Submitted by While I can personally attest for the gains Microsoft made when it comes to Windows Vista’s performance between its release-to-manufacture November 2006 and now, there is no denying the fact that Vista simply isn’t made for running on lower-specced computers. In addition, while Vista brings interesting new features and massive overhauls of many subsystems, a lot of people simply don’t like it. Sadly for them, Windows XP is going out-of-sale 30 June. However, there are plenty of loopholes – PC World listed them.First of all, PC and hardware manufacturers can continue to sell the stockpile of Windows XP copies they might have, even after the 30 June cut-off date. The same obviously applies for local retailers; as long as they bought a stock of Windows XP licenses prior to the cut-off dat, they are free to sell them.
The second loophole has to do with something called downgrade rights – we already covered this loophole earlier when it became known. The gist is that within Vista Ultimate and Business licenses, there is a clause that allows you to continue to run an older version of Windows until you are ready to move to Windows Vista.
Ultra-low-cost-PCs or netbooks or whatever they’re called today (I lost track) lovers are generally in luck: Microsoft has extended the lifetime of Windows XP for these devices until June 2010, more or less admitting that Windows Vista simply doesn’t cut it for these limited devices. In fact, in order to compete with Linux in this niche of the market, Microsoft is offering discounts to OEMs.
A remaining issue is that of support. After the cut-off date, Microsoft will continue to release security fixes and public bug fixes for Windows XP until April 14, 2009. You can have paid support, and warranty claims are still valid. After that, and until April 8th, 2014, the company will only issue security updates, but no more public bug fixes (only companies with a support contract will receive bug fixes). Paid support is available, warranty claims will be void.
I dont like suggesting this method, but it would be silly for me to not admit that it does happen.
Three Steps to XP Bliss.
1 > Visit Torrent / Warez site. Pick your perfect Customized version of XP (Like Black, Mac XP, etc…)
2 > Download said sub-700Mb Iso.
3 > Burn, install, and disable Windows Update.
Profit!!!
There are plenty of people doing this, I personally have seen places that even have gone so far as to even have SP3 integrated in to the ISO.
Not that I am Telling people to do this, I am just saying that there is almost no way for Microsoft to stop people from getting XP.
I don’t think they want to stop people getting XP either. If they, hypothetically, managed to prevent Windows XP from running, even the pirate installs, with update turned off, people wouldn’t shell out for a copy of Vista. They’d have a look at Linux, just to keep their old hardware alive. That, or they’d throw it out, and pay roughly $3000 for a relatively future-proof machine. Unless, of course, Microsoft decides to f–k people over again with DirectX, like they did to the early adopters. When people bought Vista, and a DirectX 10 compatible video card, Microsoft went and rendered them all useless with DirectX 10.1.
You have to be kidding me. A 600$ machine will run vista like a dream. 3,000 and you are talking about 9600 GTX cards and RAID 0 Solid State drives
Edited 2008-06-06 02:29 UTC
I did say future proof. And I’m talking Australian prices. What I meant was, a machine that will be good for the next four years or so.
My machine, from 2001, had a 60USD mem upgrade and now runs Vista, with full Aero, just fine. A friend of mine is sending me a spare processor for free he had lying around (so I’m going from an Athlon XP 1600+ to a 2800+) and my machine will chug along just fine.
Vista runs just fine on most hardware sold within the past couple years, despite what the zealots say. You need at least 2GB of memory and a reasonable video card, of course, but the cost of those items is negligible. From what some people say, you’d think they had to give a kidney to get Vista running.
Edited 2008-06-06 06:44 UTC
Everything is negligible when your a clueless moron …
New Graphic card and ram are not given away for free.
It’s also pissing people of to have to add 200$ more for a 1500$ computer they just bought that as a Windows Vista ready sticker on it.
If I was a zealot you would be dead by now. Because that’s what zealot do and are , they kill people they disagree with. You have NEVER met a zealot in your life.
Don’t be so hard on yourself.
What?!? OEMs were giving away new graphic cards and RAM for free with XP? I had no idea. /sarcasm
That’s complete BS. The sweetspot for new Vista desktop machines is actually somewhere in the $600-800 ballpark, so you’re full of crap.
A broader definition of zealot is “a fanatical partisan”.
Oh, I most certainly have. Shake your own hand.
Edited 2008-06-06 22:04 UTC
I consider myself ignorant not a moron.
Yes , by giving XP the vista computer magically work properly , /lucid , logical and down right to the point
And they usually come with 1 Gig of ram and IGP and on-board graphic … But then agAin bs and crap is YOUR special talent and trademark.
