At its developers conference this afternoon, Google announced two pieces of software for the smart home and the broader collection of connected devices around us, increasingly known as the internet of things. Those two pieces are Brillo, an operating system, and Weave, a common language for devices to talk to one another. And importantly, Weave doesn’t have to run on Brillo – so appliance manufacturers can theoretically add it on to their existing products.
I just can’t get excited about an internet-connected blender.
(Despicable)Google knowing how much milk we have in our fridge and how many lights we have on. (Despicable)Google knowing what time you go to sleep, when you wake up, when you take a dump. (Despicable)Google knowing how many hours of TV you watch, how many blinds you have, what temperature you keep each of your rooms at, when you pay your gas or electricity bill. It’s bluddy endless what (Despicable)Google could know. No thanks!
The smart home concept is a wonderful thing, but not in the hands of a third party like (Despicable)Google or anyone else for that matter. There is no need for any of these thing to be internet aware especially not (Despicable)Google aware!
Why do I feel Google themselves will the be the first party that will completely ignore this new protocol?
I mean, can we expect Google Wear to use it? No?
The IoT concept seems like a solution looking for a problem.
Most devices in my home either need some manual intervention on use (refills etc), or can already be remote controlled without any more smarts added.
the rest don’t need a net presence what so stinking ever…
The supporters of ‘Big Data’ must be wetting themselves with anticipation of the time they get their hands on all this IOT Data.
Before long, your googlephone will go ding and say,
‘I’m sorry Dave, you can’t leave home right now you have left the light in you basement on’.
OR
“Mr Jones, we notice that you are very frugal with your use of electricity. All this only haveing one light on in your house at a time and keeping the heating down to 60f even in winter. This is not good consumerism and consumption. Plus we know you have a fridge but we can’t get any readings from it. As a result, all your prices per unit of Electricity and Gas are now going to double. Have a nice day, PG&E”
I am a certified Social Media ‘Luddite’. No Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc for me. Well, not having a personal smartphone goes a long way to avoid them.
But, I have to wonder how long it will be before ‘Big Data’ notices this and that I pay for almost everything I buy in a shop in cash. What will it do to get me to join the masses?
It’s simple really. It’s that they make very poor phones. Reception sucks, interacting with anything having to do with the phone is a pain in the ass. Sure, they’re great PDAs, but phones? They’re barely good enough to even qualify.
Internet-connected blender? Useless>
Internet connected (Or, even, just IP-connected) lighting? Pretty darn cool.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/in-living-color-ars-reviews-…
Internet-connected coffee pot? Could be useful. Prep it for coffee, send it a message at the right time, have a pot of coffee waiting for you.
Internet connected thermostat? VERY USEFUL. People I know that have the Nest (now owned by Google) really like it. Google has owned Nest for a while now, and they aren’t using it to collect data.
Some things can be very useful when IP capabilities are added. Not everything, but it can improve lots of household appliances, when done right.
Drumhellar,
I agree, some home automation can be pretty darned useful when things become inter-networked. With that said, I’d be strongly opposed with these things being in the “google cloud” (or apple or MS, etc). I just find it regrettable that these companies are evolving “cloud computing” into centralized subscription services rather than P2P technologies that we control ourselves. The technology is designed to make us dependent.
You’re absolutely right and it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. At the end of the day, it’s all about these companies getting a tighter grip on our wallets. Profit is always going to be the motivating factor because that’s all companies and people care about. That’s one of the main reasons the world we’re living in now isn’t 1000x better/more awesome.
I totally agree. I always find it annoying that every data that belongs to me is stored in the cloud without need.
No one can tell me, that companies doing this do not have a vital interest in my data.
Todays Internet routers are smart enough to run smart home application I can access from anywhere in the world. I do not need to go through (Google|MS|Apple)’s cloud.
Same with these “fitness trackers”: These can as well send their data to my always on router where I can fetch it. No need to store it in the cloud.
But as a German satire show stated: We complain about NSA, BND (German Secret Service) and their spying. But we (speeking general) give aways a lot of data to the commercials Secret Services voluntary.
Internet connected? Yes. Might be useful in this or that situation.
Google-connected? By no way.
Are you 100% sure about that? Google is in the information business; the more they know about you, the more ads they can throw at you, and the more money they make off of you. Google’s mission is to know everything they possibly can about their users so they can use that information to their advantage. Can you cite any references explicitly stating Google doesn’t collect data from Nest devices? And I don’t mean a “promise” from Google, they break those daily.
Umm, no, sorry, you better watch this film from 42m59s to 44m: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8supIUj6c&feature=youtu.be&t=2579
Or better yet watch the whole thing afterwards because it’s a really great talk!
