Submitted by When I read this item in the backend submission queue, I must admit that I thought it was a fake, and I must say that I’m still not confident enough about this one. A Korean company held a press event today during which it launched its Tmax Window operating system. Built on in-house technology, they claim it has 100% compatibility with Windows software. Update: A lot more information in this article.
The company is called TmaxCore, but since my Korean is a little rusty, all I have to go by is a press release being propagated around the web. They’ve been hyping this one up for a while as well, and as promised, the unveiled the system today at the Grand InterContinental Hotel in Seoul. Sadly, few sites not written in Foreign seem to be reporting on this one, and I obviously wasn’t there either.
Anyway, what does the press release claim? Full, 100% compatibility with Windows. They say it has been built over the past 4 years, using their own technology; this page should shine more light on the innards – at least, if you can read Korean. There’s also this page which details kernel features – it sounds pretty awesome.
“TmaxCore has consulted with vendors of computer parts and major PC manufacturers to conduct extensive interoperability and driver compatibility tests, and is now moving quickly toward releasing a finished product,” the press release reads, “After a one-month test period starting in October, during which general users can ‘test-drive’ the product for free, Tmax Window will be available for purchase.”
Furthermore, there’s this feature list:
- Compatibility with MS Windows and MS Office suite
- Stability through microkernel and avoidance of “feature bloat”
- Compatibility with applications from a wide range of operating systems
- A database management system (DBMS) included for efficient data management
- Security settings that can be tailored to the individual or enterprise user
- User interface that feels familiar to users of MS Windows
Apparently, it boots very quickly, and during the demonstration, it ran Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer, and it’s also capable of running UNIX applications. Interesting, but I’m still very sceptical. I’ll reserve judgement until I get my hands on Tmax Window.
I wonder how long this will last before Microsoft shuts them down?
My initial speculation would be that maybe they used ReactOS code in creatting this OS
That was my initial thought as well but if you read more about it the system seems to be very different under the hood.
Read the update… the account of one developer said they used BSD, Linux, and ReactOS. They’ll get sued.
english.etnews.co.kr describes the event in more detail, saying they were running Office 2003 (with some lag in typing), IE (with minor glitches) and StarCraft (with some instability).
Looks to be using regular Windows drivers, too, instead of rolling their own.
Sounds about like WINE.
Though there is no lagging with Wine for Office 2003 and Strarcraft works without any instability issues.
IE is a glitch itself.
Edited 2009-07-08 19:07 UTC
I was writing my own article on this subject, to submit to OSAlert originally. It is still being written (and has bad English) but I wish it hopeful for curious.
http://cosmic.mearie.org/2009/07/tmax-window/
Edited 2009-07-08 18:34 UTC
Wow. After reading your article is seems Tmax Window probably isn’t anything more than a complete ripoff of free software, without attribution. We won’t really know until it is released. It certainly sounds “too good” to be true by reading the article.
Unlikely. They probably used an old version of Wine with the Mit/X license so they don^A't have to release the code.
Any word on pricing? If they borrowed heavily from ReactOS I would imagine that they would have to sell this for next to nothing or give it away for free.
I once heard that its price will be about half to two thirds of Windows 7 price, but I forgot the source.
If that were the case and I had to choose between the two, I would probably go with Windows.
thanks for reporting the news, but I doubt this so called “new OS” has really anything new.
Although the concept is interesting (especially running windows driver), most of this can be achieved with Wine as previously mentionned. I think everybody would like to see a project like that come to fruition but microsoft wouldn’t be far with their software patent to block this in the US (where software patent apply)
Looks like what ReacotOS 1.0 would be, except with more lawsuit’s…
Lawsuit from who? Is there any company working in Korea which would sue there? Is this kind of copying even illegal in *korean* law? Or maybe there is some lone developer, who will try his rights in court. Do you think anyone would be so stupid. People go missing in Korea all the time.
Hello? “People go missing … all the time”? Do you mean North Korea? We are talking about South Korea here. It is of course illegal in Korean law to do such action against original license. There was a recent law suite about GPL code copy thing. It was about a ppp daemon if I remember correctly. There is a GNU staff in Korea as well. I am not sure whether it is still going on though.
Unless you understand hangul. And they don’t sign that will translate it to anything else.
So, let’s wait for the people that can handle it for the comments on compatibility and most important – usability.
From reading comments for this article It looks like that OSAlert readers have already made up their mind. ” made in Korea” OS is inferior to “not invented here” or western OS systems.
Now you will say..oh..they have to prove themselves etc etc…Who cares…
Remember many of you have already using samsung, LG p Hundai products..
There isn’t any bias. Creating a windows compatible operating system is an impossibly difficult, so what you are seeing is a large amount skepticism.
