Submitted by In a statement published this week, SCO Group blames the success of Linux and ‘negative publicity’, as causes for its decline – the company may need to wind up its operations after its copyright case against Novell collapsed, prompting it to file for bankruptcy. My take: In Dutch, we have a saying: hij die kaatst, kan de bal verwachten.
“We blame Linux” “But Darl, your company used to be one of the biggest Linux distributors…”
That is the key missing element in this whole rant of his, the even ention that SCO used to run one of the largest US distributors on the market. Hell, I RAN their Linux until the day they started this. They abandoned their installed user base, and now are whining because they went elsewhere? Oh cry me a river Darl.
Lol! Well said.
Stop releasing anything of value and guess what happens? You stop making money. I think Darl McBride needs to go back to school, maybe do some basic economics or something.
I’d say that SCO are now well enough done to stick a fork in ’em!
Irony indeed. I just found our copy of Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 sitting in the back. I should see if I can get that up and running.
Caldera eDesktop 2.3 was quite nice and elegant back in the day…a long looong time ago.
This dutch language always makes me feel vaguely uncomfortable…
Meh, it’s all Dutch to me.
Yes, if it hadn’t been so successful, it wouldn’t have been worth their while sueing and they could have got on with running some sort of business instead. Maybe making OS’s or something like that…
In Dutch, we have a saying: hij die kaatst, kan de bal verwachten.
In English, we have a saying: What?
What goes around comes around!
I love Bablfish’s translation:
“he that throws back, can the ball expect”
Dibs on the bumper-sticker!
Touche.. that’s French, right?
Let’s see: you abandoned your user base, then spread FUD and lies while attempting to levy a baseless lawsuit against your former customers and everyone else who uses an OS you used to distribute.
Maybe I missed something here, but who in the hell decided this was a great idea? This whole SCO drama just sounded to me like a CEO on a crack cocaine binge…
Nono, they are the Smoking Crack Organization, they definitely do not like cocain.
Are you sure they’re not the Snorting Cocaine Organization?
Either way, the twits that ran them into the ground must have been on something. Seriously, did they -really- think this crap would work? DUH.
I am sure the SCO executives have made a lot of money on shorting SCO stock. Remember it was basically a pump and dump scam with extra funding from Microsoft and Sun to pay for the anti-Linux FUD.
I suspected from the beginning that this was nothing more than a thinly-veiled attempt to extort IBM into buying SCO for wad of cash, in order to make the “threat” go away. SCO was on pretty shaky ground at the time, and given the way businesses operate nowadays, where it’s cheaper to settle lawsuits rather than defend them, it wouldn’t have been surprising.
I think Darl and the boys were shocked when IBM pushed back, and smacked upside the head when Novell jumped into the fray. They were expecting an easy ride with a big payoff, but it all went oh-so-horribly wrong. Karma rocks.
I absolutely agree. Spot on.
Hopefully the larger industry at whole will calm down with all the frivolous and irrational ‘I.P.’ claims.
I wonder if IBM settled their claim with Amazon.com over IBM’s patents regarding ‘online retail’. It’s another perfect example of a company trying to get money for work they didn’t do.
And in Latin they say
Quia ventum seminabunt, et turbinem metent
so what’s so f–king special about Dutch?
Thom is Dutch, that’s why he said “In Dutch, we have a saying”
Actually, he probably should have said
“In Holland we have a saying: hij die kaatst, kan de bal verwachten.”
or
“In the Netherlands we have a saying: hij die kaatst, kan de bal verwachten.”
unless he meant he was “In Dutch” with the wife or some such…
It was cool to see some non English in here however, gave me a chance to translate it…
Actually, he probably should have said
Dutch is the language we speak (actually, it’s Netherlandic, but I won’t go there). Just as you can say, “In English, this would be…”, you can just as well say, “In Dutch, this would be…”.
Nothing wrong with that.
Some people apparently still have to get used to the idea that English is not native to 95% of the world’s population, although it’s omnipresence on the internet might sugggest otherwise.
Anyway, I found it refreshing, and journalists are allowed to put a personal note in for those who care (others just ignore it).
