Submitted by About a year ago, Dell made an important move. Pushed by thousands of comments in its IdeaStorm website, the company started offering Ubuntu preloaded on a small selection of its machines. Initially only a US-based program, but later on, some European countries followed. However, criticism was not absent; buyers complained the machines were hard to find on Dell’s website and that Dell did not do enough to promote sales of the Ubuntu machines. Today, Dell has commented on the whole Dell-Ubuntu marriage.In an interview with ComputerWorld a few days ago, Dell said that “sales of the Linux-loaded machines are encouraging”. However, they refuse to give out any specific sales figures. “A [sales] number is not going to validate it as much as our actions to date,”, they said. As for the lack of promotion, they claimed that Linux enthusiasts will find the machines anyway, promotion or not. “If you know Linux, you’re going to know we sell Dell products with Linux on them.” They did not exclude the possibility of Linux-centric advertising in the future.
Personally, I always feel that if a company has a hit on their hands, or even reaches sales estimates, they will be shouting it off the rooftops – if they decline to give any detailed information, or use fairly vague and indeterminate terms like ‘encouraging’, it usually means that either sales are so-so, or that they are downright bad.
Interestingly enough, even if Dell were to give more detailed figures with regards to the amount of machines it has sold pre-loaded with Linux, we still would not be aware of how many Dell machines actually have Linux running on them. How many of you have bought a Windows Dell laptop, only to remove Windows afterwards, replacing it with Ubuntu, OpenSUSE (or whatever your choice of distribution may be) instead?
Which brings us full circle to the usual problem when it comes to ‘counting’ Linux machines. Who is keeping track of all the enthusiasts who download and install Linux?
Mark me down for one. I have a Dell desktop here at work that came with Vista pre-loaded and it’s running CentOS 5. The only hassle has been the crappy ATI drivers in Linux, but they seem to be requred for dual-display.
It dual-boots Ubuntu as well, but I rarely use it since it doesn’t seem like CentOS’s idea of .gnome is compatible with Ubuntu’s.
Same here.
In my team, we have ~8 laptops: 7 came with Windows preinstalled (the last one without a pre-installed).
However, currently:
1: Windows 2K3.
3: Windows XP.
1: CentOS5.
3: Fedora Core 8.
In theory, by using the sales figure, my team has 87.5% Windows machines – while in reality, it’s 50%/50%.
– Gilboa
In the last two years:
8 boxes with winblows that now run ubuntu
1 laptop with winblows now running ubuntu
2 dell ubuntu boxes
1 dell server runnung ubuntu
I take particular joy in formatting Vista installs.
Just for my personal statistic: How old are you?
You’d be surprised how many otherwise intelligent adults think that misnaming things is somehow cute, witty, and/or funny.
Agreed, from the standpoint of someone whos almost used Linux a decade this is just childish.
Yeah, but I still chuckle at it.
Look people…
A grown up among us
Just to satisfy my curiosity, how high on the anal retentivity scale would you rate yourselves?
Not related to myself but I’m betting you want something along the lines of “deep and wide” to satisfy your question.
Thank you! I’m glad I’m not the only one that that annoys
It’s progress.
I don’t expect any ‘mass exodus’ soon, (because when a computer comes with Windows, a regular person saves nothing money-wise then switching to Linux) but I hope eventually there will be a healthier OS market where manufacturers are forced to support more than one platform. This will improve code quality as things have to be done right from the start to support multiple platforms. And we could all do with better drivers and better software.
..until they want to add applications of course…
Edited 2008-04-18 10:16 UTC
I dunno, been awhile since I bought a windows program that wasn’t a game. I either use free programs or.. borrow.. copies from friends or my friend Mr. Bittorent.
In which case, Windows looks like a much better deal to them, because they can find applications on the shelf to put on their PC. With Linux, they can’t find applications, because the average PC user is too ill-informed about OpenSource, Free Software, and the like.
Exactly; why do you think people buy Norton and McAfee? Because it’s on the shelf and that’s how they know how to buy things. Linux isn’t going to help this one iota, free or not.
Can’t find applications? Most of what people need is already there in most distro installs, and todays ‘mainstream’ brands make a point of showing the user how easy it is to add more.
But really, only those that are interested in making the move to Linux will bother with it anyway. These people will at least inform themselves of what that entails.
As for the argument that an application is just a ‘bittorrent’ away…well…I’ll just say my definition of ‘free’ is different to theirs.
Having recently got over my earlier aversion to Dell due to a bad customer service experience ten years ago I’ld buy one now, largely due to their linux offering which earned them a few brownie points in my book.
