Submitted by OpenBSD 4.1 has been released. “We are pleased to announce the official release of OpenBSD 4.1. This is our 21st release on CD-ROM (and 22nd via FTP). We remain proud of OpenBSD’s record of ten years with only two remote holes in the default install. As in our previous releases, 4.1 provides significant improvements, including new features, in nearly all areas of the system.”
I thought the BSD’s were dead. Go Linux!
Kudos for Theo de Raadt and his team for his always on time releases.
OpenBSD is the excelent work and effort of a very passionate team and it deserves more attention from the media and the computer world.
Congratulations again!
Agreed, they don’t get the recognition they deserve. Having a free, functional, and secre OS just doesn’t make for good media attention I guess. They need to make openbsd a buzzword known for its security.
Edited 2007-05-01 19:38
like “secure by default”?
Again superior quality software/security engineering.
Last time I tryed to install OpenBSD, I’ve never been able to get anything to work, it may be my fault but I don’t know.
How is it now, is the installation easy now or anything?
And is it any good on a Laptop? I know it’s great on the server but what about Desktops or Laptops?
It’s not “easy” as in Ubuntu, but it’s easy for most of the people.
http://www.openbsd101.com/
Good reading thanx
Totally agree! What would we do without openssh (and many others)??!!
I don’t follow you. Do you mean the difference between applications like Firefox and the OS? I wouldn’t consider an installation routine be a simple application like firefox. A complete OS will comes with an installation program, else it will be “untar a basic system on mounted partition”.
The installation part can be complex (anaconda for example) or really rudimentary, like OpenBSD’s or even ArchLinux’s (my primary os). It’s still possible to install and I’m not saying the opposite
It’s just not as easy as “follow the wizard”.
I’m pretty sure the installation procedure is something preventing some users of using alternative os. But OpenBSD is targeting users who know what they do, not users looking for something new to try, so I’m pretty sure the installation procedure for OpenBSD will stay as it is.
>really rudimentary, like OpenBSD’s or even ArchLinux’s (my primary os).
It’s realy easy to do a e.g. pacman -Sy mplayer in Arch or make install (fetching and compiling all dependencies) in OpenBSD (or as binary package with pkg_add).
“I don’t follow you. Do you mean the difference between applications like Firefox and the OS?”
To speak from the traditional system layout of a BSD UNIX OS, everything in /usr/local/ (and /usr/X11R6/, which will be obsoleted) does not belong to the OS. Everything else does belong to the OS.
The OS contains of all the basic means of system control and maintenance, the system kernel and the basic hardware drivers. It also contains means of diagnostics.
A Firefox web browser usually is not a part of the OS itself.
“I wouldn’t consider an installation routine be a simple application like firefox.”
Simple? The OS usually provides a tool for software maintenance, such as pkg_add and the “make install” mechanism. This mechanism is tightly bound to the OS, and the installing, updating, deleting and maintaining utilities do belong to the OS.
There are wrappers you can use around them, such as packaging tools with a KDE interface. This wrapper does not belong to the OS, but must be able to rely on it.
“A complete OS will comes with an installation program, else it will be “untar a basic system on mounted partition”.”
Please differ: The OS comes with its own installer first, but secondly provides a default installer for additional software, because what would an OS be without installable applications?
“The installation part can be complex (anaconda for example) or really rudimentary, like OpenBSD’s or even ArchLinux’s (my primary os). It’s still possible to install and I’m not saying the opposite
“
Fabula docet: First think, then do.
I repeat: OpenBSD is an OS, not a distribution containing an OS and several user applications.
“It’s just not as easy as “follow the wizard”.”
You can expect something more than just clicking “Next” from an educated computer professional.
“I’m pretty sure the installation procedure is something preventing some users of using alternative os.”
This is true in my opinion. Text mode installers do frighten people. But it’s really great to use via serial console, which a graphical installer is not.
“But OpenBSD is targeting users who know what they do, not users looking for something new to try, so I’m pretty sure the installation procedure for OpenBSD will stay as it is.”