Are you sure you meant to reply to me? You and I seem to be in agreement that Google is most definitely using (and possibly selling) data acquired via Nest.
pysiak,
Thank you for the video. The “bullshit tree” illustration at 1H mark had me cracking up
I only watched the second half so far. But wow, I’ve never seen anyone who mirrors my views as much as this guy.
An internet connected blender is only useless because it doesn’t contain everything it needs to be useful. It needs the ingredients to do something with. If it were more specialized, like a smoothie blender, with a refrigerated hopper of fruit, yogurt, ice, juice, then it makes sense to have it connected to the internet. On your phone, you see a drink you like on pintrest or whatever and just click “blend” and Boom its done. Blended with the right ingredients at the right speed to accurately reproduce that drink.
Now, is that something that everyone needs? ( this would probably be a $2000 blender). Probably not. Maybe more of a restaurant automation thing. But it would be cool.
Basically, you can only internet something that doesn’t need human intervention every time it runs. So thermostat, lighting ok. Blenders or waffle irons, no not right now as they currently exist.
> they aren’t using it to collect data.
How do you know?
Well, at the moment, Nest upper management hasn’t changed since the purchase, their servers are separate, headquarters are separate, their privacy policy says they don’t, and those that have hacked the Nest and analyzed the traffic have found no evidence.
I suppose it’s technically possible that Nest is sending data to Google despite emphatic claims to the contrary, but I tend not to believe things without actual, you know, evidence.
“Google will soon have access to user data stored on thermostats built by Nest Labs. This move was inevitable following Google^aEURTMs acquisition of Nest Labs back in January for $3.2 billion.”
http://www.dailytech.com/Nest+Labs+to+Start+Sharing+Data+from+Therm…
This was from last year. You were saying?
Well, yeah, when you use Google Now with your Nest, Google learns the data that you are already volunteering by virtue of using Google Now.
It’s the Google Now app collecting data, as it always did. It has nothing to do with using Nest, and everything to do with using Google Now.
You can believe that if you want. I’m no conspiracy theorist but Google is Google, and for them not to collect and use your Nest data would go against their very nature. And I’m not picking on Google; I’d have the same concerns if it were Microsoft or Apple who had bought Nest.
Every article I see when I search Google for “nest thermostat privacy” (and I’m searching in a private session on a proxy so no search bubble) presents informed speculation, and in some cases direct evidence, of privacy concerns both about the Google acquisition and about the hardware itself. It has a wide-open backdoor, so even if you have full faith in Google’s and Nest’s promises to not use your data, someone else could easily mine it.
I still believe, based on Google’s past actions and Nest’s highly ambiguous and sometimes contradicting statements about your data privacy (“we’re not sharing any data/we’re only sharing anonymized data”…which is it??), that it’s a clear and open window into your daily life way beyond Google Now alone. Whether you use the added Google features or just use the Nest standalone, you’re giving up your privacy; you may as well live in a glass house.
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/01/what-google-can-really-do-w…
(warning: PDF) https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-14/materials/us-14-Jin-Smart-Nest-T…
http://securitywatch.pcmag.com/hacking/326209-turning-a-nest-smart-…
Their privacy policy is pretty clear – they record data via the web interface, and from the device, is only shared in either in an aggregate form, or anonymized, and they do not sell it for marketing or sales purposes of non-Nest products/services, unless you opt-in.
You can also at any time delete the data they’ve collected.
I’m curious, though, as to your references about Google’s past actions – have they violated their privacy policies in the past? I looked, but haven’t been able to find anything about that. Nest explicitly says that they don’t share usage information with Google, other than what is necessary to make the service work (For example, Geofencing with Google Now to turn on the heat when you’re on your way home)
At the moment, Nest still operates as a separate company – separate management, separate headquarters, separate servers.
And, as for hackability, well, if they’re already inside your home and able to plug in to your Nest without your knowledge, you’ve already lost.
http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/13/google-voice-privacy-policy/
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/02/technology/google-ema…
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2012/08/google-will-p…
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/03/ftc-charges-d…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-01-17/google-violated-p…
You may feel you can dismiss the articles from news agencies, as they have an incentive to report scandals, but the FTC has no such incentive; they exist to protect the people from companies like Google. The fact that the FTC had to step in and stop Google not once but twice for severe privacy violations is telling. And that’s just in the United States, they have also faced sanctions in the EU.
This IoT isn’t a solution looking for a problem. It’s not a solution; it is the problem. People don’t need and the majority of the market don’t even want “smart” home appliances. No one wants our appliances reporting what we eat, when we eat it, what we watch on tv, and if we’re even paying attention to it. Those are enough of a physical security & privacy problems as it is without the absolutely abysmal software security and reliability records consumer grade embedded devices have. We don’t want our refrigerator to suddenly have a date roll over glitch and have our food spoil or some terrorist sympathizer setting the tv to display nightmarish jihadist videos.