Wine and ReactOS provide a high degree of compatibility, but it will never reach 100%, windows is just too big, too poorly documented, and is a moving target.
Because of the difficulty in building a windows compatible system from scratch, some people are speculating that they are using Wine and ReactOS code.
uKernel BSD (not hybrid likeMacOSX) it is interesting anyway because it seems like an amalgam of Reactos running over QNX. About the drivers I cannot yet conclude. Anyway, it is interesting.
even if they borrowed liberaly it’s still a major feat. i read somewhere that they invested about 1200 man years in this. sadly they’ll probably need to invest the same amount of work and time to get the missing 5% done.
Very few South Koreans touched and experienced Linux. South Korea is a country that hasn’t exposed to FOSS decently.
I’m South Korean and not many people are hyped about TMAX because all the media impressions and ads are too sensation-oriented (more like gimmicky). I don’t think TMAX Windows will fly high. Instead the good news is that the TMAX developers will learn a valuable lesson and a reasonable experience afterwards.
But there are good reasons for the justification of making a new operating system catered towards South Koreans. From what I know:
1. Microsoft & Intel are on the black list of trading controversies in South Korea for a very long time
2. South Korean software and game companies are losing faith in Windows’ performance
3. Many professionals working for South Korean web portals (Nate and Yahoo! Korea) are not satisfied with Windows’ performance
4. National security issues for databases and need for something “isolated” like an independent OS
5. Desperate reformation of South Korea’s tech industry
If you think about it, average South Koreans need a new operating system that caters the unique needs of them.
(I declare first that I am a *BSD/BeOS fan and OK with Linux and feel-not-so-good with Windows.)
Unfortunately I think that is the opposite. Many companies would die for Microsoft and Windows. They still only accept Windows platform and Windows applications. It is only for few developers and OSS users who feel what you have told. Majority of people in Korea feel no need of another operating system. They feel Windows performance is far ahead of Linux. Yeah, for most games they run Windows is the answer for them anyway. And because of banks heavily rely on ActiveX, they would really really have horrible experience with any other OS including MacOSX. Yes, even for die-hard Mac users it is a painful experience to surf Korean websites on MacOSX because of ActiveX and stuff. So occasionally they need to run XP on VirtualBox or Parallel Desktop to surf alright. Linux? They would never think of it.
A new operating system that nobody would use? Fine..
Edited 2009-07-09 01:47 UTC
ActiveX is so dead they never even gave it a memorial. No one in their right mind is “banking” on ActiveX/COM. It was a horrendous technology, and I for one and glad to bid it a hearty goodbye!
Yeah, since MS made it not easy to auto-install ActiveX on users’ system with IE8, it might be dead soon. However, I saw that many of current sites in Korea recommended users to change the IE8 setting to allow auto-install!! Last time when MS decided to block pop-up window with IE7, they recommended people to enable pop-up window as well. People might just follow their instruction for easy going I assume. That’s what always happened at least in Korea.
There is nothing you mentioned that would preclude a movement to an existing open source operating system. Furthermore, you seem to be conflating Windows Server, Windows Desktops, along with MS SQL Server.
I’m really just sort of confused by #3. Are these web portal professionals not satisfied with windows the Server OS running ASP.Net or the performance of Browsers running on top of Windows Desktop OS.
AFAIK, most of decisions on platform and language are base on the brand name and familiarity(UI and things). And that decisions are made not by developers but by managers (mostly if not all). And again AFAIK, still most of developers are akin to Microsoft platform and hesitate adopting F/OSS.
I have even known a person from online whose father was a software developer in Korea and asked(? or commanded) her to use softwares from Microsoft only. So she has dropped using ICQ and instead started using MSN Messenger. It was more than 10 years ago though. Really weird.
Even I have been known many developers in Korea and have read several blog posts and articles written by Korean developers, never confronted any of those points mentioned by that poster. Instead except for some web developers, most of them were for Windows, its platforms and languages. Never really complained about the Microsoft’s products comparing to other OSes and its platforms. Mostly was the other way.
Interesting. The vast majority of websites outside of Korea are not based upon the Microsoft .Net platform, nor are they run on Microsoft servers. Is Tmax also promising a Server OS that would be 100% compatible with windows servers?
I wonder why Korea is so Microsoft heavy.
I do not really know though, based on many audiences’ (bad) impression on Timax’s OS, that one might be too horrible even for normal desktop use. I wonder if it could ever meet the requirements for a server OS ;p
Because Windows user base is nearly 95% or probably more (like ~98%) if include people use Windows alongside other OS, it is no surprise that developers assume that ActiveX would be fine I guess. Macintosh was not an option for personal computer from the beginning given that Apple distributor targeted for high-end publishing/graphic design markets at that time and so priced too high not affordable for average users. So ended up with IBM-compatibles all over the country I assume. Sad
From what I have seen of Koreans, they have a strong tendency to conform. Albeit this is rather common for most Asian peoples.