I think so, too.
Unfortunately, openbsd is not as easy to install as linux is today. Work is done for a working system, not for an installable system…
Also, because it is stable, you don’t need to reinstall it… So once its done, you don’t care anymore about installation!
“Unfortunately, openbsd is not as easy to install as linux is today.”
This is correct, but OpenBSD is targeted primarily on servers, or to be more concrete, on server operators who know what they’re doing.
This does not imply that OpenBSD would be a no-go for newbies. The only things required are (1) the ability to read and to recognize content and (2) to learn about how certain things work. This enables everyone to get OpenBSD installed as long as he/she really wants to – you simply need to follow the instructions. No magic.
I have a former study friend in Muenchen (Munich) who had certain experiences with SuSE Linux, then used FreeBSD and PC-BSD. Installing OpenBSD took a while (needed reading instructions), but installed once, he took his basic UNIX knowledge and got everything else working (KDE, kdm, OpenOffice etc.).
“Work is done for a working system, not for an installable system…”
While most Linux distributions do contain two parts – the GNU/Linux OS itself and additional GUIs and applications -, OpenBSD is “only” an OS. People sometimes get confused when recognizing this fact.
“Also, because it is stable, you don’t need to reinstall it… So once its done, you don’t care anymore about installation!”
This is correct. Allthough you should follow the security advisories for your installed applications (usually servers, such as web servers or mail servers) to have your system’s security granted. There is no need for a daily update of the OS itself.
But that is the situation with pretty much most operating systems – if you’re willing to follow some instructions, its pretty sweet going from there.
Then again, having installed OpenBSD, I think the issue isn’t so much ‘complexity’ but more to do with being unfamilar with the way things are done – making a mistake assuming that something is done one way because its done that way on the pior operating system used.
It really depends on what you want; performance wise, regarding threading and so forth, its never going to be at the same level which FreeBSD or Linux is at – but at the same time, the performance isn’t terrible.
Its about weighing up concerntrating on performance vs. coding correctly vs. getting things secure; for some, the small sacrifice in speed for the sake of a more secure system is a small price to pay.
“regarding threading and so forth, its never going to be at the same level which FreeBSD or Linux is at ”
Never is a long time, especially with rthreads in the works.
True, but in regards to SMP, threading, modular drivers, etc. etc. I’m not being negative about OpenBSD, just that OpenBSD has different priorities.
Its still a server platform primarily. You can make it into a desktop OS, but if you didn’t like the installation, you surely won’t like compiling KDE or Gnome. I haven’t installed 4.1 yet, but I’m sure that it’s very similar to the previous releases. Thats is one thing that they are very good at, consistency. I’m gonna go show my support and buy my copy today. I think anyone else that has a few buck to spare should do the same. Great job Theo and company!
Why on earth would you compile KDE or GNOME on OpenBSD? They provide binary packages synced with the ports tree (I’m lookin squarely at you FreeBSD) for a reason. Hell they even have packages for users running -CURRENT. I personally run OpenBSD on both my workstations and my laptop, and you won’t here any complaints from me.
OpenBSD is relatively easy to install. The text based installation tool may seem a bit frightening to some people but it’s not that bad. Actually I have found it to be one of the most reliable and well functioning installers I’ve ever seen (and believe me, I have seen more installers than any mortal should…) Here are some tips:
1. Read (and if possible print) the installation instructions from the OpenBSD FAQ (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html)
2. Disk partitioning is (IMO) THE difficult thing. It is easiest if you either have one computer for OpenBSD (i.e. no dual boot needed) or you have two hard disks in you computer so that you can give one of them to OpenBSD.