Hmm… one thing I’ve always wondered about. What’s the whole thing with Holland/Nederland, Dutch/Nederlands (Netherlandic) ? Do you use both terms interchangeably in Dutch? And how does Oranje fit in?
From my limited understanding, Holland = place ( a part of the country of the Netherlands, often applied to the whole), Dutch = language/adjective (like Deutsch?). And Netherlands of course means “low countries.” To distinguish from the other low countries (like Belgium) the term “dutch netherlands” was once used, again IIRC. And I don’t know where Orange came from. So maybe best to let Tom answer this one.
Edited 2007-09-21 19:19
You’re right about Holland being a province of The Netherlands, as passionate dutchmen friends have often explained to me. Of course outside The Netherlands Holland has become pretty much synonymous with the whole.
Not quite sure about Oranje, but I think it’s got something to do with when the Spanish were there, ruling Holland by marriage? I think the Oranje’s were part of the aristocracy (Willem of Oranje and such names).
Dutch is the language in The Netherlands, but Deutsch is German for – German, so nothing to do with Dutch, apart from that they are all related germanic languages, as English and for example Swedish are too. You can actually see the development/evolution of the language moving from Germany to England. If you speak these two Dutch or Flemish appears like something in between and is easy to pick up.
Holland is a subsection of The Netherlands. In the golden age (1600-1700) when we ruled the world, Holland was the main driving force. These days, you have North-Holland (Amsterdam) and South-Holland (Rotterdam), 2 of our 12 provinces.
Our language is called “Nederlands” (Netherlandic in English, or, in German, Niederl~A¤ndisch). “Dutch” refers to “Diets”, the common ancestor to both Netherlandic and German (we call Germany “Duitsland”, where “Duits” stems from “Diets”).
Oranje is a whole different story. Oranje means “Orange” in English, and it’s our national colour. Its origins are a bit complicated, but I’ll try. In 1568, the Eighty Years War started, our struggle for independence from the Spanish Empire. The Dutch revolt was lead by a German from Nassau, William of Orange. He was called William of Orange because he was the prince of the Principality of Orange, an area in southern France. That’s why my Royal Family is called the House of Orange-Nassau – even though none of those areas are Dutch territory.
As a sidenote, now you also understand our very weird national anthem: William of Nassau / I am of German blood / true to the fatherland / I will remain until death / as a Prince of Orange / I know no fear / I have always honoured / the king of Spain. In those days, you never disrespected a king, because back then, they were king by the grace of God. If you disrespected a king, you disrespected God.
Anyway, William of Orange led the revolt, but got murdered July 10th, 1584. Later on, his descendants became the Stadthouders (literally: ‘citykeepers’, in French/English: lieu [place] tenant [keeper], that’s where the military rank stems from) of Holland – Holland, as said, was then part of the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (now The Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg). In 1815, after the Napoleonic Wars, we became the Kingdom of The Netherlands, with the descendants of William of Orange leading the monarchy.
Grossly off-topic, but hey. You learnt something there, didn’t you
.
Very off-topic yes, but yeah – I learned something. Got a few things confirmed (ou in Dutch tend to equal ol in Danish and English) and got quite a bit I didn’t know (especially about the national anthem and the whole Oranje “thing” and William being German (surprise!) ) – and of course material to ask you 56057193572938467346 clarifying questions
– but this isn’t the place. Gotta visit the public library.
PS. Didn’t know the lieutenant meant place-/citykeeper either.
So are you Chinese, or Japanese?
100% Dutch. Can’t help it either.
One of the best King of the Hill episodes ever. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/King_of_the_Hill
Hank: (meeting Khan) So are you Chinese or Japanese?
Khan: No, we are Laotian.
Bill: The ocean? What ocean?
Khan: From Laos, stupid! It’s a landlocked country in South East Asia between Vietnam and Thailand, population approximately 4.7 million!
Hank: (after a few seconds of silence) So are you Chinese or Japanese?
Kahn: D’oh
How about: there are more people who talk Dutch (as their mother tongue, not know it from school) than Latin?
Cool! What was that in Hebrew again!?
Ofwel boontje komt voor zijn loontje, en wie een kuil graaft voor een ander valt er zelf in.
And in Dutch we have another saying:
“Tuid ysfj wedb pobeuq bjks lbnxc sweiuyu qdsf xcvd lihgc”.