Nope , that’s what your trying to push , but there is a deathly difference between the two.
See , you haven’t , if I where you would be dead. I also don’t shake the hand tru my monitor sorry …
No offense Thom , as you are really easily offended but your comparing apple to oranges and reading you current post is the clue.
* Who’s OEM vendor in 2001 where selling computer with easily swappable CPU ? Most of them where soldiering the CPU in those days and changing the CPU would void the warranty.
* What kind/brand of Motherboard are we talking about here one with expansion slot and upgradability ? That’s not really a 2001 OEM motherboard I know.
* What vista are you running and talking about ?
* What onboard graphic card from 2001 run Vista perfectly ?
Why all the upgrade then ?
When real people change there 2001 computer to a 2008 low end one they expect it to be faster , have better software , don’t crash and be secure and compatible with there older peripheric.
That’s not the case for most people and most low end offer currently on the market in a XP VS vista home comparison.
BTW : Aerio problem are usually at the GPU end not the cpu or ram.
* Who’s OEM vendor in 2001 where selling computer with easily swappable CPU ? Most of them where soldiering the CPU in those days and changing the CPU would void the warranty.
Never EVER seen a single OEM PC with soldered-on CPU! I have never even heard of such things before you claimed that! Besides, Thom never said if his PC is OEM or not..
* What kind/brand of Motherboard are we talking about here one with expansion slot and upgradability ? That’s not really a 2001 OEM motherboard I know.
What are you babbling about?
* What onboard graphic card from 2001 run Vista perfectly ?
Didn’t see him claiming such either.
So, what are you trying to do? Troll about Vista?
Local OEM here in The Netherlands, now called MyCom (used to be another name). Oh, and I’ve been dealing with computers for a long time, and I have NEVER seen a soldered-on processor in a normal home desktop machine. This one has a removable Athlon XP 1600+ at 1400Mhz, and a friend of mine from #haiku is sending me a 2800+ one he had lying around. It doesn’t need it though, Vista runs fine with the 1600+. But hey, I don’t turn down free upgrades.
Perhaps you don’t know everything. It’s an Epox EP-8KHA. Here’s a review:
http://active-hardware.com/english/reviews/mainboard/ep-8kha.htm
Windows Vista Ultimate, SP1.
Who said anything about onboard? I upgraded a long time ago to a cheap 60USD GeForce 6300 128MB AGP card.
“All the upgrade”? An extra stick of RAM and a cheap video card?
Look, I have no reason to lie about these things. I have a machine that’s so old it met Jesus, and it still runs Vista with a minor upgrade. You can blabber on about people buying low-end machines today, but I don’t care, nor did I ever mention anything to that effect. All I stated was that my stone age machine runs Vista JUST FINE. You are free to come by here in The Netherlands and see for yourself – assuming your satnav can find East-Bumblefcuk.
@Thom and @BluenoseJake
The point being made is your older computer made with better but older component as a better Windows Vista score then the Low end Vista computer sold in stores.
They (not yours ) come with bottom barrel Motherboard that barely do the job , that have no or almost no expansion slot and come with on-board GPU that barely do 2d properly.
Also Windows Vista **home** is a POS , that’s what most people complain about.
But it as the Windows Vista ready sticker on them …
Sorry, didn’t understand your post because of your previous idiotic statements.
“Who’s OEM vendor in 2001 where selling computer with easily swappable CPU ? Most of them where soldiering the CPU in those days and changing the CPU would void the warranty.”
Uh, Most of them, it’s only the most crappy, cheapest computers or MBs that come with soldered on CPUs, even in those days. None of the Dells, HPs or Gateways that I worked on in those days had soldered on CPUs.
“* What onboard graphic card from 2001 run Vista perfectly ? ”
Uh, none of them, but who said anything about onboard graphics? I run Vista on almost identical hardware to what Thom is going to be running (Athlon 2800+/X1650Pro/1.5G ram) and it runs Vista perfectly.
I run Vista on the same specs Thom does, and it works great.
//* Who’s OEM vendor in 2001 where selling computer with easily swappable CPU ? Most of them where soldiering the CPU in those days and changing the CPU would void the warranty.//
Stopped reading right there. You’re unbelievably stupid.
That’s a dream machine :
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/hp-blackbird-002/4505-3118_7-32592…
Find me a 600$ that as the same score , then I will agree with your nonsense.