And their laptops seem very cheap these days. However still got a few concerns over service and returns, and in the end I’ll still rather go for a Thinkpad probably.
Maybe one day though.
I’ve 2 Dell laptops OEM’d with Windows XP and both are dual-boot now. And I hardly recall moment when I last booted XP. And the last Dell Optiplex desktop was bought without any OS (XP OEM licence was removed by vendor and cost deducted from the invoice).
And all the boxes are mix of Debian Etch or Lenny. I’m happy and I’ve never looked back.
And tens of servers at work are Debian anyway
Edit:
One Dell laptop is 5 years old and runs modern OS like Debian Lenny without trouble (untweaked). So… not much need for costly hardware upgrades. Would one achieve the same with Vista?
Edited 2008-04-17 17:24 UTC
I would love to see the Dell-Linux experiment take off, but reading some of these quotes gives me the feeling that Dell isn’t that enthusiastic about it – even if it is doing well:
“As for the lack of promotion, they claimed that Linux enthusiasts will find the machines anyway, promotion or not.”
If the numbers are “encouraging”, why not try to market their Linux-running computers to people who have either never heard of it or simply haven’t yet tried it out? After all, it’s hard to imagine that most Linux users didn’t start out with something else or have run multiple OS’s simultaneously. It just comes across sounding like they don’t want to piss off Microsoft.
Edited 2008-04-17 17:16 UTC
Hmmm, a company in Redmond Wash. kindly $uggesting not to ?
Dell is Microsoft’s largest source of revenue. They bundle more copies of Windows with their machines than any other vendor.
Dell told Microsoft flat out that their deadline for selling XP licenses was unacceptable, and got it extended.
I think you have the tail and the dog mixed up here.
AFAIR their reasoning is something along these lines: “we don’t want to make our Linux _too_ visible to avoid confused customers buying Linux when in fact they want Windows. It would cause a support nightmare.”
Not that I think it’s not BS…
Dell is afraid of Microsoft, pure and simple. Does anyone remember what Microsoft did to Compaq and Be Inc. back in the day? Bill Gates himself visited Compaq and “persuaded” them to back out of a Be/Compaq exclusive deal. The same thing happened when Hitachi wanted to sell dual-boot BeOS/Windows systems in Japan.
Granted, Microsoft no longer has such monopolistic power on the surface, thanks to antitrust lawsuits, but they still know how to play dirty and I’m positive Dell doesn’t want to anger the one company they depend on for the bulk of their business. Dell isn’t trying to sell dual-boot machines but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve had a stern talking-to from Microsoft’s lawyers about exactly how much advertising they can do for their alternative PCs. It’s shitty and it pisses me off, but it’s the way the IT world works right now unfortunately.
For more information about these despicable tactics:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/20/be_inc_sues_microsoft/
http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/
See my comment above. Dell now and Compaq then are completely different in terms of their leverage with Microsoft.
Ballmer’s a douche, but Michael Dell is a bigger douche and he doesn’t blink.
I don’t really buy that. Why would they be told not to advertise, but be allowed to sell it at all?
I purchased a n Inspiron 1420N with ubuntu preinstalled and I’m really glad I did. Just open the box, press on the power button and ubuntu loads up. Dell also preinstalls a menu entry in grub that allows you to restore the preinstalled OS if you manage to mess it up.
Beside that, buying ubuntu preloaded computer is a very good way to support your favorite distribution. If people buy ubuntu laptops, dell will invest more into it. If dell invests more into it, the product will get better. If the product gets better, more people will want to buy it. If more people want to buy it, more companies will want to invest in it.
Companies like Nvidia and ati won’t invest in the development of open source drivers unless they see a market for it.
So hurry and get yours
http://www.dell.com/ubuntu
Oh and as a side effect it’s $50 cheaper than the same laptop with windows…
A couple of months ago, Dell announced an Inspiron 1420 Laptop and a MT530 Desktop, preloaded with Ubuntu 7.10, available for sale in Latin America.
Playing with the shopping cart in their web page, I can save up to U$S 80 with the same hardware, compared to the Vista-preloaded laptop. So, I can “use” those U$S 80 to ask for a bigger hard drive, a better screen and a better OS.
Edited 2008-04-17 18:27 UTC
Recently my girlfriend bought a Dell machine. This was a model that was offered with Ubuntu in the US, but not in The Netherlands. She runs GNU/Linux, so she asked for a refund. They kindly provided a refund for Vista and Works:
http://tinyurl.com/5wbjaj
I hope dell get a more open view of this marked and start to sell this laptops here. I want to buy one few months ago but i can’t.
