Ah, Microsoft’s Kinect. Now that the technology has been released into the wild, one thing becomes clear: hackers and programmers love it. It’s already been hacked to work on Linux and the Mac, and the first interesting hobby projects are starting to appear. Since Microsoft has already stated it’s selling Kinect at a profit, I’m going to make a bold statement: Microsoft is loving the hackery. Update: Turns out I was right – Microsoft has stated that Kinect was left open by design.
There are several things that lead me to conclude that Microsoft is actually quite pleased with the hacker and hobby community picking up Kinect in this manner to start hacking and playing with it. On their own they may not mean much, but put them all together like pieces in a puzzle, and it becomes hard to argue against it.
First, and foremost, Microsoft is not selling Kinect at a loss. “The first Kinect prototype cost Microsoft $30000 to build, but 1000 workers would eventually be involved in the project,” The New York Times wrote last month, “And now, hundreds of millions of dollars later, the company has a product it can sell for $150 a pop and still turn a profit, [Don Mattrick, the president of Microsoft’s interactive entertainment] says.”
This means that Microsoft doesn’t have to rely on game sales to subsidise the investment in the Kinect hardware. Sure, it would be nice if Kinect owners bought lots of games, but in the end, it doesn’t cost Microsoft a thing if those few hackers out there buy Kinect just for owning the hardware.
The second indication that Microsoft is loving the hackery is that Redmond’s aspirations with Kinect don’t end at the Xbox 360 alone. The company intends to put Kinect’s camera and voice recognition technology into everything – with computers and displays (including televisions) as the most obvious targets. I can see a future where Microsoft will simply license the technology – in true Redmond fashion – to manufacturers all over the world, so that Kinect technology becomes ubiquitous.
With this in mind, it makes sense to let hackers and hobbyists have a swing at playing with Kinect now, so that bright minds can show the world what Kinect is capable of. Basically – free marketing, but not for gamers. No, free marketing for device makers Microsoft wants to convince to integrate Kinect.
The third and last indication that Microsoft is okay with the hackery is a rather obvious and straightforward one: dear lord, Kinect is easy to hack. It was hacked and a free Linux driver made available within a few hours. Does that look like a thoroughly locked down device to you?
Put all this together, and it seems like Microsoft is taking a Windows Mobile approach to Kinect, i.e., sure, it condemned hacking of Windows Mobile, but it made it quite easy to do so, and never stopped any form of distribution of hacked ROMs. This is very good news for us fans of hackery, so let’s hope I’m not wrong. I’m incredibly curious to see what imaginative people can come up with using Kinect’s technology.
I would love to have Kinnect connected to my PC and have lot of games & apps in it
I think the Kinnect will be more interesting when 3D displays finally become good. You could interact in “real” 3D space with things, and that might change the way we use our computers.
That would definitely give me cause to buy a 3D monitor/TV. Right now, to me it’s a useless fad.
Now there’s an idea. To hell with Minority Report, it could make the UI from the Iron Man films a reality. It’s at least more appealing than the future envisioned here:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20050314l.jpg
to me, it’s not even working, so useless is kind of good
Every movie has to be released in 3D and now 3D TVs for one’s own home. I’ve yet to see any movie make real use of 3D. It’s always there as a gimic; does not advance the story, does not enhance realism. It’s a “look, we can film with two cameras” show and tell.
I’ve also not yet seen a 3D technology that works without binocular vision. If you have less than two perfectly functioning eyes, your not getting 3D.
The mass media and tv vendors can come talk to me again when 3D is not binocular limited and does something to actually enhance the content being viewed.
Kinect Hack Makes Microsoft Angry, Deny its Existence
http://www.pcworld.com/article/210496/kinect_hack_makes_microsoft_a…
If MS is happy now, it’s because they know they can’t stop the hacking community and see that they’re actually doing cool things with it.
They have to disapprove to ward off possible claims if someone like blows up his Kinect in the process.
Not to mention keeping investors and shareholders happy.
Just like antivirus companies who publicly denounce virus writing black hats as criminals, but within the company walls they are quite happy that the black hats are keeping them in business.
I would have replied that too, but^aEUR|
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20023455-52.html
“Microsoft reverses course, says Kinect left open by ‘design'”
Very mixed messages from Microsoft re: Kinnect
http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2010/11/19/microsoft-now-says-its-insp…
The story so far:
first:
second:
latest:
http://twitter.com/scifri/status/5722901688877056
Funny.
PS: None of these pronouncements actually contradict one another, but they still managed to sound like they have totally back-flipped.
Edited 2010-11-21 10:38 UTC
I realize this is difficult for your brain to grasp, but they were referring to actual anti-tampering to thwart product modifications, not implementing a driver. The driver is perhaps the least interesting part of the package.
He likely mentions the statements don’t contradict each other BECAUSE he understands them.
Why do people feel the need to go out of their way to insult anything and everything people say on the Internet? Just because they can?
I would have moded you down, but for some reason the system won’t let me.
Troll, go home.
