Submitted by Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon Tribe 5 has been released. “The Ubuntu developers are hurrying to bring you the absolute latest and greatest software the Open Source Community has to offer. Gutsy Gibbon Tribe 5 is the fifth alpha release of Ubuntu 7.10, and this alpha release brings a host of excellent new features.”
It’s about time X gets a graphical configuration tool!
However, judging from the screenshot it will be unacceptably inflexible. E.g., it doesn’t seem to support a MetaMode like this: “1600×1200 @1600×1200 +0+0,1280×1024 @1280×1024 +1600+1200”
Why can’t people make things right from the beginning? It’s not like it’s hard to make a widget where one could drag around monitor-representations to place them in whatever configuration one wishes.
Still, it’s better than nothing even though it is 10 years later than it should have been.
I don’t know which system you are using but there has been graphically configuration programs for X for several years. True, primitive GUI-tools but none-the-less GUI tools.
I’m afraid the nature of GUI-tools will disallow an easy-to-use powerful GUI Config-app for X.org though I hope I’m wrong.
I think he was reffering to that horrid little ncurses thing. I didn’t consider ncurses a GUI but I will say, it got the job done very well.
Exactly, NCurses is not a GUI, it’s called a TUI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_user_interface
Ah, the lovely “dpkg reconfigure xserver-xorg” I remember from Debian. It seemed not-so-bad until I tried the graphical configuration tools that PCLOS got from Mandriva.
And then they already had a GUI tool in Kubuntu. What’s up with these devs? Do they think that a poorly integrated, alien-looking GUI tool is worse for newbies than no GUI tools at all?
> I don’t know which system you are using
Ubuntu, of course, which is what this whole news entry is about. And before ubuntu I used debian, which ubuntu is based on.
Well, that’s weird because Gnome has an integrated applet for configuring X.org. Well, at least for graphical resolution. (Like 1600*1200 at 72 Hz – watch out for headaches with such a low frequency!)
Gnome has had such options since v.1.0 (RHL 6.0). That’s somewhere around 7-8 years.
Yes, but the Gnome tool could not always configure refresh rates.
I installed Ubuntu 7.04 on a machine and the Gnome tool was useless. I had to manually configure xorg to get a decent refresh rate.
Well, it can configure the refresh rate on my system – unfortunately it does not play well with the configuration tool from nVidia… I get the weirdest refresh rates when combining those tools
Not many people know of xf86setup. I used it quite a few times back in my slackware 3.1 days. Now a lot of the linux distros made it pretty obsolete but I agree with you, there has been a gui for X setup for many years.
I don’t know which system you are using but there has been graphically configuration programs for X for several years. True, primitive GUI-tools but none-the-less GUI tools.
Well SuSe has had Yast for ages, which contains a module to configure X graphically. If they would have just taken that and customized it (Yast is GPL), then they would have had this functionality ages ago. But no, the NIH syndrome is strong and everything must be written from scratch. Hooray.
FYI Ubuntu also didn’t write the tool they’re using, so it’s funny to hear you accuse them of NIH syndrome.
Actually they considered just this. But because Xorg was to get hotplug support for monitors they didn’t want to “waste” the resources (to port it).
And Kubuntu had an X config tool for ages, so it’s just that the Ubuntu guys wanted something GTK, I guess.
Funny you say this. displayconfig-gtk actually uses guidance as a backend. FYI: guidance is what the “Kubuntu X config tool” is based on. Check it out:
http://www.simonzone.com/software/guidance/
yeah, I did know that. I really wonder if Ubuntu now requires pyKDE and pyQt…
The answer to your question is no. If you do “apt-cache depends displayconfig-gtk”, you would see that a few of it’s deps are “guidance-backends, python-gtk2, python-glade2,…”. The ubuntu devs took guidance and split it into a backend/frontent so the gui is agnostic of the code.
The did the same thing for network-manager, restricted-manager, etc.
That is the best of both worlds because bugs fixed by the kde guys will affect the gnome guys and vice versa.
Yes, and sax and sax2 did and do their job even if your X environment has been completely “destroyed”, e.g. as the horrible result of a X security update.
Mandrake/Mandriva and Suse have had graphical configuration systems for just about everything for over 10 years.
Well, 7-8 years for MDV, to be strictly accurate (I think that’s when MCC came in).
But yeah, the general impression this changelog gave me was ‘hey, Ubuntu, welcome to 1998’…:)
You are 100% right. Mandrake had all this back in the day. I guess it’s been so long ago it’s new again haha.