I have old inspirion 6400 with ubuntu and work fine but its not mine belongs to my employer.
Personally i did install more that 25 laptops with ubuntu some dell and some others brands so a lot of laptops work with linux.
45segundos.com
Apart from being ridiculously hard to find Dell Linux desktops (“Open Source desktops”, what?!), Dell refuse to give the same discount offers (free postage, extra RAM/hard disk space/money off etc.) to the Ubuntu models that they do to the ones they pre-load with Windows.
I’d been after a quad core desktop with a half-decent 3D card in it (but no monitor) for a while, but here in the UK, prices were starting at 500 pounds ($1000) for a low-spec’ed machine, rising to 800 pounds ($1600) once you threw in plenty of RAM, hard disk space and a mid-range 3D card.
Imagine my surprise when Dell *finally* put quad core CPUs on their desktops and came out with a Vostro business model with an HD 2600 XT card in it (don’t ask me why anyone but CAD/graphic designers need such a card in businesses, but hey, it’s good for games). Price for the quad core model with Vista Business pre-installed? Something like 415 pounds ($830)!
I checked the Ubuntu models – *none* of them offer a quad core option and the price of their dual core models were very close to the Vostro 400 I bought, albeit with a worse CPU, less hard drive space, a worse 3D card, one less optical drive (Vostro 400 came with two).
After dumping the shipped partitions to an external USB hard drive for safe-keeping (always pays to restore them if you need to ship the machine back for repair), I’ve now dual booted between 64-bit Fedora 8 (which runs great on it – throw in the livna repo for the ATI drivers and 3D performance is very good) and 64-bit Vista (what a dog that is, even with SP1 installed). Needless to say, I spend 95% of my time in F8 – Vista is booted into to play some games.
I wish Dell would just offer Ubuntu as a normal option on their desktops/laptops, rather than having a completely separate “n” models that are deliberately “hidden” with an obscure link. Until they do that, pre-installed sales of Ubuntu on Dell machines won’t take off. Now where’s the Fedora 9 Preview release…can’t wait to get that on the Vostro…
Edited 2008-04-17 19:20 UTC
After numerous bad experiences, I would never buy another dell again. IMO this is a desperate grab for customers by a company that used to be pretty good, but has managed to completely destroy its reputation, at least for the general public.
Every interaction with dell has cost me hours of frustration, and rarely gets resolved well. By contrast, I have never waited more then five minutes to talk to an HP rep, they have been knowledgable and friendly, and have sent me over 200$ worth of replacement stuff with no fighting, yelling, or threatening going on on either side.
What would be even BETTER for Dell then offering ubuntu on a few machines in some dusty corner of their website, or painting their laptops funky colors, would be to actually put out good quality hardware, and stop outsourcing support to pakistan or wherever it is now.
‘Every interaction with dell has cost me hours of frustration, and rarely gets resolved well. By contrast, I have never waited more then five minutes to talk to an HP rep, they have been knowledgable and friendly, and have sent me over 200$ worth of replacement stuff with no fighting, yelling, or threatening going on on either side.”
I have had the reverse experience, with HP refusing to send parts and requiring the machine be sent back to them for repair. Also not having a native english speaker answer the phone. With Dell I always get someone that sounds like they are US based, and parts shipped out overnight with no hassles.
Was this while working for a large company? A good few years ago I worked for a small company which had a few Dell machines and found both Dell service and sales department totally uncaring. I remember speaking to at least one sales person who clearly seemed to have the attitude that he didn’t care one way or the other if we ordered the $30k-50k worth of servers we where looking at. If we wanted it we could order it off the web site, if not, it’s not like it would affect the bottom line, and either way could I please stop bothering him with questions. And fair enough $30k isn’t a lot of money for a company like Dell, but they could at least pretend to care.
On the other hand I had a friend who at the same time worked for a large company that had over 1000 Dell laptops and rooms full of Dell servers. He got truly amazing personal service, and couldn’t understand at all what people where talking about when complaining about Dells service.
“Was this while working for a large company?”
Actually no. It was with a company that had less than 50 employees. I have had the same thing happen with my personal equipment, meaning I have gotten good support when not affiliated with a company as well.
Most Linux entusiasts know where find the hardware they need without any special help from Dell.
They just go to http://www.lenovo.com.