Also anyone who is not you and knowledgeable and actually realistic know that a 600$ offer from OEM vendor is like having a 200-300$ system , because the OEM have to include there profit , some support fee , warranty , legal copy of the included OS and software , that are as much as the hardware cost this days and also the peripherals ( monitor , keyboard , mouse and speakers. )
That’s Dell current Graphic card choice in Australia :
– ATI Radeon^a"c HD 3870 X2 1024MB GDDR3
– ATI Radeon^a"c HD 3870 512MB GDDR4
– 768MB NVIDIA^A(R) GeForce^A(R) 8800 Ultra
– 768MB NVIDIA^A(R) GeForce^A(R) 8800 GTX
– 512MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GT
– 256MB NVIDIA^A(R) GeForce^A(R) 8600 GTS TurboCache^a"c
– 256MB ATI Radeon^a"c HD 2600 XT HyperMemory^a"c
– 128MB ATI Radeon^a"c HD 2400 Pro HyperMemory
Notice the lack of option to pick the 9600 GTX cards …
Also is point was really that the low end machine sold by the majority of computer vendor always have one problem or another and that you need a 3000$ AUD ( Aka 1500$ CAD/USD ) to have a really full proof Vista computer. He is right too.
I refuse to listen to anything you say until you stop violating OSAlert Terms of Use
I. No gratuitous use of profanity, biting sarcasm, or personal disparagement, especially directed at individuals.
II. No personal attacks on story authors, other readers, or news editors of this web site.
III. Even if you are in violent disagreement or have strong feelings, find a way to keep your comments calm, and try to explain your reasoning, instead of just ranting.
Although you are getting better, you used to not be able to post without violating five or more.
“Also is point was really that the low end machine sold by the majority of computer vendor always have one problem or another and that you need a 3000$ AUD ( Aka 1500$ CAD/USD ) to have a really full proof Vista computer. He is right too.”
No. You don’t. Any 600 dollar computer with a DirectX 9 VC with 128M of ram will do, and I have done it. Stop exaggerating.
1. CPUs haven’t been soldered onto motherboards for over 20 years.
2. AUD3000 is ~USD2700 and rapidly rising. The AUD will probably be worth more than the USD by Xmas.
3. I have a dual 9333MHz P3 from 2001 with 2Gb of ram (4x512MB).
4. You can easily build a sub $600 machine with top quality components.
5. Most of the market is for low end machines with integrated graphics. Probably no more than 1% of the market is for ‘dream machines’. Virtually all current PCs are adequate for the next 5 years or so. However it is much cheaper to upgrade a new mid-range PC every year than a buy high-end machine every three years. This year’s $3000 PC will be easily outclassed by next year’s $1500 machine.
Re: torrenting Windows
I really would like to see:
(1) A stat for the number of people running Windows they haven’t paid for, and
(2) The number of people who really have a problem with this vs. people who pretend they do or make disclaimers about it to stay out of trouble.
Edited 2008-06-06 15:47 UTC
Yeah, except ordinary people don’t install operating systems. They get an OS installed when they buy a new PC from Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc. So, unless the vast numbers of consumers suddenly become geeks, it just ain’t gonna happen…
well, it happens, in the end. A PC user that does not end up learning atleast something is not worthy of owning a PC to begin with, even if it is just to write emails about how Fluffy the Cat and Kosmos the Dog are doing.
Um, no. It doesn’t. Microsoft reported that less than 1% of its sales can be attributed to upgrades; which means that the overwhelming majority of users are dependent on OEMs to install their OS.
First, no one falls in that category, since it’s impossible to use a computer at all without learning at least something. Second, people don’t care about your regard for their “worthiness” to own a PC, and I don’t blame them. Third, using a computer to browse the web and do email is completely different than installing an OS, which requires some degree of technical skill.
For some reason this comment showed up in the wrong thread. So I am deleting it.
Edited 2008-06-06 15:44 UTC
I really dont see why people move to Vista. I mean, if your PC comes with it, then fine, re-format and put XP on it. I have been called more times to fix Vista problems than XP problems, and I mean that for the whole time that XP has been out VS Vista’s time out.
It is almost as if MS has decided to say “F**K You, we are doing this OUR Way, and Your going to like it.”
Moral of the story? Grab XP, forget Vista.
i think it was more like:
“we do what the MPAA wants even though we should ideally have control over how our own products work.”
you could always just activate now and make a ghost image for it. whether they shut it off or not you’ve always got an activated image to use.
activation cracks work effortlessly on both and if you get a corp image (for xp) there isn’t activation at all.
if you don’t look out though in a few years you’ll end up working on an xp “haiku”.
Are you perhaps referring to ReactOS ( http://www.reactos.org )? It’s been slow going, just like Haiku, but perhaps in a couple of years it will become much more relevant and thus a real option for those who just can’t give up XP.
