Guest post by “At the Tizen conference this week in San Francisco, Intel showed off an Intel Ultrabook running their next-generation Tizen 3.0 platform that’s using a shell/desktop derived from GNOME 3.x.”
“At the Tizen conference this week in San Francisco, Intel showed off an Intel Ultrabook running their next-generation Tizen 3.0 platform that’s using a shell/desktop derived from GNOME 3.x.”
Is it possible that gtk actually gets worse with every release? Maybe it is my code that is faulty but i have to do all kinds of tweaks to my software even for point releases and memory usage seems to go up as well along with gtk version numbering.
It is probably my fault in the first place, but i have given up and started migrating all of it to Qt and interfacebuilder is such an very nice piece of software so it is not such a painful migration at least.
Nah, you are prolly are a GTK n00b.
If you really aren’t locked into one DE, and if you are switching from gnome to QT sounds like you aren’t, you should consider just making your app in HTML5 using a webkit widget and exposing the os features you need via javascript, ala phonegap.
Your app will look nice, be faster (really) and be 10x more portable.
Actually it will run slow as molasses.
Have you used a web browser in the last few years? Give me a break. It is crazy how slow to load and respond many simple desktop apps are. Unless you are doing something very graphically intense (like a game) you can get 100% adequate performance with way less effort using html5. It will definitely be faster to load and use less memory than a gtk app.
Edited 2013-05-29 05:21 UTC
I think you are confused as to what exactly makes web browsers sometimes run faster and use less memory.
For a simple example, the Gnome calculator weights 8.4 MB, whereas merely opening a new tab in Firefox without doing anything in it costs 11 MB. With this in mind, I strongly doubt that you can make a calculator web app which weights less than the Gnome one.
Same with performance, it really depends on if you are dealing with crappy coders and/or use an OS that has a poor file management performance. Most of my basic apps show up in about a tenth of a second, which is already a lot but far from being unacceptable.
Edited 2013-05-29 06:10 UTC
No. I can’t wait until this stupid HTML everywhere fad is over. Use web tools for the web.
Every day, and jump of joy every time I get assigned a server side or desktop based project instead of the typical “cram a desktop application into a browser thingie”.
The year of the Linux desktop may be closer of what we think.
Yeah, that year might also be the eyar of the android desktop…
(Though I suspect Linux can do what most people use computers for… but there is no point in changing unless there is some real pain that will be avoided by migrating (especially as windows comes installed by default). That’s a tough sell.)
no no, not desktop. mobile phone with touch UI
Why is Intel going with GTK when every other non-iOS, non-Android, non-MS mobile OS is supporting Qt as a primary (or at least secondary) officially supported toolkit? Qt is even getting iOS and Android ports in Qt 5.1 and will only get better from that point forward.
Why don’t they support Plasma Active which is all but ready for this market? Especially once KDE makes the jump to the KDE 5 ecosystem.
Intel makes great hardware, but they can’t seem to get software right, ever. Their Linux drivers are okay I guess, but what else do they ever call correctly in the software department?
There is some effort to bring Qt to Tizen.
Why not GTK?
GTK is a great toolkit to work with.
Because GTK is unfathomable, while Qt is easy?
If you really find GTK+ to be unfathomable, remind me never to hire you as a coder. It’s overly verbose and a bit convoluted, but by no means unfathomable.
Mmm, please, let me reword:
Because it is extremely wordy and convoluted while Qt is easy?
Edited 2013-05-28 13:15 UTC
“extremely wordy” is not a valid reason to discard a toolkit, I could write your statement as “it makes code easier to read”, now convoluted? how so?.
Yes it is. If there is more developer friction in getting up and running vs another technology, its a legitimate complaint.
Qt may not be perfect, but you can be plenty more expressive using Qt than you can using GTK.
You are confusing the GNOME project with GTK, is not the same.
If you put GTK in front of your average Windows or Mac developer who has no notion of Linux GUI politics they’re going to laugh in your face at the prospect of using it, and then have the blood drain out of their face as they realise you are serious.
I would never hire anyone who thought it was a good idea to use it. Anyone who does has too much Linux desktop history about them and I think that’s the mistake Intel have made here.
Edited 2013-05-29 07:24 UTC
.
Edited 2013-05-28 11:46 UTC
Because they have made a decision base on technical and business merits to use GTK just like how those other vendors did when they chose QT.
Not everyone has to use QT, ya know.
Edited 2013-05-28 04:50 UTC
Their developer tools?
As for hardware don’t get me started on their GPUs.
