Guest post by Windows 8 isn’t expected to be released until the end of 2012 and “new feature” details is still officially non-existent, but some of these recent rumours began to bear more weight since a slide was “officially leaked” on Microsoft-journal.spaces.live.com/blog.
This slide although has since been removed, but it can however still be seen on lmsfkitchen.Internally Windows 8 is dubbed “Windows.Next”.
Rumour has it Windows 8 will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. A totally new file system is mentioned. No details about this new file system is public yet, but we can can speculate on its origins. Microsoft’s R&D department has at any one time multiple new alternative operating systems research projects. One of them is the Singularity Project . This is the largest other os project within Microsoft. Would it be a leap to far to expect some fruit of this project to trickle down to win 8?
For me one of the most interesting new features rumoured is “push button reset”. This would allegedly allow you to reinstall Windows applications you bought from the up-and-coming Windows app store with push button ease. What’s most interesting is that this doesn’t only refer to restoring programs bought from Windows store but also other software. So in essence it implies a reinstall of Windows while maintaining all your personal files, applications and settings. This would be heaven sent for all PC technicians, DIYers and chronic upgraders.
Other possible features mentioned include facial recognition, proximity meter and accelerometer to adjust screen orientation and to automatically start or log off your PC depending on your movement, a Windows store, better graphics and, as usual, faster start-ups.
Remarks on the store include “getting applications they want, that they can feel confident in, that they can use on any Windows 8 device”. It’s not sure if confidence only refers to compatibility, but hopefully also security and might keep tabs on critical unpatched third party software.
Other rumours is that Microsoft is mulling 128 bit versions of Windows, while not that important to home users (yet) this would surely make the big Windows server managers very happy since 128bit machine won’t have the 1 terabyte maximum ram limit.
Another interesting feature rumoured is that desktop virtualisation may come standard with Windows 8.
Since when is 2^52 = 1TB ?
I thought that 2^52 ~ 10^15 while 1 tera = 10^12 ?
10 years later (yes, there where talks about windows 2000 64 bit), and we still work on 32 bit like in 1995 mainly because windows stayed away from 64 bit and they didn’t encouraged developers to release 64 bit versions of the apps. And they dream about 128 bit windows. What a joke!
Perhaps they are trying to learn from their mistake? (no, I don’t believe it either)
The article doesn’t say it, but I’m quite sure that this is about a 128 bit file system.
There is no 128 bit addressing CPU in existence, so it would be both impossible and pointless to make a 128 bit OS in the sense of 32 bit and 64 bit OSs (i.e. address space size).
128 bit FILE SYSTEM SUPPORT.
no one is even considering a need for 128 bit CPU support.
I would prefer if they reintroduced 2d gdi acceleration using the windows classic theme rather than faster startup, I only restart once a fortnight.
XP had it, why cant Win 7/8???
The classic theme on Windows 7 performs like a dog on my PC, and I have a GTX260. God only knows what its like if you have integrated Intel gfx.
Edited 2010-10-25 16:03 UTC
Windows 7 already has hardware accelerated GDI, it is up to the driver vendor to provide a WWDM 1.1 compliant driver which supports GDI acceleration. Why do you want to use classic theme? the classic theme disables all forms of hardware acceleration so there is no benefit to using it over using aero.
Classic is cleaner and thinner then Aero, and themes takes up a chunk of memory which could be better used. After a while, Aero is just too clownish. It looked good initially, but it’s gotten annoying.
I’d like to get a hardware accelerated classic theme, and I was surprised when I found out that wasn’t the case. Well, half surprised. The duality of MS makes itself know quite regularly.
Other than it looks better. Personal preference obviously, but I am talking about why I use it. I prefer how it looks, so I use it, so it would be nice if it was accelerated, though I haven’t noticed the sluggishness wd850 has. Works fine for me.
I know I’m in the minority. I can wish without expecting it to actually have a chance of happening
IMO Aero is worse that the XP fisher price look for real work.
I work on my PC and don’t expect it to look like a toy, additionally Aero gives me eye strain (so does Cleartype), hence I turn them both off an go back to my classic desktop.