Before anyone gets their panties in an uproar, think over what I am saying carefully.
–The loon
One point not mentioned here (which I myself only came across recently) about the Internet in Korea is something called SEED.
Basically, SEED is a Windows-based system for secure financial transactions and this pretty much prevents you from doing the same kind of thing (as I try to do here, too often) under Linux (Mandriva 2009.1, KDE 4.2.x, Opera browser). And one thing I always try _not_ to use here is XP; it is almost impossible to run Windows without getting some kind of “infection”.
The problem is that SEED is a legislated feature; it can only be removed or annulled by an act of law. And because no-one else apparently uses this system, it has an isolating effect upon web-based transactions with the “outside world”. I think this was a sort of unexpected “side-effect”, but it’s there now and difficult to remove or get around under certain circumstances.
No not really. SEED is AFAIK just one of the cryptographic algorithm invented in Korea. But the problem is.. most of them implemented it on ActiveX to be used on the world wide web for like bank transactions and things.
On my quick research, SEED algorithm implementation is in OpenSSL as well. So it proves that SEED is not really Windows based.
This reminds me of two events in the past; there was the attempt by ‘Trumpet Software’ to create their own operating system that was supposed to be Windows compatible, then there was another attempt later on by a company who claimed their software was 100% compatible with Windows. As much as some here might thing it is the holy grail to create a Windows clone – in the long run it doesn’t suit anyone’s interests to perpetuate the same crap that causes so many problems.
At best if there is an operating system to develop I would like to see it based on *BSD and compatible with Windows provided not through a translation layer but a Carbon like transition framework – there is Mainsoft who sells key components of win32 natively re-implemented on *NIX which simply requires the software company to re-compile against mainsoft; so you have the independence to fix up Win32 flaws without having to create hacks and work around for win32 bugs which wine have to contend with.
With all that being said, it goes back to what I said many years ago that I’d like to see HP and Dell launch their own operating systems based around Linux, OpenSolaris or *BSD, then develop their own middleware stack ontop so that the move in terms of revenue generation is towards a balanced approach of software and hardware rather than strictly hardware as it exists today. I don’t think it will happen because it would require long term investments that will take more than a quarter to reap the rewards – something the wall street parasites (there is other name for them given the borderline fraud they engage in – or as PJ O’Rouke once said, when something becomes so complicated to understand one has to accept that it is fraud rather than a genuine investment instrument) expect to occur over night.
I really really feel shame on this topic.
I have heard about this about two or three days ago. and I was like Huh? another open source copy case? Then yesterday I searched a bit on google. As I am fluent in Korean, I read through several different articles and blogs. Some are from people who have attended the presentation thing.
They demonstrated only for few minutes and rest of the time was filled with lecture kind of boring nonsense thing. There was no user interaction except for few non technical reporters. It took about 10 minutes to load StarCraft, it was slow and they showed only replay not actual game play. They used XP to demonstrate so called their own office suite which seems exact copy of OpenOffice.org with modification on logo. Still it was dog-slow. It is believed to be a copy of OpenOffice.org because UI is identical, there was GPL license in one of its folder, and it does not support Korean’s favourite document format called .hwp. They also showed webkit based web browser. However, it was again run on XP. Their own media player was also slow and lag occasionally so they could not run for more than few minutes. They claimed even though they could not reach 100% compatibility with Windows binary yet, it would be reached before the release which is Oct or Nov. this year!
There was also someone claims it used kind of embedded Linux kernel under the hood.
Nothing new nothing fancy and suspicious. Mere five years are darn no enough time to develop a new OS from the ground up with Windows, Linux, Mac compatibility. Did I mention they also claimed compatibility with Mac binaries?
I foresee that it would be found out that they were just complete a**holes.
I smell black money here.
Well, there was this a few years ago, based on FreeDos originally:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E/OS
Which basically aimed to run binaries from practically every other operating system going.
It now seems to have been picked up simply as a FreeDos variant (a guess, since I do not speak Spanish):
http://meos.sourceforge.net/
So, this might be possible – no idea if the South Korean effort has taken this as a base, even conceptually.
Just remember, even though the method behind the creation of Snuppy was deemed to be dodgy and unethical in some respects, the animal itself was inependently established as being a genuine clone, and the effect has been replicated since.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snuppy
Don’t write the South Koreans of too quickly, or be too ready to suspect the worst…:-)!
Problem here was that they actually claimed that they implemented OS, office, web browser and all on their own. At least prior to the public demo. Later it revealed that they used WebKit for web browser. Still they was saying as if its such that all of their own effort to support web standard on its web browser. If they give credits where they due, I do not mind about this nor feel shame on this topic.