Lenovo has a pretty good reputation; there was some worry after they took over the thinkpad brand that things might fall through – but given how reliably I’ve seen alternative operating systems run on their laptop range, I’m tempted in future when I replace this MacBook, to check out the PC world again.
I bet you would be shocked at how much pressure Microsoft is putting on Dell to keep these hidden.
Microsoft could be threatening to hold out millions of dollars they give to Dell for marketing.
Dell is afraid of losing that “income”. It’s not like anyone in the Linux world is going to replace those marketing dollars. Keep in mind that sales, even if Dell could replace EVERY XP/Vista computer with Linux computers they would make less money because they would loose all the marketing money from Microsoft.
So … do they know who butters their bread?
There’s a difference between whining at Dell and actually exerting leverage. Dell has to support Microsoft OSes and contractually, they do not have to support Ubuntu (this was part of their deal with Canonical).
This means if the OS is shit (like Vista is turning out to be), Dell gets angry customers blaming them.
Microsoft’s between a rock and a hard place: manufacturers are openly dissing Vista without any fear of reprisals, retail chains are screaming bloody murder over the “Vista Ready” badging program and the crippleware that is Home Basic/Home Premium, and the press has a field day reporting on all of this. Windows ME wasn’t this spectacular a mess.
MS chose to build a hardware-hungry OS in the middle of a recession, and their zeal to keep the APIs as similar as possible guarantees that developers will code to XP.
Apple gets away doing the same thing because that business model we were all laughing at (margins, not volume) actually works in all economic cycles.
Yes. Dell is getting pressure from Microsoft. The thing of it is, Dell can afford to ignore most of it because like Microsoft, they are ALSO an economies of scale company and can absorb any retaliatory measures Microsoft exerts on their license discounts, leaving Dell smelling like a rose.
Make sure that when you buy a Dell computer you don’t buy one with XP or Vista or any other version of Windows on it and then just overwrite it with Linux. If you do that, Microsoft gets money. Why should they get money if you aren’t going to be using Windows? It’s like paying Chevy when you bought a Ford.
Dell Desktop sales are growing but the two big linux encumbants are bailing on the Desktop…
Huh?!?!?
Well, one incumbent probably being referred to is Red Hat:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/17/red_hat_abandons_consumer_d…
http://www.osnews.com/story/19647/Red_Hats_Plans_on_the_Desktop
Perhaps Novell was meant as the other?
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3741476/Novell+The…
http://www.osnews.com/story/19648/Novell:_The_Standalone_OS_Is_Dead
It was probably a fair enogh comment, actually …
The only thing to note is that Dell installs Ubuntu on desktops … and RedHat on servers, I believe.
Edited 2008-04-18 06:19 UTC
You mean, this [1] RedHat?
– Gilboa
[1] http://www.osnews.com/story/19647/Red_Hats_Plans_on_the_Desktop
Sorry for sounding sarcastic (didn’t mean too)
RedHat didn’t leave the Desktop market – it just doesn’t believe in selling boxed version of desktop RHEL when there are fine free alternative around. (Including Fedora)
I assume that the same can be said about Novel.
– Gilboa
It is quite obvious that Microsoft’s Vista troubles are far from over. With their recent announcement on XP EOL they leave lots of unhappy users at a crossroad: Vista, Linux or Mac, with the latter appearing as a favorite and Ubuntu coming as a second option.
I don’t exactly know why Dell et al would insist in following Microsoft through the turmoil and keep snubbing Linux. I know however that this general attitude will have long term negative effects on their PC business, as more and more users are confronted with a choice: installing an OS that is relatively unknown, not so well advertised, nor really encouraged by visible vendors such as Dell and HP, or going with an OS backed by a marketing powerhouse such as Apple. Dell and friends seem to forget that the average user, once gone Mac hardly goes back.
I strongly feel that Dell’s attitude is not a Linux problem. To me it has the nefarious smell of politics. I don’t know what the underlying deal was with Microsoft, but if Dell felt that their Ubuntu solution did not help, they would shut it down. I’m positive that LOTS of people have asked Dell if it was possible to receive an OS free machine and save 50$, because they already have a copy of XP at home. We all know the answer to that. Why do they insist on installing a copy of windows on the goddamn machine?
This is not a Linux problem, it’s a Dell + Microsoft’s one.
If you ask most of these vendors “why so little linux?” they cover their ass by repeating the same mantra “we’re not sure that Linux is ready for the desktop”. This is bull doodoo and they know it. Was windows 98 ready for the desktop? Did users survive windows 98? Is Ubuntu better by order of magnitude than windows 98? Common now.