2014 is quite far away. For the bulk of users, just security updates is more than enough, new functionality could be installed from other vendors.
Useless article. I was hoping they would tell us about some type of work around to disable XP activation…You see, I purchased XP legitimately and I am very happy with it. I have no doubt Microsoft can stuff us all up remotely by permanently labeling our PCs’ XP versions “inoperable” and make them stop working by crap such as “you have exceeding the maximum number of activations for this PC” or even may be “license expired”. You know, if they do that, they will stuff them selves up because people will start to hate them and out of that, they’ll go with a non MS OS. If they do this, legitimate users will pay the price yet again! I never re-install Windows. I have an image file and whenever I require a format, I just load the file onto the disk. This saves me from activating again and again otherwise you will get the “you have exceeding the maximum number of activations for this PC” message very quickly.
The bad thing is, even if you buy a new XP copy now, you might get into trouble. MS can simply shutdown the activation servers and how will you then actiavte your brand new copy of XP? Can they really do that? Will they? I don’t know.
I have always respected MS in the past, I think they make great products but things change when they make these moves. Anyway, although Vista sucks, their UI is very polished, there is no denial about that.
Edited 2008-06-06 02:46 UTC
Yes I have a great problem with this. I want to buy a new computer sometime before Christmas. I have several games that only run on XP. They are copy protected and thus will neither work under WINE or Vista. So I want to get XP for this machine. However if I cannot activate XP on the machine I will be stuffed. This will lead me to the dilemma of not playing the products I paid good money for or doing something illegal in order to get them to work.
As far as I can see I will need to either crack the games, or break XP’s activation scheme.
Or maybe contact the game company. Seriously, if you support a company that provides such shitty “copy protection”, then you should expect them to support you when it fails.
MS announced that it will be available for small desktops as well a few days ago.
And so I would like to repeat myself here:
XP seems to be all they can hold to these days
Why on earth are you talking windows this, windows that when there are much better alternatives out there??
Why would anyone in 2008 bother with the hanging blue-screen of useless crap is beyond me!! At the place I work people are having major problems with Vista, the docking stations wont work, they hang, they can’t handle our firewall etc etc.. More and more of them are switching to SuSE linux.
Look Alive People !!
Get a OS X, get a *BSD or get a linux machine. Don’t pay for crap!
And if your problem is office than yes yes OpenOffice has been able to read and write to binary proprietary MS formats for years.
The grass IS greener on this side!!
regards/jns
Perhaps so, but how much does it cost to switch to these better alternatives. Sure, Linux, OpenSolaris and various BSD versions are free, but the process of switchin certainly is not. There are costs for document conversion, testing, training users and support organisation. There may be good free replacement for many third party commersial windows apps, but chances are that you find one or two apps that is hard to replace. For one thing, what will you do with all software you developed in house.
In 2008 blue screens are very rare in XP, I would say that X11 hangs more often in Linux than you get a blue screen of deth in win2k, or XP. Now a hanging X server isn’t as serious a blue screen of deth as you still can ssh into your box and do some fixes. However, to the average user a hanging X11 is just as bad as a windows blue screen of death as it most likely kills his current desktop work.
In XP or Linux the reason for bluescreen of death or failing X servers usually are faulty drivers, so the way to avoid these problems regardless of OS would be to make sure that your hardware really are fully supported.
I’m not so sure switching to OSX is such a good way out for a windows shop. First of all they will have to switch to Macs all over, If they are prepared to do that they could just as well switch to Vista compatible hardware where Vista runs well.
Second, Apple is not good at supporting their software and hardware over a longer period of time, and it is not uncommon for Apple to just abandon the users that don’t upgrade to the latest and greatest. (E.g A/UX->Apple-AIX with no reasonable upgrade path followed by Apple-AIX just discontinued with no upgrade path at all, or look how Apple handles Java).
Sad to say it, but to many companies the cheapest alternative is to stay locked in. What’s cheap or expensive usually is determined on how it looks in the quarterly financial reports.
1) There is no document conversion, OpenOffice already handles all major formats including MS word. At work Im on a SuSE linux machine, some of my colleagues run OS X and some WinNT and we all edit the same docs. no problemo in that area.
2) You are only locked in to software and hardware for so long. If something better turns up in those ares you should be able to switch and take your docs and what-not with you to that platform. Already today people expect to access content and files from all kinds of platforms.
