racing to catch up allowing Linux to silently get a solid foothold in the market place. All it takes is this to happen the tidal wave would be unstoppable the end user is the Customer!
Mod me down, if you can’t handle the truth, but there simply isn’t sufficient demand for a Linux desktop. It has nothing to do with advertising. People simply don’t care about the issue of operating systems that much. Windows is “good enough”, it runs all their favorite apps, and they see very little value in switching.
Mod me down, if you can’t handle the truth, but there simply isn’t sufficient demand for a Linux desktop.
Yes, that’s right, that’s why Dell and HP are looking into preloading Linux – the one as a matter of course, the other for specific customers. Because there is no demand and they need to find something to do to fill their time.
Oh, and for the record, if anyone DOES mod down that crap, it won’t be me, even though it deserves it.
Dell already tried this experiment about 6 years ago, and it didn’t fly then, either. My bet is that they’ll do it for specific high-volume corporate customers who request Linux on their machines — but that’s it. This isn’t going to be a broad consumer thing.
Dell already tried this experiment about 6 years ago, and it didn’t fly then, either. My bet is that they’ll do it for specific high-volume corporate customers who request Linux on their machines — but that’s it. This isn’t going to be a broad consumer thing.
It didn’t fly because they didn’t promote it, and because the marketplace was a VERY different one than it is now – the acceptance of open source in general, never mind Linux, was way lower than it is now. You may be right about them only doing it for specific users, but your tone in that quote is already much less confrontational, argumentative, and absolute than the previous post. I submit it’s because you know you’re not going to be able to post your FUD much longer.
It didn’t fly because they didn’t promote it…
No, it didn’t fly because there was no DEMAND.
… and because the marketplace was a VERY different one than it is now – the acceptance of open source in general, never mind Linux, was way lower than it is now.
Whether or not a piece of software is open source is irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of desktop users; moreover, the market isn’t different. MS still has the same overwhelming market share, the market forces are still the same (large OEMs), etc.
You may be right about them only doing it for specific users, but your tone in that quote is already much less confrontational, argumentative, and absolute than the previous post. I submit it’s because you know you’re not going to be able to post your FUD much longer.
You’re delusional, if you think that desktop Linux market share is going to any different next year than it is now. Go ahead: Declare this the Year of Desktop Linux. I could use a good laugh.
It didn’t fly because they didn’t promote it…
No, it didn’t fly because there was no DEMAND.
Would there be a demand for MS software if they didn’t promote it? No? Shocking revelation of the week! (To you, maybe, anyway.)
Whether or not a piece of software is open source is irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of desktop users; moreover, the market isn’t different. MS still has the same overwhelming market share, the market forces are still the same (large OEMs), etc.
Right, sorry. I forgot that with you, in order for you to get a point you have to be repeatedly, violently bludgeoned with it over an extended period before it starts to sink in: The point is that “open source” is a wider and therefore more visible target than Linux in general.
You’re delusional, if you think that desktop Linux market share is going to any different next year than it is now.
You would have said the same thing about Linux server share in 1999. And yet again, you were proved wrong. I guess you just don’t learn.
Go ahead: Declare this the Year of Desktop Linux.
Sonny, the year of the Linux Desktop will come around before you acknowledge Linux’s viability on the server. As will the next ice age in Hell. So don’t go preaching to me about Linux on the desktop.
I could use a good laugh.
Then may I suggest you read some of your own crap?
Edited 2007-03-14 19:11
Would there be a demand for MS software if they didn’t promote it?
Successful companies evaluate market demand before they bring a product to market and before they advertise their product.
The point is that “open source” is a wider and therefore more visible target than Linux in general.
So what. That is IRRELEVANT TO THE VAST MAJORITY OF USERS! The average person doesn’t care about open source AT ALL. It simply doesn’t register on their radar when buying an operating system. They simply get whatever is preinstalled on their new PCs.
You would have said the same thing about Linux server share in 1999. And yet again, you were proved wrong.
No, don’t try to put words in my mouth. Server and desktop markets are completely different.