Xorg 7.3 is being released very soon. It’s going to include a new version of RandR, which will allow dynamic hotplugging similar to that available in OS X and Windows, and will be able to function in the way you describe. It will also have input hotplugging and dbus configuration apparently. Looks to be a good release.
Ubuntu is already using x server 1.3 and the randr 1.2 protocol in their current betas, as is Mandriva (and we had them available as experimental packages for 2007 Spring). I’m not sure about the other distros, but I would be surprised if they’re including them in their next releases too.
Unfortunately, the core of Xorg 7.3, Xserver 1.4, will not be released until after the Gutsy feature freeze. Therefore, the Ubuntu devs have decided to stick with Xserver 1.3 for Gutsy. XRandR 1.2 is in.
On the bright side, it’s likely that Gutsy+1, the next LTS release, will feature Xorg 7.4. Next spring looks like a great time for the Linux desktop. KDE4, Compiz, Xorg, FOSS drivers for Intel and possibly NVIDIA graphics, KVM, Devicescape, and more will be in good shape by then. No Year of Desktop Linux, but progress will be made.
I like what I see in Gutsy, though. XRandR 1.2 and the configuration tool is the obvious headliner, but the printer support looks great, and AppArmor is a nice plus. A virtual machine manager, please? Red Hat’s looks nice.
From this gutsy desktop:
jeff@desktopmonster:/sys/module/usb_storage$ apt-cache search ‘(libvirt|xenman)’
libvirt-dev – development files for the libvirt library
libvirt0 – library for interfacing with Xen & other virtualization systems
python-xen-3.1 – python bindings for Xen, a Virtual Machine Monitor
libvirt-bin – the programs for the libvirt library
python-libvirt – libvirt python bindings
ubuntu-xen-desktop – Xen software for running on desktops
xenman – A graphical Xen management tool
Xenman is actually a pretty good xen “management gui” and seems to match virt-manager (redhat’s tool) in feature parity. It looks like the virt-manager package wasn’t good enough to make it into the archive yet though. Since all of it’s deps (libvirt*) are in the repos, it will make the LTS release for sure.
X had one already, it’s called xvidtune. Can’t tell you how many times that little known application made my life easier.
xvidtune was only to tune modelines.
Talking of graphical configuration tools..
anyone remember XF86Config from redhat 5.2 – 6.0 days? – I recall it was okay for its time. it was a tk UI I recall but have access to a lot of options the simple gnome tools dont.
It got me started anyhow and was a nice enough way to configure X graphically.
I just checked and I have xvidtune installed on Feisty my system. I don’t think it installs by default, I think it’s there because I installed the xbase-clients package.
Yes I remember using XF86Config on RH 6.0 and before that on Caldera OpenLinux 2.2.
The tk UI was a bit crude, but it allowed you to select your driver and tweak a lot of stuff.
Altough a few of them aren’t really new (you can install Screen Preferences right now in Feisty), it’s nice to see them added to the default installation. And I really like what they’re doing with the printer configuration system, it’s an area that always give me the feeling that could be greatly improved.
Kudos to the developers, and thanks to the Fedora guys for system-config-printer
Oh dear…
Does the graphical X tool rely on your xorg.conf file being complete? I.e. does xorg.conf have to contain the modelines for your monitor before you can choose a higher resolution and refresh rate?
I think not. The new X.Org will allow you to even have a blank xorg.conf file and still work. This tool is just to complement that functionality, so that you adjust your settings.
Randr 1.2 will hopefully be the start of a new era of X. Hotplug, multimonitor config on the fly etc. It basically works so now there is a time for a nice a powerful GUI.
But you can only actually use it on Intel (and *possibly* old Radeon stuff if you’re lucky) right now.
I haven't tried the new beta yet, but I'm a bit worried about the new system-config-printer tool. Xubuntu 7.04 already has it, and it can't access my network printer. I have an extremely common, extremely simple setup, just a Win XP machine with a shared printer with guest access, and system-config-printer can't find it.
and is this Graphical configuration tool for X basically a ubuntu equivalent of Sax2?
Screenshots here: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=813&num=1
Thank you! and I must say, it looks gorgeous…
Thank you! and I must say, it looks gorgeous…
It’s not really any different than 7.04, which wasn’t much different from 6.10, which wasn’t much different from…..you get the idea.
I think they have Beryl enabled by default now.
Beryl is unmaintained and obsolete, and Compiz Fusion – its successor – is not “enabled by default”. That would require practically forcing every user to use proprietary graphics drivers, some of which don’t work too well on Linux (I’m looking at you ATI!). Whether Compiz Fusion is “included by default” is not another matter entirely.