Have you read my comment that *actually* it revealed as it uses “embedded version of Linux kernel” (direct translation) ? And still they claim they use micro-kernel instead of monolithic kernel used in Linux and Windows (however, as any of you visit osnews.com would know that Windows’ kernel actually is a hybrid micro-ish kernel) They seems they do not really know what they are talking about sometimes.
I have already read some posts regarding this topic written by people who attended the public demo. So given that the sources are correct, it would very likely be copy of open source code without even mentioning they did(even though most of possible original source would be under GPL) or just a scam.. period.
Unfortunately, I don’t read Korean. I do not doubt what you say but on the other hand, my experience of how Korean mental processes and thought patterns translate into language indicates that Koreans do leave lots of things in quite an ambiguous state, in regards to terms of reference (I have had Korean relatives for 12 years now). It may be the case here, it’s a possibility, rather than that they ‘do not know what they are talking about’.
Personally, I would wait for any kind of independent evaluation.
In your favour though, it would not be the first time that Korean-produced software has used open-source elements without acknowledgement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_KMPlayer#Controversy
Abiding by formal laws in Korea is not culturally always seen as a positive trait (and after decades in the past of military and authoritarian government, this view is not entirely without justification), so I would also hang fire about calling this a scam, or something ‘illegal’. Again, I would want independent verification by an outside body.
At the moment, not many people in Korea are aware of open source software. In Korea, it is even hard to meet someone knows what Linux is or what F/OSS or Open Source is. So it is not to be seen as a cultural thing but as that OSS is not within their radar yet.
As I was born in Korea as a Korean and lived there for half my life (~15 years), and still contact various Koreans occasionally in Korea, in here(NZ) and on line. I am very confident in Korean and its culture arguably more than English and Western culture. Thank you if you have mentioned that you have Korean relatives as you are quite confident with Korean culture and/or mental processes. But sometimes I correct for spellings and grammars and such for Koreans in Korea or who had higher education in Korea. Thank you.
This could be marked up to their marketing department not knowing what their technical department is doing. It isn’t encouraging, though…
Sadly, AFAIK that was mentioned during the key presentation session by the head or one of the senior developer but the marketing department.
Fun part is that the head of Timax came up with telling story how they gone through and overcame many hurdles for years or something like that at the presentation session for OS. People came to see how it looks like and how it works but seen live demo for just few minutes (and it was horrible) after hours of talking they were mostly not interested
Bad impression. Bad..
For all we know, they flew in Robert Selezney.
I think we are a little too fast and too early to pass judgement on this. Let’s see what kind of product they will finally rollout. The truth will reveal itself. Remember the David software which is supposed to have Windows compatibility layer ?
If this OS can run 80% of Windows software I would consider it a success. After all for the exloding Netbook market, you do not need much. With Vista tanking on Netbook and MS Windows 7 uncertain future
Even if TMax Windows can’t run the all the Windows apps, you can always run it off a terminal server such as ThinServer
http://www.aikotech.com/thinserver.htm
I have found two links about TMax. They are in Korean so if you are able to read and understand, go ahead. Otherwise I will summarize in a sentence or two.
Link 1: http://unitalk.hellojob.com/won/link/?item_no=87115
Found out that TMax’s Probank and Proframe are copy and modification of (at least part of) Australian company FNS’s Bancs software. At the court, TMax was commanded to pay 1,010 million Korean won(divide by 1000 to get approx. USD) to FNS.
Link 2: http://itviewpoint.com/blog/50784
It is last year’s and I haven’t read whole article but that which caught my attention was in the 11th paragraph. My quick translation is as follows:
For the question “Have you discussed with hardware vendors like Intel?”, The head Mr. Ahn explained “There was no official confirmation work though, the most of the hardware vendors open up the technology(should say spec I think though), and because we are developing based upon the hardwares already on the market, we can develop without support”
Huh? if one develops OS based on the current hardwares, he/she can develop drivers without support from hardware vendors? I have never known that before. So *BSD, Haiku, ReactOS, SkyOS, SyllableOS and etc CAN support all of the hardwares on the market if they desire? I wonder if Mr. Ahn knows anything about OS and hardware support thing.
And one interesting post from one refers himself as a current TMax OS developer, says that the head commanded to support for Windows driver compatibility 2-3 months prior to the public presentation. H*ll.. So and after few months could we see an OS from scratch supports Windows applications and binary drivers and Linux/Mac applications? Interesting.
there’s a video available on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fOuELeArH0
and the official press release:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Tmax-1013937.html
and it appears many website are picking up the news (tomshardware, in french) … wait and see (and watch the videos)