Edited 2013-05-28 06:29 UTC
Intel isn’t really in charge of Tizen. Samsung is. Its basically Bada 3.0. Meego had great QT support, why is it completely gone, and has to be added back in? Because Tizen has very little to do with Meego, its Bada 3.0 which didn’t have very good support for QT.
And I thought the whole point of using Tizen was to take advantage of that super efficient Enlightenment toolkit for native development and HTML5 for less performance critical apps.
+1.
Anyone trying enlightenment will see their strength. Extensive control panel and efficient mem usage. Just not too elegant for my taste. But then, thats better with each day passing.
Edited 2013-05-28 16:23 UTC
Why do I want it? Looks like Intel is repeating the Moblin mistake. Ultrabooks run any os laptops do, being x86 and all. So why would I, as a user, go with Tizen even if I did want Linux? Why wouldn’t I go with Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, or anything else much better supported that I’m likely to find packages for? Since it looks like Intel’s moving away from Tizen’s original goals and putting GNOME 3 in there, it’s not as if it’s going to run much lighter on resources than anything else based on that DE. What’s the point of it?
Games https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Game_development
What is the advantage over Android, iOS and Windows systems related to games?
Tizen will be cross-platform: phones, tablets, PCs, TVs, cars, …
Android and Windows are already there.
So what is the advantage again over existing OS?
Edited 2013-05-29 14:32 UTC
After the Microsoft monopoly, most companies would like to avoid a Google monopoly: http://automotive.linuxfoundation.org/
I am fully aware that Linux distributions are being used in the automobile industries and I can assure you that in Germany many are quite happy with the Google monopoly as you put it.
While others are using Qt/C++ directly on top of their hardware or in-house developed distributions.
Having a logo on that site does not mean that they are actively using a Tizen distribution on their cars.
Google doesn’t have a monopoly yet, thank God. You have to be idiotic to be happy with a monopoly btw. Are you sure you know what you’re talking about ? A monopoly is illegal under US/EU laws …
Edited 2013-05-29 19:52 UTC
You are the one that raised the ghost of monopoly and are yet to present a single reason why in the current market situation of operating systems anyone would pick Tizen over other Linux distributions or existing market leaders.
I gave you 2 reasons but you seem to be deaf.
Regarding Google’s monopoly: ^aEURoeWe don^aEURTMt like the fact that one part of the value chain of our business is tightly controlled,^aEUR Carlos Domingo, director of product development at Telefonica^aEURTMs digital unit, said in an interview. ^aEURoeIn the case of the emerging countries it^aEURTMs worse, because it becomes a monopoly by Google.^aEUR http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-04/telefonica-bids-to-own-the…
Some companies are not blind, luckily.
Edited 2013-05-30 02:23 UTC
No you did not, because none of those reasons is a business reason why a company will pick Tizen over any other Linux distribution.
The same goes to the consumers, everyone will pick phones based on design or what they can share with their friends, not based in ideologies.
What Telefonica fears is becoming a pipe company without control over their customers.
In most European countries people buy their phones free from the operator, so it doesn’t matter what the operator thinks. We love our operator freedom and won’t give up our pre-pay.
In the long run they will become information pipes.
Nice digression. Google’s monopoly was the subject iirc. Anyway, this is my last post. Have a nice day.
You were the one that brought up the subject.
I clearly mentioned three operating systems in my first post.
Then you mentioned Tizen is good in areas where Android and Windows are already used, among other Linux distributions that I failed to mention actually.
If you cannot deal with the fact that Android is no monopoly by what the law defines as such, that is your problem not mine.
By the same rule, of course mobile operators are pissed off by losing control to consumers via iOS and Android devices. Again their problem, not mine. Still no monopoly by what the law defines as such.
Also my last post. I am happy we agree to disagree.
When making any sort of pragmatic argument, the ideological refuse to accept its merit and usually try to change the focus.
It is very frustrating.
He made the mistake of commenting on an unrelated manner which allowed you to claim he was changing the subject while you ignored the first part where he was on topic.
The unanswered question remains, why would anyone choose Tizen over the other Linux distros?
The only reasons I can think of:
You want to stay close to Samsung’s product line.
Personal preference.
You think it will be more popular in the mobile sector than the others focusing there ( jolla, firefox, ubuntu).
All you needed to do was to pick one of those and this conversation would have been a lot more productive of a discussion.
I don’t know about the US but a monopoly is not illegal under EU law. There are just certain laws to prevent a monopoly from being abused.
It seems you don’t know what you’re talking about – monopolies are not illegal (and many are natural), abuses of monopolies are.