If it’s on by default and no acceleration was found then metacity should just work. ATI opensource driver(certain models) have acceleration so would work with compiz.
I just installed Tribe 4 last night from a disc on a fresh system and I had “normal effects” set for me right out of the box. So, I think it does get enabled if your hardware can support it, but I really am not sure.
I know. But I just love that look… It’s original. Not boring grey, or always blue – but different. I wasn’t a huge fan of the brown/grey gnome look, bit ehm… poopy? but this is great…
It’s not just Gorgeous, its Gnome!
What is SO gorgeous about this release of Ubuntu? It’s plain old gnome and nothing else.
In fact, it’s boring…
By screenshots alone, can anyone else not tell the difference between this release and the past 3 or so releases.
You don’t need completely new artwork for every 6-month release, that’s a waste of manpower and it’s just going to be harder to market Ubuntu to new users if it keeps changing appearance. I believe the next release will have an artwork update, but I’m not entirely sure.
Can you tell difference between the past 3 releases of OS X? Beside small changes in widget theme, it is mostly the same. If Ubuntu like their different look at the moment, they can just keep it, nothing ca stop you from changing it in 5 seconds.
For me, every release looking mostly the same tells me that things are stabilizing on the desktop and I like that.
Perhaps, but then again I think 6 months is too quick for releases let alone artwork. I do however give the latest Ubuntu offering a try with each release and with each release it seems buggier and slower than the previous. Some of the severity of the bugs I’ve seen over the past couple releases is also very well how to put it…not good =)
Edited 2007-08-24 17:13
If they used 2.6.23 then them bugs you speak of would not exist, just think for one minute, it’s slow because of the IO issue with 2.6.22 and Tracker slows the system down because of it, it’s the kernel not Tracker.
From the plans Mr. Shuttleworth and the community have laid out, Ubuntu seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting as far as making Linux a much more usable desktop system. Now granted, the updates to the HAL, Xorg, cups, and other components go a long way, but I think Ubuntu is doing a good job integrating everything into a coherent whole.
Ubuntu has made the GUI front ends more usable to the average user(it’s what they do anyway) but dont carry the load for all the work that goes underneath. Redhat, SUSE and IBM have and do contribute alot to this. There was alot of GUI there already just Ubuntu made them more usable or visible to the user.
But I am saying screenshots of every identical-looking release are pointless.
Just give us a feature list, what works, what doesn’t, and leave it at that?
=)
I see where you coming from, but thats also assuming all the people who look at the screenshots are existing users.
Dont look at them if you dont want to. let the newbe’s have their fun.
All I want to know is which Core 2 Quad-compatible DDR2 533MHz motherboard(s) will work, out of the box, with Gutsy Gibbon or Feisty Fawn. This mainly includes the Networking hardware (and built-in graphics, if included).
I’ve been browsing all over Google trying to get a handle on it, but I’m still not certain.
I am planning on replacing my current AMD Folding rig with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 one.
I’m selling mine on eBay (there’s a day left on the auction), if anyone is interested.
Edited 2007-08-24 19:38
I’d like to know when Ubuntu is going to ship with some decent artwork. The current theme, which has been ever present in some form or another since Ubuntu’s inaugural release, is getting long in the tooth. I’d like to see a handful of pleasant but different schemes from which users can choose during installation. Those who like a brown/orange scheme versus a blue/silver, dark (black,) or various other light themes. Forcing everyone to accept the garish orange theme is silly. Yes, it’s easy to configure a new custom theme, but a one-click alternative(s) would be nice too. Just a thought.
Personally, I’ve been using xubuntu for years now and I must say that the figuring out of the graphics system kinda sucks. The last 4 or 5 installs I’ve just had to do a Xorg -configure and then blow away the ubuntu installed xorg and it works great.
I have to kinda agree with some previous posts, while I cheer for the Ubuntu team, that have done some great things to move linux forward..I test new version of the top distros, and I think Ubuntu is tippinga bit in terms of quality/refinement of the OS as a whole. Feature and functions are being added at such a blistering pace, I think that the release quality is suffering a bit.
The argument can/will be made to use LTS if you want stability and predictable performance, but you have to remember, with linux older doesn’t necessarily mean more stable. Anyone know when the next LTS release is due? Feisty is a bit wonky for a LTS, but maybe there will be another freeze with Gutsy or the next version.