Got the picture?
Got the picture?
Mind you, some people are interested in other languages than English. And it is nice to have seen at least a few translations of Tom’s comment.
This is exactly my point. Why not translating the Dutch saying? Everybody doesn’t speak Dutch.
Lighten up. I’m just joking around. And anybody with a bit of common sense can more or less figure out what the saying should mean. Or at least have an idea.
So no one speaks Dutch?
If you didn’t want the diaper, you shouldn’t have dropped the galluses.
I know its dead in the water. Ignoring the controversial. The company and from what I make out its confusing history. I can’t actually figure if as a company what it actually “owns”, I’m not being contentious.
The only thing I see is Tarantella being acquired by Sun two years ago.
but I’m also seeing a “what happens now?” I can comfortably see deals done behind closed doors being revealed, if there were any, unless people are gaged with money.
…but seriously what happens now?
“””
The only thing I see is Tarantella being acquired by Sun two years ago.
“””
Well, Tarantella was never an asset of what we call SCO, today. Really, The SCO Group. The old SCO sold their operating systems division, really OpenServer + whatever rights they had to UnixWare, to Caldera. Old SCO went on to concentrate their efforts upon Tarantella. And then Caldera changed their name to The SCO Group, and, well…
Basically, the SCO group has two badly neglected proprietary Unix platforms. A sharply declining user base and revenue stream. No money with which to resuscitate their dying products. A sharply decreased talent base due to the layoffs. A burned bridge to the only thing which could have saved them: Linux. Mounting legal costs. And a big, pending bill from Novell which the bankruptcy court is not likely to ignore.
Oh, and a light-weight market cap, and a stock price that comes in at about half the cost a roll of the really cheap, generic brand toilet paper.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=2y&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=
As of this date, SCO stock certificates *are* still worth more, per sqare inch, than the toilet paper. That situation being subject to change. Stay tuned.
Edited 2007-09-22 08:46
You behavior is unacceptable. I will not tolerate this behavior. It explains clearly all those off-topic comments about the FSF. Its you your just like that. Its a pattern.
As I said I will not tolerate your low level intimidation any longer.
Seriously, the one reason Dutch people are excellent English speakers is the fact that not a single rock on this planet can make heads or tails of the Dutch language.
So when quoting in another language, remember to translate as it “skulle var j"avligt korkat att skriva nagot som ingen annan kan f"orsta” as we say in Swedish…
hehehe —- bra po"ang!
“Tag sa den kartoffel ud af din mund”
Hey, that’s what we tell *you guys* all the time!
In brazilian portuguese we use to say “Já vai tarde malandro”.
Darl, I too have a saying – and you’re full of it.
let me say to SCO,
“Good night, and good luck”
Why not “Good night, and ***k off.”
“he that throws back, can the ball expect”. Now I get why they call that fish the “Babel”
Hold nu bare kaeft, hvis i ikke har noget ordentligt at bidrage med…
Did I miss something, or didn’t they sue everybody and that way created the bad publicity, all by themself?
Hávamál #36:
A small hut of one’s own is better,
A man is his master at home:
A couple of goats and a corded roof
Still are better than begging.
Hrmmm… Agressive actions, followed by an “oh, woe is me” victim act in response to the inevitable backlash… And hey, it looks like McBride is a graduate of Brigham Young University. A Mormon with grandiose delusions of persecution – who would have expected that?
SCO:
Clue for SCO: There is no Unix code in Linux.
Pretty simple, really. That is wholly and absolutely where SCO went wrong.
I guess you missed the other parts of it; when SCO claimed it owned C and C++, that various operating systems infringed on SCO patents. Basically it was a wild grasp at straws as a company run by lawyers run it into the ground. I find it funny that there are investment companies who appoint idiots to run businesses – and these peoples only claim to fame is the fact they have a suit and a degree.
Hell, I could point to atleast a dozen businesses run into the ground by people with ‘degrees’ and over 2 dozen companies run by people whom just have ‘street smarts’. Warren Buffet is a prime example of good commonsense bringing about good returns rather than doing things ‘by the book’ or ‘the conventional way’.