As for GDI is already accelerated if you have a WDDM 1.1 driver, it only accelerates a few functions out of about 100+ that were accelerated in XP.
stop using a CRT and you will be fine.
Wrong. It’s on LCDs that Aero is worst, because its bad habit of putting white text on a shiny background is a nightmare as soon as you stop looking with the perfect vision angle ™. Even worse when reflections start to appear on those horrible shiny screens that took over the computer world some time ago.
I wish the guys who worked on Aero had learned some basic notions of optics first, the contrast notion in particular.
Edited 2010-10-27 20:32 UTC
About the same, since it’s not hardware accelerated.
you are either doing something wrong or are a liar.
The UI acceleration works great on my wife’s little netbook with an atom CPU and intel integrated graphics…. much better UI experience than XP.
You’re wrong. Hardware acceleration is disabled with the classic theme.
You do not need a 128 bit address space to have more than 1 Tb of RAM. In fact, if this limitation really exists in 64 bit versions of Windows, it is probably an artificial one.
I’m quite sure that it is about a 128 bit file system. There is currently no CPU or even architecture that can address 128 bits of RAM.
Probably, just like how certain versions of Windows Server are artificially limited, i.e. Server Standard to 32GB of RAM, Foundation to 8GB. They do that so they can upsell you to the next prohibitively expensive version.
2008 R2 can address up to 2TB of RAM, but that is just some internal limit. It has nothing to do with exhausting 64b of address space.
Even 48-bit addressing (ala, AMD64) will get you to 256TB.
Please note that the theoretical limit of AMD64 is 52-bit (so maximal amount of addressable physical memory is around 4 PB), not 48-bit. I heard about this 48 bit number several times, so I suppose that it’s a limitation of current AMD64 hardware, but I can guarantee you that it’s not the architectural limit.
(See AMD Manual 2, section 5.3 “Long-Mode Page Translation”, pages 128-129 in the november 2009 revision)
PS : I hope home computer won’t waste so much hardware resources that they require more than that amount of RAM anytime soon… And in the server market, I thought the current hype was around distributed operating systems with many low-powered nodes in big networks ?
Edited 2010-10-25 16:42 UTC
I’m putting together a system with 24 GB of RAM just because I can (my current system has 8 GB for the same reason) not because I should. If it was possible to put in 256 TB and I could afford it, I probably would do it and I’m sure I am not alone. It is fun to come up with enough things to fill all of that space, at least it is for me.
In my case at least, it isn’t ego-stroking that drives the desire to build the machine, it is just to play through the “what if” scenarios that constantly go through my head. :p
Yes, as far as I know, all current AMD64 hardware uses 48-bit addressing. It is cheaper to manufacture, and there is no need for more than that now.
I am guessing this 1TB thing is a misunderstanding about the current 2TB limit in Windows, and the fact that the address space is split in two parts (kernel/user). In fact, that does not lead to 1TB, but I am guessing that confusing those things is how this all got started.
Edited 2010-10-25 18:02 UTC
Seems like a lot of piffle aimed at partners about branding and trying to leverage ever more dosh out of users.
Stuff that, I can already get a Mac if so minded.
Assume we’re not supposed to be expecting anything to get excited over.
We have processors that support some 128-bit instructions, and new ones coming out will also support 256-bit instructions. But these are vector instructions, and all modern operating systems already provide the very tiny bit of support that they need (i.e. saving and restoring the XMM registers on context switch).
So what in the world are they talking about? If Intel and AMD are working on processors whose primary ALUs and/or address space support 128-bit words natively, it’s news to me. (And I’m technically an expert on CPU architecture.)
Conclusion: This is a silly rumor created and propagated by people who have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
But then again, I’m probably daft for even bothering to glance at the list of rumored new features.
Probably 128-bit file system. Considering the conversion to 64-bit is still in its infancy, it would be complete lunacy for Intel, AMD, or anyone else to even consider a fully 128-bit CPU, least of all for an increase in address space.
Most of your high end machines don’t even have 36-bits (64 GB) of addressable physical memory… it will be a LONG time before we have computers with a full 64-bits of addressable physical memory (that would be 1073741824 memory slots filled with 16 GB memory modules).