3. Always actually READ and UNDERSTAND the questions the installer asks you…
When you have managed to install OpenBSD everything should pretty much “Just Work(tm)”… The kernel is purely monolithic so there is no need to configure device drivers in any way. I have installed it on a number of machines and always all supported hardware has worked correctly. If it doesn’t work it’s probably not supported… (or needs separate firmware files, you can check the kernel boot messages with dmesg(8) and see driver specific notes by using man(1) (yes, ALL drivers have actually a man-page, I wish this would apply to Linux as well))
After installation you will have fairly uncluttered, clean and beautiful basic Unix-style system. After this you can use pkg_add(1) to install software packages. And if you need Xorg you can configure it by using tools like xorgconfig(1).
OpenBSD doesn’t have graphical installer (and probably never will…) because the developers don’t seem to want it. Always remember that OpenBSD culture is fairly developer/sysadmin centric…
“[…] you can […] see driver specific notes by using man(1) (yes, ALL drivers have actually a man-page, I wish this would apply to Linux as well)) “
You’re mentioning an important point: OpenBSD (and FreeBSD) have the great tradition of good documentation which I often missed working on a Linux system.
Your dmesg mentions a “rl” device. What’s this? Just “man rl”. And what about this strange “pciconf” tool? Just “whatis pciconf”. And I’ve seen a file called “amd.conf”, but I don’t have an AMD processor. Just “man amd.conf”.
OpenBSD has manuals covering all relevant system files, programs, and procedures. I think especially this makes it interesting for sysadmins and developers who need to know how things work.
amd.conf is simply the config file for this daemon and has nothing to do with AMD processors. Just clearing up some misconceptions here.
Have a good day.
“amd.conf is simply the config file for this daemon and has nothing to do with AMD processors. Just clearing up some misconceptions here.”
Well, I know this. I knew this some years ago, to be honest. I took this example to illustrate OpenBSD’s good documentation, I could have used “man passwd”, “man motd” or “man sysctl.conf” instead.
You’re right, amd.conf belongs to the automount service as described in “man amd”.
“Have a good day.”
Nah, I’m going to bed right soon, it’s 0:30 here in Germany.
OpenBSD is made from professionals for professionals. So, if you have problems installing it – it is not for you.
I actually don’t see what is so darn difficult about installing it. I installed it for the first time about 5 months ago. took me about 10 minutes to figure out and about an hour later (net install) I had openbsd running… wooo… And I am definitely not a pro
It is very easy and simple to install. it just doesnt have a shiny 16bit GUI to do so.
but if you can get past that it looks different, you will see it is very simplistic to get rolling. different != hard
“It is very easy and simple to install. it just doesnt have a shiny 16bit GUI to do so.”
Today’s computer users assume reading text to be hard, and they feel using the keyboard is harder than using the mouse.
I agree with you, I found installing OpenBSD not very hard or complicated, because the assistance the installer gave to me was enough to find out what to do.
As an opposite, some GUI installers offer choices to click on, but the average user does not know what they mean, e. g. “Enable DHCP” – what’s DHCP? No help button? Hmmm…
“but if you can get past that it looks different, you will see it is very simplistic to get rolling.”
Maybe for today’s computer users simplistic is too hard? And everything in 80×25 text mode is DOS, you know?
But from my personal experience, I find it’s simple to assist someone in an installation or maintenance process when I can give him commands he can copy & paste, or even list the keys he has to press. With GUIs, I need to describe the “pictures” he will have to use, where he has to click, and how the icons have to look like. And if I’ve got no reference at hand, I can only guess and let him search. But users don’t want to search, they want it working right now.
“different != hard”
You made a valid point here.
“How is it now, is the installation easy now or anything?”
It’s as easy as it’s always been. Of course, I’ve never found it to be hard in the first place.
“And is it any good on a Laptop?”
Yes.
It is easy. If you know what your doing.
Also: re primarrily server.
Yes, but I use it on all of my systems. Even for desktop use. But I don’t demand much.
One remark in the release notes is very interesting for me and I am very curious about it:
“X.Org 6.9.0 (+ patches, and i386 contains XFree86 3.3.6 servers (+ patches) for legacy chipsets not supported by X.Org)”
Does this really mean that the XFree 3.3.6 packages on the i386 platform are up-to-date, i.e. on a 2007 patch level (not on a 2000/2002 one)?