Edited 2007-09-21 17:26
Billy Joel ” WE DIDN’T START THIS FIRE”
But we DAMN sure put it out! Now bend over and take it in your USB port, one DISTRO @ a time!
“Now bend over and take it in your USB port”
One up for humour!
Bah Weep Grah Nah Weep Ninni Bong!
And SCO gets what they deserve,
Ehm….
“Nee!”
“Nee!”
Knight on, bro!
Nice Transformers reference there!
Unfortunately, I think most people thought you were referring to Monty Python. Though it was Wreck-Gar who said it, who was voiced by Eric Idle, so we can see where the confusion could be.
My saying usually is “You can’t polish a turd” but that generally applies to Microsoft, and not SCO. In their defense though, Utah does have one of the highest amounts of meth labs in the country.
I figured someone would get it!
But I’ve used the polish a turd reference a few times too, but honestly, SCO is a dinosaur, I’ve seen and used Sco Unix, it’s nothing special, I’ve replaced 15 Sco servers with Cheeseboxes running CentOS in the last couple years.
the saying in latin meant that those who will sow wind will be harvesting a storm.
the comment in swedish was: it would be damn stupid to write something if nobody else could understand it (is that right?)
with a smattering of german one can understand written dutch. however idioms are so idiomatic… you just can’t expect to render them.
i guess it was: if you throw the ball you should expect it (thrown back at yourself) (kaatsen = Engl. cast; verwachten = Ger. erwarten)
There’s a saying in Italy as well: Chi è causa del suo mal, pianga se stesso. It roughly translates to if you’re the cause of your own misfortune just cry over yourself. It makes a great epitaph. For SCO.
and in Russia we say:
Не капай другому яму, сам в неё попадёшь
erk, all I see are numbers. Use a character encoding the rest of us can read! or something. Читать не можем!
like UTF-8?
Tell that to Osnews, not me.
“aki k"onnyüvérü n"onek megy, ne csodálkozzon, ha lefektetik”
if you turn to be prostitute, do not be surprised if you get laid
Edited 2007-09-21 13:36
SCO == “The knights who say, Ni!”
No, the “Knights who say ‘Ni!'” are too good for SCO…
They’re more like the devilish “Yosemite Sam” when he signs the pact with the Devil to kill Bugs Bunny…
And if you remember, Yosemite Sam always ended up in Hell for it too…
I think that statement qualifies as blasphemy…
SCO == “The knights who say, Ni!”
I sure hope they aren’t – those guys are kicking ass:
http://dc-vault.com/showscores.php
But Team Haiku is catching up
I think SCO should now sue all linux users because of bad publicity, that should get them back on the track !!!
Edited 2007-09-21 13:37
in Scotland – “Get it up you!”
Voi Pillu
Typical Finn, you just could not make anything really creative. Instead you choose to pull a short, vulgar phrase to amuse other Finns. Even the Swedes could make a point.
Siisti siis suusi, Toni. Jookos?
I love the way SCO are unable to take the blame, it’s like a kid screaming ‘It ain’t fair!’.
I read in a recent article that half of they’re accountants have left SCO; some because of reorganization but most because they quit. Some of these accountants have been with the company for over ten years! Guess they knew which way the wind was blowing.
We have a another good English saying: You reap what you sow.
And in Ireland: Me hole it’s not your fault!
Edit: Added ancient Irish saying
Edited 2007-09-21 14:02 UTC
Yes, this happened at about the same time that they gave their chief legal counsel (Ryan Tibbits) a raise from $160k/annum to $210k and a bonus (after taxes) of another $50k.
The day before filing for bankruptcy.
So there appear to have been 3 honest folks left there at least.
I speculate that the bonus was to make up for the fact that the approximately $42k worth of stock they gave him in 2004 is now worthless. After all as an insider who was nominally aware of the law he couldn’t sell it.
The bankruptcy judge may not look too kindly on that…
I remember SCO making a variant of Unix, not linux, but the name escapes me. What is going to happen to that OS?
It had both Unix and Linux… SCO Unix and Caldera Linux, which became SCO Openunix and SCO Openlinux.
Now, WE in Northern Ireland have a saying which is apt for SCO .
It goes like this: “Ah well…F%*k Them !”