I just don’t understand why people and corporations in 2008 still choose the most expansive and crappy products. I mean, there’s no useful CLI! IE hang every second time i try to use it! How come I need a expansive powerhorse just to boot the OS? How come I need some special workaround to get VPN working? etc etc. How come there are 9 options in some menu behind the ‘Start’ button for just putting my laptop to sleep when all I need to do on my MacBook is close the lid..??
I’ll stop here for now
You’ve obviously never had to open even a moderately complicated Excel worksheet with embedded pivot tables.
98.9% of computer users would have no need for a CLI.
Funny, that doesn’t happen on my box. You have sh*t hardware?
Three-year-old P4 system here, with a 128 MB vid card. Runs Vista Ultimate just fine. Again, sh*t hardware?
Took me all of two minutes to get my VPN setup on Vista. PBCM on your end.
Start (in lower left corner, since you apprently can’t find it) –>Control Panel–>Power Options. That was hard.
Good. Shut the hell up already.
I’ll explain it to you. Despite what you think, the alternative products all have their own problems (eg. compatibility, missing functionality, hidden costs, quality issues, etc) that either aren’t obvious or important to you. Quite frankly, anybody who argues that OpenOffice is “better” than MS Office is so full of crap that it boggles the imagination. It’s not a bad suite, I’ll grant you, but there’s a reason why corporates are willing to pay for MS Office compared to using a free suite, and it isn’t simply because they like to set money on fire. Most corporations have pilot programs of one kind or another where they try out alternative office suites, operating systems, etc — heck, they routinely use such programs to negotiate more favorable licensing terms with Microsoft — and I trust them to know their own interests better than you; so, you really need to look at the big picture before you make such simplistic conclusions based on anecdotal experiences which don’t apply to most corporations.
Edited 2008-06-06 22:17 UTC
I lift my hat off and say thank you to you whom have responded to why you stick with MS.
For me (and for more more of my colleagues) OS X and linux are better bets.
Take care!
regards/jns
Well, OSX is certainly NOT a way for many people. That way one would have to rely on software _and_ hardware from one seller. Bad. Very, very bad.
PS: What I don’t undestand is why people don’t run Linux or BSD. I have been running * Linux for ages, and I have always been able to do with it what I wanted. Granted, I don’t play games. But even that is not a major problem nowadays.
Erm…because the article is talking about acquiring XP?
//Why would anyone in 2008 bother with the hanging blue-screen of useless crap is beyond me!! At the place I work people are having major problems with Vista,//
I dual-boot Vista and Fedora 9. Use both about equally depending on the task.
I’ve had zero .. ZERO … problems with Vista, this on a three-year-old P4 system.
Perhaps you, and the people you work with are dum-dums .. or the hardware you use is shite?
I have Vista running on two brand new systems here at home, on which it came preinstalled. It runs like crap on both.
Edited 2008-06-06 15:49 UTC
… which proves nothing, since just because your hardware is new doesn’t mean it’s not crappy.
That grass may be greener, that explains your post. It must smoke real good…
Linux is not for everybody, OS X is not for everybody, please this is a topic about WINDOWS not Linux or any thing else. Go drag your soapbox somewhere else.
People should be able to make their choice of OS themselves, defined by their own requirements and opinions, without having to listen to rants from people like you.
preaching to the choir on this one…
I love the *Nix variants. i even have a laptop that is so old (P1, 32 Mb Ram) i can only install FreeDOS on it, and i am happy with that!
kinda.
Osx ?
Please, we are trying to keep our prefered SO, fighting against the most important soft company and its marketing decisions and you are telling about OSX ?
Here there’s a difference, I think. For OSX people every thing is right. You might be rich and conformist. Every time Apple say to throw away your computers you agree and also feel happy. Incredible.
And I want to tell you other thing. XP defenders are happy with their programs, not the operating system, so, again, the war is in other place, no what’s better, if OSX or Windows.
Apple funs, you will never learn. Only have mind to get into windows news and say come on, come to OSX/OS9/OS8 ..
It’s like being in an ex-alcoholic meeting where people cry about its dependence on whisky and some gay come to say them “don’t drink whisky, wine is better”.
Kind Regards
Well at least you don’t generalize or stereotype. And I appreciate that.
I am already running XP on multiple PCs. I have my CDs the support (EOL) will be still carried on until 2010 i think. I am not gonna purchase XP or a new PC with XP.
If I need XP I will install it. This deadline has no meaning what so ever.
Can I still “activate” Windows XP?
(not that I need to, but many others do)
Found an interesting blog. Turns out that, despite what the lame tech press is saying, Vista is indeed faster than XP in graphics performance. Follow the white rabbit…
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=458&page=1