This would be (or is) fantastic.
It means you have both xorg7 and xfree3.
I was going to install openbsd the other day then realized 4.1 was being released today so I held off. I’m looking forward to going home and installing this since I need a good home server to mess around with.
have they done any more work on smp? last I knew they did a BGL import from netbsd.
anyone know how much progress has been made on SMP?
No. Basically on OpenBSD the rule is “if we’re not interested, it doesn’t get done.” OBSD is not interested in SMP, so it doesn’t happen.
Actually there is progress there, follow cvs, it’s not that f–king hard. If you don’t know anything about it, don’t speak authoratatively about it.
OpenBSD’s developers fully understand that systems are progressing to multiple cpu and multicore designs, and they are working on improving SMP’s performance.
OpenBSD’s development is based on what developers want, need or are payed to develop – not what they are interested in.
I do not know where your questions go
SMP was merged into OpenBSD code in 2004; AMD64 and x86 SMP are full supported by the OS.
There is of course SMP, but first security, then features – not the other way around.
“No.”
Then what do the SMP kernels that come with each release do?
Of course there’s being work done on SMP, it’s just not a very speedy progress.
It’s brilliant, Simple installation… easy upgrades.. And package management is brilliant IMHO.
I have no desire to use anything else..
When will we see an article claiming Vista is more secure than OpenBSD?
Next to the article “Getting the Facts:Vista Server system requirements lower than OpenBsd”.
If you need a great desktop ready and easy to install go for PC-BSD which is based on FreeBSD and uses KDE as the backend.
“OpenBSD isn’t for Desktop”
I’m currently using OpenBSD on the desktop.
from OpenBSD faq site:
1.10 – Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
This question is often asked in exactly this manner — with no explanation of what the asker means by “desktop”. The only person who can answer that question is you, as it depends on what your needs and expectations are.
While OpenBSD has a great reputation as a “server” operating system, it can be and is used on the desktop. Many “desktop” applications are available through packages and ports. As with all operating system decisions, the question is: can it do the job you desire in the way you wish? You must answer this question for yourself.
It might be worth noting that a large amount of OpenBSD development is done on laptops.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Desktop
Good answere from obsd regarding the desktop.But it would be nice if there would be a tutorial how to setup xorg,gdm and stuff.Mostly i fetched the ports from one of the ftp servers did a make install from the particular package directory but often i got an error message.
There are already hundreds if not thousands of places with that info. Those application aren’t specific to OpenBSD, no need for openbsd specific docs (unless its alot different to setup, which it isn’t)
“how to setup xorg”
Usually you don’t have to do any setup to get it working and when you do it’s the same as for every other OS with X.org (mostly).
“gdm”
GDM isn’t part of the base system so that’s up to the package maintainer. IIRC you just start it from rc.local, just like any other 3rd party daemon.
“Mostly i fetched the ports from one of the ftp servers did a make install from the particular package directory but often i got an error message.”
You’re not supposed to use the ports. Just use binary packages, that’s what they are there for. pkg_add is your friend.
“Usually you don’t have to do any setup to get it working and when you do it’s the same as for every other OS with X.org (mostly).”
Since xorg has autodetecting functions (xorg –configure, if I remember correctly), the xorg.conf is created automatically. New xorg versions autodetect everything at startup, so there’s no need for a config file. You just need it do setup strange or older hardware where autodetection does not work properly. But with most modern hardware it works just fine.
“GDM isn’t part of the base system so that’s up to the package maintainer. IIRC you just start it from rc.local, just like any other 3rd party daemon.”
If I can recall correctly, gdm works as a substitution for standard xdm (which comes with xorg), to change it you just replace
ttyv8 “/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon” xterm on secure
with
ttyv8 “/usr/X11R6/bin/gdm -nodaemon” xterm on secure
in /etc/ttys (check “which gdm” first). The same procedure can be applied for kdm. At least it works this way in FreeBSD, I’ve got no OpenBSD system at hand to verify.