Long before that, we’ll have switched over completely to phase change memory.
True, when it first came out the general consensus by ‘geeks’ on the internet was that the 128bit reference was in regards to a file system given the rate of storage increasing at the need for a 128bit file system will come in high demand soon. There is also the issue of flash based storage and having a file system that is designed with that in mind so the advantages of the technology are utilised rather than the current situation of super imposing a disk paradigm on flash storage as we have today.
by 2012, I expect to be able to get a 500 GB SSD for 60 bucks.
With the reports that SSD prices will drop drastically this next year I think I will be buying a few.
128-bit is pointless because it is greater than the number of particles in the visible universe.
Hmm, a completely new filesystem… where have I heard that before? Seems it wasn’t so long ago… That’s right, that’s what Microsoft said about the brand new WinFS… which we never saw, nevermind that WinFS wasn’t actually revolution but merely an SQL layer on top of an NTFS base.
And push-button reset, which implies a system restore area on the disk somewhere. Wonderful. Just what we need, another area for Malware to infect as if System Restore isn’t hell enough already. Please please, let this one be only a rumor.
And about that app store? I don’t mind that, so long as I’m not tied to it. Hopefully Microsoft isn’t going to pull a fruit on us.
Well… lets see….
WinFS was suppose to allow a cloud of storage on the home network… and now we have WHS which… allows a cloud of storage on the home network. It is less ambitious than what WFS was suppose to be but it gets the same job done…. Now in reality we are talking about a LOW LEVEL file system to deal with the real world differences that exist between SSD and platter based storage. It is a real problem to solve for MS rather than a pie in the sky cool thing to par down to a separate product line. It will get done.
nah, you are too late. as NT3.51 was released they promised that NT4 will have object based file system. after not delivering, they changed promise to WinFS and so on.
MS always makes me laugh on this one. all serious promises always get cut out of release anyway.
It’d be refereshing if the trend from IE9 continues: improving the capabilities of the engine, without introducing eye-candy-only features that require relearning the interface from scratch for core functionality. Better capabilities, not shinier interfaces.
VA-POUR-WA-RE !
End of 2012, maybe those Mayan’s where on to something.
“So in essence it implies a reinstall of Windows while maintaining all your personal files, applications and settings. This would be heaven sent for all PC technicians, DIYers and chronic upgraders.”
Unbelievable that this is a “new feature”. I can easily reinstall Amiga OS on my 1987 Amiga 500, while keeping all my existing applications, personal files and settings.
Sure, it’ll be “new” on Windows – but only because of the stupid convoluted way Windows software was originally intended to be “installed” (probably deliberately done that way to prevent piracy). It is things like the stupid Windows registry, endless versions of .dll files and application files in 10 million locations that prevent easy application backup and recovery.
I bet that even this “new feature” will be designed in a painfully stupid way, forcing you to prove that you paid for each piece of software.
Edited 2010-10-25 18:39 UTC
FULL ACK. That’s the argument I’m always using when it comes to locales. My Amiga could switch the Workbench language from English to Swedish without a hitch, Windows still can’t do this in 2010. Whoever claims the opposite is advised to install Windows 7 in English and install the native language pack for his language. Then watch how all kinds of applications detect an English Windows and install in English. And how that migration assistant keep on failing due to the language mismatch of source and target operating system.
I absolutely agree here. I remember the days when my dad got a Windows95 PC to replace my trusty old Amiga. It was such a drawback when it comes to usability. The first thought that I had was: “Dude, why are PCs so difficult to use. Why can’t I just install an application by copying it onto the harddisk?!”
I will try to remember your words for the next advocacy argument =).
Adrian
I dunno, the level of market-speak buzzwords in these slides is at least mildly disappointing:
“Approach to Engagement”
“Realized Value”
“Machine-centric vs. User-centric”
“Goals for Differentiation”
About a billion variations of the word “experience”
Speaking as a product developer myself, it’s rather disheartening to see how marketing-driven Microsoft has become, apparently right to the core.
On the other hand, it’s a great way to say something without saying anything. I bet the software engineers at Microsoft roll their eyes at this stuff!