So is there any way to pin any of this on Microsoft or Sun in any way? Or they walk out pretty squeaky clean after bankrolling SCO to make them live longer?
Basically whoever was holding stock or had invested in SCO saw their money thrown away on obviously frivilous, absolutely non ethical, (criminal) lawsuits.
So were they put up to this? Any smoking gun anywhere or just rumours and a few scattered emails?
Obviously he won’t stop:
“We believe the inclusion of Unix code and derivative works in Linux has been a contributor to the decline in our Unix business because users of Linux generally do not pay for the operating system itself, but pay for services and maintenance.”
My understanding of the recent ruling is that this had no issue on whether Unix code is used in Linux, but rather ownership of the Unix copyright (belonging to Novell). If this is the case, and Linux does contain Unix code, could it not be that if Novell falls on hard times they turn around and claim ownership?
SCO really reminds me of Rambus, who never really did anything other than demand royalties from other manufacturers for DDR memory technology they had no right to claim in the first place.
My understanding of the recent ruling is that this had no issue on whether Unix code is used in Linux, but rather ownership of the Unix copyright (belonging to Novell). If this is the case, and Linux does contain Unix code, could it not be that if Novell falls on hard times they turn around and claim ownership?
Technically yes, although i think it’s pretty obvious that there isn’t any since SCO had years to show something (anything) in the IBM trial and never did. On top of that, most high profile projects have taken measures to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future and that all the code can be traced back to whoever wrote it.
Novell doesn’t need to claim ownership, they hold the copyright, so it’s pretty much established. But by virtue of distributing linux, they’ve more or less waived the right to sue for infringement, thanks to the GPL (or any number of FLOSS licenses present in your average distro).
You are correct about the recent result, but way, way off beam when it comes to Novell.
(1) Novell distributes a Linux product themselves. “Attacking” Linux itself is not a good way to go for them from a PR perspective, and Novell has already licensed anyone and everyone to use Linux via their act of distributing SuSe under the GPL.
(2) At the start of this, Novell told SCO “We hold the Unix copyrights, and we say to you you must drop this case against IBM. There is no Unix code in Linux”. That is the very moment that SCO sued Novell.
(3) As I said, Novell has waived SCO’s claims already.
(4) Unix has been to court before over copyrights, against BSD. The case was settled out of court, but essentially the result was that there is virtually no copyrightable code in Unix.
(5) It turns out that SCO’s accusations weren’t that there was Unix code in Linux. The accusations were that IBM put its own code (SMP, RCU, JFS etc) into Linux. Some of this code is also in AIX, which is IBM’s variant of Unix .. but the essential point is that this code is IBM’s code (to do with as IBM pleases), not Unix code.
(6) Most importantly, however … is the plain and simple fact that there is no Unix code in Linux. In the end it doesn’t matter who owns Unix, because there is no Unix code in Linux to sue over.
(7) Finally, if you look here:
http://www.patent-commons.org/
and here:
http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about_members.php
http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about_licensees.php
can you see the Novell logo?
Edited 2007-09-22 06:15
I attended to the SCO press conference back in 2003. I have not seen a single proof or evidence since.
Lets say we work for 35 years before retirement. I make living working with Linux and SCO spent 4 years attacking source of my income _without_ showing a reason of its attacks. I presume SCO will be around for at least a year because of bankruptcy filling, still poisoning and spreading FUD, making it 5 out of 35 of my productive years. Damn.
Management of SCO will benefit from ordering PLMAG for the years to come, I presume. http://www.plmag.org/
“Si tu craches en l’air, ca va te retomber sur le nez.”
English saying (in the rest of Canada): “Don’t eat yellow snow.”
This does not look good for SCO. i suggest to whoever is running SCO products needs to upgrade to something else.
to me it was more a fast trying to make money despite of all risks. It is like “play with someone else money” and/or as a proxy. If you lose, well, was not your money anyway, and you still have a change to collect something.
I hope Darl and whoever collaborated with him on this “vendetta” get their own accounts used to minor the loss and GET IN JAIL as an example to whoever wants to follow the same path.
with crap spewed in every direction to misdirect the media. The pump & dump rewarded the execs by many $100Ks as they drove SCOX from $2 to near $20. Darl cashed out when it reached $12 (see EDGAR). Their stock options plan was designed to reap from the stock price which they then controlled at will with any media lies they liked.