That strikes me more as a knee-jerk reaction on Microsofts side. Probably someone thought it was a modification of the x360 kinect software. While I’m not so sure Microsoft actually makes money on this device (atleast not in the short run) I think they recognize the publicity that comes along with this will get more eyeballs on Kinetic in general which is of course great for them.
As a geek, I think it’s really cool and I hope we see some interesting/useful tools to tap into the capacity this device holds. The wii remote was hacked and there was a flurry of stuff playing around with it but this device is imo WAAAAY cooler and I’m really looking forward to seeing what people can come up with. Being interested in 3d I’m already seeing discussions of using it as a poor-man’s mocap device.
You mean like a statement from a Microsoft exec leaves you unsure? Nice! (Don Mattrick, the president of Microsoft’s interactive entertainmen)
RTFA for once….
Assuming you weren’t ironic, then no, any proclamation by any exec of any company regarding their own finances and products does NOT convince me. Especially when you come across stuff like this:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArticle.jht…
With this hugely expensive marketing campaign, again I have my doubts that that this device is making Microsoft any money (again, atleast in the short run), but I’m certain it increases Microsoft’s next gen console market share which is most likely it’s main purpose.
Well unless you are a stock holder, then you shouldn’t care…
Are you aware how small $259M is to a company the size of Microsoft or Google?
These are my thoughts also. This is free marketing (plus free research) for Microsoft so they must be loving it.
Edited 2010-11-20 00:58 UTC
Hi Thom,
It will not be Microsoft bringing this to tvs but it will be primesense. The hardware technology belongs to primesense an Israeli company and they still own it and all of the corresponding patents etc..
<——————————->
http://www.primesense.com/
PrimeSense^a"c supplies 3D-sensing technology to ‘Project Natal’ for Xbox 360
Ground-Breaking Optical Sensing and Recognition Technologies to Aid Gesture Control Platform. Read more!
http://www.primesense.com/?p=514
The PrimeSensor^a"c Reference Design is an end-to-end solution that enables a computer to perceive the world in three-dimensions and to translate these perceptions into a synchronized depth image, in the same way that humans do. The solution includes a sensor component, which observes the scene (users and their surroundings), and a perception component, or brain, which comprehends the user interaction within these surroundings.
<———————————>
In fact if you look at the primesense design, they use higher resolution cameras and their system can detect finger movement. It will be primesense that will add this tech to tvs and other devices, Microsoft have only bought rights to use the primesense reference design.
To also just further prove this to you:
<————————>
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft-Kinect-Teardown/4066/2
Step 11
This is a Prime Sense diagram explaining how their reference platform works. The Kinect is the first (and only) implementation of this platform.
One camera (and one IR transmitter) provide input for the depth map (rumored to be just 320×240), while the third camera detects the human visual spectrum at 640×480 resolution.
We have heard claims that the system can measure distance within 1cm of accuracy at two meters. While that’s great in concept, early reviews are showing that you don’t get anywhere near that accuracy in the real world^aEUR”yet.
<————————>
It would be so nice if you actually researched the technology first…
Yes it would be nice if you researched the technology first. The hardware was created by PrimeSense, but the people-tracking software was written by Microsoft. That’s a pretty significant part of Kinect (assuming you’re using it as a human input device), and recreating it would be a massive project.
What’s next, pretending to be the p.r. rep?
Why not just write an editorial with a proper headline?
LOL, too true. It’s like putting up an article about a rumor, and not ending the headline with a question mark.
Anyway, about the Kinect and PC connectivity, can you do anything really useful with it, or is it just for the ‘gee whiz’ factor at the moment?
You can do the same that Kinect + XBox360 does. Additionally you could use it in robotics to create manipulators, that don’t knock off things when reaching for them, at home….
I was thinking more as an end user, not as a dev.
My first thought was a computer+konect watching a TV+konect. The hard part would be getting it to use gestures to control the TV it was “watching”.
here’s what MS actually acquired very recently. This company produces much higher grade ranging chips:
http://canesta.com/
bnolsen declared…
Interesting. So what the true story may be is that Microsoft doesn’t care too much about the kinect v1 because they fully intend to release a kinect v2 using the Canesta chips which will be locked down and noncompatible with all the progress made with the v1 kinect. If they do this properly they would make it difficult enough to detect which chipset is in use or have multiple revisions of the hardware like the WiFi manufactures used to do…
Make it difficult enough to know what hardware will do what and people will lose interest in doing this type of thing rather quickly and blame the open source developers for not being able to keep up…
–bornagainpenguin
Nah, they just want the 44 patents from canesta. If anyone tries to make money off using the kinect MS will sue them into oblivion. It’s possible MS may take the hobbyist ideas and deploy those themselves with the patent umbrella as protection.
And you’ve got to give them a lot of credit here. Indirect sensing technology is going to be HUGE. Whoever controls the patents has an advantage.
It would be lovely if the hacking of devices was not only “not hated”, but encouraged by companies such as Microsoft, Sony, Apple, Nintendo, etc, etc.
But that’s just a geek dream, I guess.
Unfortunately they have to cover their own backsides legally.