Here’s a Marketing phrase Id like to see: get rid of the cruft
Can Microsoft please develop some nice UI improvements and a really good app store before getting bogged down with WinFS again.
That way they will actually have something to release in 2012 that will improve our lives in some small way when they can WinFS.
Interesting that they start looking into relational-database technology when some modern web sites are going away from it.
IMO, the Explorer UI has seen some great improvements in Windows Vista and 7. For instace, a search box in every explorer window, and the use of checkboxes to select multiple files. These UI improvements have improved my life a small way. Backend improvements like WinFS will complement these, eg. by making search faster. Anything else specific you had in mind?
Can’t speak for the parent poster, but there are some basic Explorer UI tweaks/refinements I’ve been wishing for since Win95. Like a “resize window to fit contents” command*, and if I’m being really indulgent in my wishful thinking, a keyboard shortcut to go along with it.
Or a feature that’s been present in nearly every other GUI file manager ever created: a keyboard shortcut to create a new folder. Hell, IIRC even the old Win3.x Fileman app had that functionality.
*I don’t really like the way OS X has tried to extend that to every application, but I do think that “resize to fit” makes sense for a file manager.
Since Win7: Ctrl+Shift+N (thanks Google)
Seriously? It’s about time (and that’s one of the first compelling reasons I’ve heard to do the upgrade from XP).
how is a file system that is meant to work better for SSDs the same thing as WinFS?
Someone famous should assert 2TB ought to be enough for anybody
Edited 2010-10-26 00:57 UTC
Almost did that some posts ago, about 4 PB though.
They could start with the file system. NTFS whilst having some good features needs to be more fragmentation aware. One of Windows Achilles heals is the file system fragmenting under heavy use and once at 10% the OS falls over.
They could then also improve Windows registry to be more self cleaning so that when I uninstall a program or update one – the registry cleans out the relevant entries. It would also be nice to have a simpler install system where programs only have 2 locations to put their relevant files – Program Files or the User Local (for user specific files). Having 4 or 5 locations as at present and then programs not cleaning themselves out when they are updated or removed is annoying.
Main gripes with Win 7 myself – all the other new features meh – what ever (Head in the Cloud).
That msfkitchen links is down for me. Anyone able to mirror it? or repost the interesting bits here?
Same here, also 404. I guess some PR people contacted the site.
Google cache of the site:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2Hyz5ySuiUIJ:m…
…would be a proper separation of user profiles from the system similar to how it’s done in Linux.
Also, as an improvement, they could revert to the perfectly adequate XP-style network UI instead of the mess that debuted with Vista.
I actually like the new network and sharing center. it makes it much easier to see the information I need to know up front and if I need to mess with any of the settings, I can get at them on the left side of the window.
It’s the stupidest API ever. It contains an unlimited number of gotchas, especially for the GUI part.
No, I don’t want to use .NET. I need to make the lightest possible applications.
Nice thought and I can dream about that, but I wouldn’t count on it. There are just so many apps written to expect those bugs and gotchas that if you remove them you’d probably break at least 1/4 of all Windows apps if not more, not to mention pissing off the big corporate types with loads of shitty in-house software that hasn’t been updated in the past two decades.
They can offer Win32 as a layer on top of their really cool C-based GUI. Or they can run Win32 in a virtual machine.
start using QT then, .net is the way forward.
You mean the way forward for Microsoft.
As for the rest of computing .NET is definitely not the way forward. I can never envisage the majority of Linux / Unix developers dropping the current languages to develop using mono / c# uggh.
I can see Go gaining more appeal though.
I assumed a Windows environment.
I already use Qt (it’s Qt by the way, not QT; QT means Quicktime), but I don’t like it very much. It’s extremely bloated and it requires using tools that I don’t fancy.
.NET is the way forward? hahaha.
if you are developing for Windows it is the way forward.
As for your laughing… I think your opinion of .net is ridiculous.
it is probably one of the best frameworks around. Just because it is a Microsoft technology does not make it bad or evil or stupid.
Correction: it is one of the most bloated frameworks around. And it’s Windows only (Mono does not contain all the .net classes).
how is it bloated? You want bloated, use Java. the .net framework is not bloated in any way.