Mike Anderer and Darl had a IP litigation history from their previous ventures.
When Darl replaced Love at Caldera, he brought in Mike to look for gold in the 95 APA. He told Darl their was no copyright transfer but who would ever know. There was too much APA info for the media to digest so they got to cherry pick or mis represent it very easily. One of the biggest lies that persisted was that old SCO paid over $100M when they really they issued $50 in stock to Novell. When old SCO sold this business to Caldera, the price about $15M IIRC.
Darl,
I’m sure some idiot venture capitalist will find another company for you to screw up………..heh-heh, but then again perhaps not.
bortaS bIr jablu’DI’ reH QaQqu’ nay’
Seriously, we should be grateful to Darl for making himself flypaper for idiots like Rob Enderle.
Here today, SCO-n tomorrow!
“Ah’m gonna warsh mai dawg an rench ‘im auf!”
I’m from New Mexico where the official language is actually Spanish and the language of business is English.
We generally hire translators to understand mono-lingual Texan speakers.
In any case, E’Dios SCO.
I posted a couple of items on my blog concerning this whole SCO mess. Frankly, I lay the blame at Darl boy’s feet. Linux killed SCO? Yeah, I don’t think so. If Linux was such a big nasty threat to a company such as SCO, which from what I recall had a fairly good sized customer base, then why has MS been able to pick up so much steam in the server room? And, why hasn’t Linux killed Sun?
My comments are here:
http://itjobsrus.blogspot.com/2007/09/sco-darl-screwed-you.html
&
http://itjobsrus.blogspot.com/2007/09/sco-my-condolences.html
– o
http://itjobrus.blogspot.com
Caldera never did the development on SCO Unix or Unixware that it needed to stay alive. Sun is working very hard at developing Solaris into something people want.
LOL It’s couldn’t have happened to a better company. So long SCO, stick it in your A$%
Isn’t this actually a bad thing? Linux was never proven in a court of law to not contain any UNIX code- granted, it’s pretty obvious that SCO didn’t have a case and was just stalling with all their legal might, but the end of this lawsuit accomplishes nothing.
SCO and whoever else wants to can still get away with claim Linux contains infringing code, because it was never demonstrated in a court of law that it doesn’t. Granted, all the evidence points to Linux being completely free of it, but we’ve been saying that for years.
The bankruptcy judge has told Novell to move to unstay the case in Utah.
The bankruptcy trustee may eventually enter admissions to the IBM counterclaims to settle that suit with the least amount of expense to the creditors.
All hope is not lost even though the weasels seem to be trying to tunnel out and escape.
SCO have been given complete access to AIX development history, and have been desperately searching for over four years to come up with some evidence … anything at all … to show Unix code in Linux. SCO utterly failed to find any.
Other parties have done independent audits and obtained the exact same result. There is no Unix code in Linux.
Finally, during the discovery, and internal SCO email was unearthed where SCO had done their own audit of their own Linux before the trial began. SCO’s own technicians and programmers found … no Unix code in Linux.
Have you got that yet?
There is no Unix code in Linux.
IBM get your office supply here.
New business for SCO- Copyright of name?
Edited 2007-09-21 20:14
Hasta la vista Sco.
c’est la vi
In the 23rd century we have a saying:
“They’re dead, Jim; Let’s go have a mint julep.”
In german, we say:
Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!…
Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Actually we say
Wer anderen eine Grube graebt, faellt selbst hinein.
Wenn du nicht willst, was man dir tut, das fueg auch keinem Anderen zu.
Wie man in den Wald hinein ruft, so ruft es hinaus.
ZzzzZzz
We have a saying: R"att at de giriga fanskapen!
Please, tell me when I should stop laughing. The article’s quotes from Darl have got to be the best piece of standup comedy this side of (insert name of *really good* comedian here).
I think if there were ever any Unix code in Linux (doubtful), its long gone/replaced by now.
SCO is just using their lawsuit in hopes of scoring a big win and saving their company. But the fact of the matter is…their stock is at 16 cents per share and they are to be delisted from NASDAC in just a few days.
…it’s a bad loser.
Good riddance to bad rubbish, say I.