If they encouraged people to hack stuff and they electricuted themselves or burn down their house … Microsoft/Apple/Nvidia/HTC/<insert tech company> would be exposing themselves potentially to culpability.
I think the “cover our backsides” claims are overstated. We can’t open our hardware up else we’ll get flooded with support calls. Our user experience will suffer. BS. A company can find a way to do it if they have even minimal interest.
I submit Nokia. I can add a non-Nokia repository but I have to add it. I have to click “ok, download this and add it” or go in by hand and enter the three pieces of information. When I install a non-Nokia program package, I get a warning; “this program was not produced by Nokia and may cause damage to your device”. I can still install it but I’m very opt-in to accepting the non-Nokia code. If I decide I want full access to the device, I just go into the list of available programs and install “Rootsh”; doesn’t matter the OS version, doesn’t matter the hardware version. Enabling root access should be an easy opt-in not this “jailbreak” drama that goes on with Iphones and MotorolaAndroid, ATTAndroid and all the other vendor trashed Android installs.
It would really be easy for a company to make it clear that they supported hacking. “here’s our produce, show us what you can make it do that we didn’t think of.” Manual opt-in methods work as do signage which. “I installed this program and it broke my phone” – ‘We are very sad to hear that but you also had to click through several warnings and enable your phone’s ability to install that program.”
The protests about overwhelmed support staff and call centers and impending legal downfall of civilization as we know are overstated BS.
The warning is on the nokia phone is there to cover their backsides, you broke your phone == nokia won’t fix it for you. It cost them money to support their phones and its software. So they won’t support 3rd party apps … you are on your own … doesn’t mean they are supporting hacking a device … they are turning a blind eye. Which is a huge difference.
Nice one for invalidating your own arguement.
Edited 2010-11-23 11:04 UTC
They placed a “this is third party software” warning on the phone then threw a “hack our phone” conference handing out free developer units and encouraging a an OSS community. The N800, N810 and N900 where specked out for the Maemo hacker community; N900’s sales actually suffered because it was too hacky a device for general users. Nokia made a conscious and public effort to release more of Maemo under open source licenses with each version.
I’d think “turning a blind eye” would be more like Apple and the Hackintosh folks; they denounce it publicly and go after any business involved but so far have chosen not to go after individual home users.
Maybe the public perception is different from the internal message given to staff but somehow I suspect not.
Microsoft’s investment in Kinect has basically nothing to do with the hardware itself — Kinnect is based on a reference design that was already built — Microsoft just licensed it.
The Kinect “magic” if you will, is the software that takes raw camera and depth-sensor input and maps it into a skeleton structure that is easy to deal with for devs, in it’s ability to deal with background noise, in its ability to infer certain things when the data is not complete and in the facial/body recognition, among other things.
Microsoft will very likely be bringing this technology to PCs — the only thing stopping them now is that the PC is a “6-inch experience” while the TV/Console is a “6-foot experience” — there’s simply not as much you can do at short range without re-jiggering the software (for example, Kinnect at 6-feet can’t distinguish fingers, so it doesn’t — while this would be a necessity for any up-close interaction) and possibly the hardware (to give it more focus close up).
I don’t doubt, though, that Microsoft may release an official PC driver for Windows Media Center applications relatively soon with all the magic intact.
I know I am going to be voted down numerous times but please people, learn to read! We’ve seen that stupid “Kinect” word dozens and dozens of times; What’s its number of occurrences in the news item? Yet, some write it as “Kinnect”. What’s the problem with the double “n” thing? OK, the word is weird (I can only assume those who came up with the name were trying to make a reference to “kinetic”), but “iPhone” is even more strange and it never stopped people from capitalizing the second letter.
I would bet the open source community will have way cooler things done with it faster than the game industry.
Yeah, because the best games come out in the open source community first. Oh, wait…
The open source folk will explore what the hardware can be made to do. The game developers will cherry-pick demonstrated ideas they like best.
Okay, so Microsoft may have made it easy to use the interface to their Kinect hardware without having to tamper with the hardware itself – e.g. no funny business to use it, as say with Windows-only Printers and Modems.
And Microsoft seems to be happy b/c they are making a profit on each sale. Though the question is why are they making a profit? Were they able to find the lowest priced hardware that could turn out a product that was just good enough to get people hooked, perhaps needing replacement every year or two? Or were they able to get the costs down to a profitable level? Or did they sell advertisers on the ability to tell them who was in the room watching (or not) the TV?
So perhaps the reason it is profitable is not b/c of games, but b/c of the advertising dollars it brings in. Thus, they are hoping people will put it on their Windows PCs where drivers will then expand the audience to include the PCs as well. Sure, they lose out (for now) on the Linux market, and perhaps the Mac market too (until they push out a Mac driver to do what they do on Windows). But they think that market is small enough that they can still sell the advertising – and thus make money. Perhaps even their advertising contracts include a per-device sold fee too.
Sure, there’s a lot of conjecture there. But if you think I’m silly, then you should just research what Microsoft and its execs have said about using the Kinect for advertising.
Privacy beware.