Some distros have actually increase the quality of their work over the last few versions, Ubuntu isn’t one of them IMHO…I think the biggest QA improvement award would go to Fedora if I had to pick a team, they seem to be slowly getting their act together after a really bad start with FC1-3
Anyone know when the next LTS release is due?
The release after gutsy will be an LTS release.
Edited 2007-08-25 08:33
…I am not too keen on the six month release schedule. They should have an annual release schedule, and ship incremental updates over the year, and update package versions to the latest version as soon as they can. Shipping a new version every six months is a waste of marketing resources. It is good that they are finally paying some attention to Xorg configuration.
Annual releases may be ok, but you have to consider that they would loose stuff on gnome upgrading every 6 months. Incremental upgrades would essentially make it what it is now or sooner with even less testing, and you just can’t upgrade gnome because something may break.
You can skip every other release if you want. I wouldnt blame you for it. system updates are not always that fun. though for my own part is worked well.
Do Ubuntu spend that much on marketing each release? – I expect they need to do this to stay competitive with other distro’s.
What does the name “tribe” mean?
There is a big problem with Gutsy Gibbon. That is, it’s missing out on Linux 2.6.23 and, specifically, CFS.
For those who don’t know, CFS is the Completely Fair Scheduler, which basically is what Linux has been missing the last 5 or so years – it makes your desktop responsive, makes it handle loads predictably, and it a huge improvement for Linux that (at last) brings it up to the performance of BSDs in terms of responsiveness.
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2007/08/23/linux-vs-bsd-w…
But 2.6.23 is “too late” for Gutsy. Despite the chief kernel developers acknowledging the well-known fact that Linux 2.6.22 was a crap release by Linux standards (all kinds of IO issues) and that CFS makes a massive difference (read some of the http://kerneltrap.org/CFS history especially the benchmarks) the Ubuntu devs are blindly sticking to their release mentality that it’s too late for 2.6.23 to get properly tested – despite having a huge testbed of 100s (if not 1000s) of people running Gutsy as their daily desktop.
Ubuntu is about to take a fall because of this. Other distros will take this opportunity and people will slam “slow” Ubuntu (when you are at the top, people want to knock you down) and mud sticks so it will take a while to lose this label.
I run Ubuntu, I like it, I want to see it succeed. I will have to run a custom kernel, but that’s ok for me, not ok for Ubuntu which sticks with a crap kernel that eats CPU when IO heavy tasks kick in. People running Gutsy more than likely have experienced that with Tracker.
I reported it, tried to raise awareness in the forums, but it’s not happening. So 2.6.22 it is with Gutsy and 2.6.23 it is that will be the only reason many other distros take a huge bite out of Ubuntu’s mind/market-share.
This is about the stupidest post I’ve ever read. The market that Ubuntu is aiming for wouldn’t know kernel 2.6.22 from kernel 2.4. All they care about is if it works and at the moment it works. It’s not great but the linux kernel was fine before CFS was around so what is the big deal now? CFS is over hyped and yes there are benefits but nothing that would make a huge difference to those who are already Linux users. Please, if you want kernel 2.6.23 installed by all mean go compile it yourself but don’t go spreading stuff like this just because the devs didn’t head you commands. They have an established development cycle and they aren’t going to change it just because. 2.6.23 just recently came out and needs to be thoroughly tested before inclusion, Gutsy is due for release in October. Also this is no the first time that ubuntu has shipped with an older kernel due to their feature freeze and release time.
People care about performance and they will see IO issues and slower-than-other-distro performance. I merely explained the raesons… of course normal people don’t care about kernel versions but I was qualifying my statements on what the problems are with a bit of details (this is OSAlert y’know) but obviously you can’t comprehend the difference between a cause and an effect.
Oh, I can see the difference. I just think that your argument has been done to death over at the ubuntuforums and they got nowhere, so what makes you think ranting here will change anything? There is a cause and effect and if people are so fickle as to move to another distro just because the kernel isn’t what they want then let them go wherever the hell they want. I’ve stuck with Ubuntu from the start and I’m not going to change just because the kernel isn’t the latest when I’ve been using a non cfs kernel for like, oh I don’t know, about 10 years. Besides that a lot of the changes in .23 are being backported to the .22 kernel except maybe cfs.
Who chooses the names for these Ubuntu releases?
What’s next, Hungry Hippo or Humping Hyena???
Yeah. And what’s with the rediculous code names like “Longhorn” and “Whistler”? Imagine an employee telling his boss “we’d like to switch to Longhorn”. The boss will immediately say: “you want to switch to WHAT? hahahaha you’re fired, this ain’t a farm!”. Windows will never be ready for the desktop if things go on like that!