I think people are already voting with their wallets on this one. Not too many people want internet connected TVs let alone refrigerators, washing machines, driers, thermostats, light bulbs… It seems to me it’s largely big names trying to force stuff on a market that’s currently indifferent at best, hostile at worst. The frightening thing is it could come to the point where it becomes impossible to get anything but “smart” devices because the manufacturers just refuses to make anything else. It’s certainly the trend with those 4k TVs.
Is it just me or are there other people who sit so much during the day that they actually enjoy getting up to do some small thing around the house?
I don’t have much interest in Google’s smart home implementation since it will probably just be another way for them to scrape customer information, but don’t knock smart homes. I picked up an Amazon Echo on impulse, since I figured at the very least I would wind up with a decent Bluetooth speaker even if everything else was useless. While I was playing around with it and thinking it would be kind of fun to use it to control lighting, thermostats and security cameras for the home as kind of a dumb pet project, it occurred to me that devices like this are absolutely wonderful for people with a physical disability. The majority should probably take the opportunity to get off their lazy asses once in a while (myself included), but there’s huge potential in smart homes.
I think it is important to make the distinction between automation and IoT.
Personally, i see the benefit of some automation in the house, and even possibly connecting some of it to the internet. But IoT as a concept is just asking for trouble.
OMG!!! I need to update the firmware on my light switches, because someone is using them to DDoS my coffee machine!!! HALP!!!1eleven
I will probably be moving to a new place soon, and i will automate some things. I will do it using arduinos and some central computing like an rpi or some simple, small computer. It will not be in charge, but it will be able to perform actions and report things.
I am looking at automating HVAC/heating, lighting, door locks, power management, etc
On top of that, i want an integrated security / alarm system. I’ll probably unlock my doors with RFID.
Do i want to connect this to the internet? Yes, and no.
Yes, privately, over ssh. No, as in NO WAY this will EVER be connected to some cloud service.
I want to be able to lock/unlock my doors, turn on/off the heating, lighting, have a look inside the place, etc etc. I DON’T want anyone else to have any kind of connection to that … EVER.
I don’t understand IoT. Maybe i’m just too old. But if that’s the case … then being too old for this shit ain’t half bad.
When the day comes that my fridge tells me to do something, or orders something for itself, i will set fire to it.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE.
Open software and open hardware is the only way to do it with no wireless. Then and only then can you be sure of your privacy.
All you need is a small master server(raspi perhaps) running behind a firewall that queries all your sensors and lights every pass it does and stores that info in memory. Then other computers, phones, etc, register with the master server for updates or to send commands. The master validates them and then does its stuff. Everything runs over RS485 and Ethernet, no wireless.
If you want to operate things over the net, then you can open the firewall to that server and ssh in with the correct credentials.
Putting sensors and such directly on the net is sheer madness!
Heheh! Look for my totally standard, secure, private server and sensors, coming soon.
I love standards, you get to make new ones every day
Exactly the way i plan on doing it, except that the raspi (or equivalent) will not be in charge perse. The system will be autonomous, but the raspi can send commands to the system.
I agree that open standards and open hardware are the way to do it. This way, i am not locked in by any vendor, and if any part dies, it will be easy to replace it with the same, or an improved version from hundreds of different vendors. All i have to do is go on ebay and take my pick.
And yes, connecting sensors, switches, actuators, etc etc straight to the internet is just the dumbest idea ever.
The hardware used for this has very little resources. Most of the time, there is no memory protection, or even memory management. It’s very hard to secure this kind of device. The manufacturers don’t seem to care.
This is just asking for trouble, really.
If you are going to connect something straight to the internet, you’d better make sure it is secure. ESPECIALLY if it is something that controls something in your house.
And, even aside from all of the technical issues, i don’t understand WHY anyone should do this? I don’t see the point … well for the end user anyway. The companies selling you this stuff just want data to sell.
People don’t seem to understand that if they run their own infrastructure at home, it will also be accessible on the internet. People nowadays seem to think that the only way to access something from “anywhere” is to use the cloud …
Having my emails stored in the cloud is one thing.
Having them know when i come home, when i have dinner, when i go to sleep, wake up, wash myself, what i buy, when i buy it, what i like to eat, if i work out, when i work out, what i watch on tv, etc etc … NO THANKS.
Is there some draft of API description of WEAVE available?
There is a diagram in the verge article that makes Weave look like JSON.
So it’s not like they’re making a protocol out of whole cloth.
Yes, it’s json (and my guess is, that it’s over http). But I am more interested in things such as ontology they plan to use.
https://xkcd.com/927/?cmpid=pscau
This is what Google just did.
The great thing about standards are there a so many of them