Sonny, the year of the Linux Desktop will come around before you acknowledge Linux’s viability on the server. As will the next ice age in Hell. So don’t go preaching to me about Linux on the desktop.
Frankly, I could care less what you believe to be true. The definition of insanity has been described by some as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. You seem to believe that Linux is going to gain significant desktop market share — despite the fact that market conditions haven’t changed. In short, you’re nuts. You’re living in a dream world.
The definition of insanity has been described by some as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
Then you must have gone gaga long ago.
You seem to believe that Linux is going to gain significant desktop market share — despite the fact that market conditions haven’t changed.
Really? I guess that’s why Dell and HP are talking about desktop Linux now, as I pointed out earlier.
In short, you’re nuts. You’re living in a dream world.
Right, and *I*m the one who’s supposed to have no credibility. What a total dickwad.
Really? I guess that’s why Dell and HP are talking about desktop Linux now, as I pointed out earlier…
Talking isn’t doing, dude.
What a total dickwad.
Don’t be so hard on yourself.
So what. That is IRRELEVANT TO THE VAST MAJORITY OF USERS! The average person doesn’t care about open source AT ALL. It simply doesn’t register on their radar when buying an operating system. They simply get whatever is preinstalled on their new PCs.
True. The users where I work get Linux. So that’s what they use.
Frankly, I could care less what you believe to be true. The definition of insanity has been described by some as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. You seem to believe that Linux is going to gain significant desktop market share — despite the fact that market conditions haven’t changed. In short, you’re nuts. You’re living in a dream world.
If Linux had sat still, this would be true. But it hasn’t.
One, the market conditions have changed. Some (not all) apps are more web orientated than they were before. Secondly, Linux has moved on since 1999. I find the constant ‘Year of Linux on the Desktop’ comments equally humorous, but the gap between Linux and the current offerings from MS/Apple has been closing steadily. I tried to use Linux on the desktop in December ’99. And I gave up. I then tried it again in 2001, and it was usable, not good – but usable. I moved to it full time except for games a couple of years ago. In 2001, I wouldn’t have let me parents near it. In 2005, I installed it as the only OS on their PC. It’s moved on.
No, it’s not perfect. No, it doesn’t do everything yet. Nobody claims that it does, but to think that Linux in 1999 when the ‘year of Desktop Linux’ is the same Linux that available today is at best ignorant, and at worst, being deliberately foolish.
I have to disagree , Red Hat was clearly not ready , and saying so loud and clear(1), SUSE (1) did too , also not interested to invest more in desktop solution for normal users and Dell was not ready to invest in something else then Microsoft Windows.
The Red Hat models actually did pretty well , but stock ran out and they decided to not make more offers , Microsoft XP was more in demand. Except for the N series of workstation and some special order nothing else came of it. Michael Dell Invested in Red Hat a will back (2)
(1) I was looking for Robert Young who said in many occasion that GNU/Linux was not ready for the desktop in those years ( 2000 ) , but can seem to find them.
Matthew Szulik in 2003
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39117575,00.htm
Linux still not ready for desktop, says SuSE CEO
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/03/02/no.linux.desktop….
(2) http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=A4FAA652-C93C-461F-9…
No offense , but both Novell and Red Hat are just not that interested in GNU/Linux desktop outside of corporations , They are both Billion USD company who can buy Desktop company or make one of there own tommorow if the truely decided it was important.
The people’s choice is overwhelmingly Ubuntu. They are just trolling for numbers, and if they do offer Linux it will be through a Novell/SUSE/Microsoft deal.
We’ll just keep on putting together our own systems, and they can kiss their opportunity goodbye.
BTW, has any Novell employees NOT voted today?
Edited 2007-03-14 16:53
QUESTION: Which Linux distribution wastes the least amount of your time?
None of the above. Pretty stupid question really, since you get a free unix clone out of the bargain you’re paid very well for your time and trouble.
Assuming that your time isn’t worth anything.
Assuming having a nice unix clone isn’t worth anything to you and it sounds like it probably would be wasted. To most of us who have actually bought and paid for UNIX workstations and know how to use them it’d be worth a very great deal more.