“You’re not supposed to use the ports. Just use binary packages, that’s what they are there for. pkg_add is your friend.”
Using the ports usually is only neccessary where applications can be configured with special abilites (such as mplayer with its many plugins) or when a certain grade of optimization is needed and intended. Otherwise, the precompiled packages are completely okay to use. Personally, I use packages in the first place, and compile just what needs to be compiled due to special make options – that’s a very comfortable way. (NB: You can do the same on FreeBSD.)
“Since xorg has autodetecting functions (xorg –configure, if I remember correctly), the xorg.conf is created automatically. New xorg versions autodetect everything at startup, so there’s no need for a config file.”
X.org does that already. I havent had to use a configuration file for at least a year, probably more.
“I’ve got no OpenBSD system at hand to verify. ”
XDM/GDM/KDM does not run on a tty on OpenBSD (at least not on x86). You start them from rc/rc.local.
“Using the ports usually is only neccessary where applications can be configured with special abilites (such as mplayer with its many plugins) or when a certain grade of optimization is needed and intended.”
On OpenBSD there are packages for most flavors. Unless you really need to, you’re not supposed to use the ports tree.
On OpenBSD there are packages for most flavors. Unless you really need to, you’re not supposed to use the ports tree.
True, i just used pkg_add ftp://..mplayer.tgz and all dependancies where met and finally mplayer was installed.
Likewise i installed gnome and kde in a matter of minutes.there’s even latest firefox and openoffice.
“True, i just used pkg_add ftp://..mplayer.tgz and all dependancies where met and finally mplayer was installed.”
It’s even easier. I think OpenBSD’s pkg_add has -r support, so you even don’t need to give the FTP location (as long as the standard environmental variables are defined), you just do:
# pkg_add -r mplayer
You only need to compile mplayer in special cases, using the Makefile.local mechanism, in order to have certain functions enabled or disabled, like:
WITH_SDL=yes
WITH_VORBIS=yes
WITH_XANIM=yes
WITH_XVID=yes
WITH_REALPLAYER=yes
WITH_LIVEMEDIA=yes
WITH_ESOUND=yes
WITH_FREETYPE=yes
WITH_LANG=yes
WITH_GUI=yes
HAVE_GNOME=yes
WITH_DVD=yes
WITH_LIBDVDNAV=yes
WITH_OPTIMIZED_CFLAGS=yes
WITHOUT_RUNTIME_CPUDETECTION=yes
CFLAGS+= -O3 -pipe -mfpmath=sse -ffast-math
Some of these settings are predefined, others are only needed to make mplayer run under restricted circumstances (e. g. P 150 MHz, 64 MB RAM).
“Likewise i installed gnome and kde in a matter of minutes.there’s even latest firefox and openoffice.”
Precompiled are the usual way to install software. Who would want to compile OpenOffice?!
“X.org does that already. I havent had to use a configuration file for at least a year, probably more.”
xorg.conf is only needed in special cases, such as older hardware may require it, for example if autodetection gives false settings or you need to have special frequency settings in order to get a Sun GDM monitor working, or you have to use an older GPU. For modern hardware, autodetection should work without problems.
“XDM/GDM/KDM does not run on a tty on OpenBSD (at least not on x86). You start them from rc/rc.local.”
Thanks for the info, I really wasn’t sure.
“On OpenBSD there are packages for most flavors. Unless you really need to, you’re not supposed to use the ports tree.”
This is correct. Ports are interesting if you need (or want to test) bleeding edge software because the packages usually contain stable versions precompiled. Furthermore, you can use the ports to tweak programs to run under restricted circumstances (see my other reply for an example). For most “usual” needs the packages installed via pkg_add are the best way. (I’m handling it this way on FreeBSD, too.)
Great to see another OpenBSD release. I will create my own OpenBSD install cdroms and then donate cash to the project.