Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.
We don’t think twice about updating to new operating systems releases on smartphones of tablets, but on PCs, we always get really uppity about it. I think it’s pretty irresponsible to continue using outdated software that isn’t receiving security updates anymore (is Windows 7 in that category yet?), but at the same time, it is your machine, and if you want to run insecure software – well, be my guest.
Still, I hope every single Windows installation moves to Windows 10 soon, especially those still using dreadful Windows XP.
No.
actually Yes. Look at Windows 7 SP1’s support cycle, mainstream support ended in January (2015). Non SP in 2013.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/lifecycle
No,
Windows 7 will get security updates through 14 January 2020. Perhaps you need a better pair of glasses.
As for non-security updates – I don’t freaking care. Microsoft as of recently has stopped providing any meaningful non-security updates other than telemetry (spy on me) “features”.
And this obsession with spy-on-me/welcome-big-brother-into-your-life OS must stop.
As for the average Joe Windows 10 offers zero notable features other than barely functional/ugly looking Metro apps. At the same time if totally f*cks up any resemblance of UI coherence.
* Support for Windows 7 RTM without service packs ended on 9 April 2013. Be sure to install Windows 7 Service Pack 1 today to continue to receive support and updates.
Seems perfectly clear to me. Maybe you should read more than the headline before attacking the other person?
Feel free to cling on to Win7. That is your prerogative. When we have this discussion in a couple of years, you’ll be analogous to those clinging to XP today.
Oh for… Yes, it’s true, Windows is not providing updates for Windows 7 release 0.0.0. Oh the horrors.
For those who are actually running SP1 (ie, sane people), Windows 7 will continue to receive security updates, knowledge-base support and paid support.
Also, enterprises with volume contracts will still get support.
All this is spelled out in
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifepolicy
well, at least, for those who don’t cherry pick to prove their point.
Enterprise isn’t relevant to this. If you are using an enterprise licence on your system, the decision to upgrade to win10 / install security updates is taken out of your hands and determined by the sysadmin.
I *am* the sysadmin, thanks.
Why would you hope every single Windows installation moves to Windows 10 soon?
You mentioned Windows 7, but what about Windows 8.1 (which is newer).
Suppose I’ve tried the tablet experience in Windows 10 and it slows me significantly down compared to the experience in 8.1.
If my SP3 someday woke up with Windows 10 installed without my intention, I’d be super pissed!! I don’t use my Surface as a toy. To me, it’s an appliance to get my work done.
If you want to give all your data to Microsoft – the US, NSA helper company – go ahead and upgrade. There is so much tracking, recording, profiling and the rest in Windows 10 which isn’t in Windows 7 or 8.x.
Windows 10 is forced online connecting invasive horror.
If you have a corporation, do you want everything you do sent up to Microsoft?
I need to add I’ve paid for the earlier versions of windows and expect them to be maintained. In windows 10, it isn’t free, it is a way of monetizing the user. I’ll let them update if they refund me the retail price of my original OS.
Edited 2015-10-29 21:37 UTC
IRIC, they’re backporting all that shit back to 7 and 8. Plus you can turn it off anyway in 10. That being said, between 8.1 and 10, I actually prefer 8.1 – too many little nagging issues in 10 still. Plus, there isn’t a single new feature that I actually care about, or didn’t have already with 3rd party utils.
What they are back porting to 7 & 8.x is the enhanced telemetry for third party applications for those that use that feature, and that entire feature is entirely voluntary. Let me say that again, CEIP is entirely voluntary and it’s not active by default unless you’re using the Insider program, contrary to what the rumors suggest. If you’re part of the Insider program you already know about all that and agreed to support the Insider program with telemetry feedback anyway, so it’s stupid to complain about what you’ve already agreed to provide. Also contrary to what rumors suggest there’s no built-in keylogging in Windows 10. All of the features that record information for targeted advertising can be turned off. Cortana can be turned off. Web search from the task bar can be turned off. The only thing that can’t be turned off is the telemetry feed in Home (there’s no group policy editor in Home) and licensing check both of which have been part of Windows since XP. It’s only now that people have become more aware of those two items with all the other things you have to turn off to protect your privacy in 10. Microsoft has also always been vague about what the telemetry feed back entails. Part of that is because what is in the telemetry feed is different depending on the settings you have set (whether its basic or full and whether CEIP is enabled. What we do know is that it sends install experience, crash, and error reports to Microsoft, and that’s not any different than just about any advanced software system out there. If you’re using the enterprise edition of 10 then you can use the group policies to disable telemetry, change the update servers and policies, and in general lock down any privacy issues you may have concerns about. Beyond that, you air gap all computers with truly confidential information, anyway. Only a fool doesn’t.
So enough with the BS about the privacy issues 10 which are demonstrably manageable. It’s arguable that the NSA and its counterparts would have little trouble compromising any of the three mainstream desktop systems out there, yes including Ubuntu and other Linux distros. As an individual if you’re on the US, UK, DE, PRC intel etc target list you’re already screwed if you use any electronic communications medium. There’s little to be done as an individual with common means against unmanageable threats like state actors other than staying entirely off the grid.
As for 10 integrating 3rd party supplied utilities, you already pointed out it’s usefulness in eliminating going to 3rd parties for them. Why? Because if they are integrated into Windows it’s just that much easier to keep up with updates that’s a huge mess in Windows. Since there’s no central authority/repository for Windows software you end up with a ridiculous number of pieces software that all end up having to implement a call home to find out if it needs to be updated or not. If it’s not integrated then you have to check for updates manually, and that’s not a desirable feature these days. I’d much rather have Microsoft managing software updates centrally rather than a bazillion independents bundling update checks into their programs. Windows Store is a good idea, but its usefulness for the desktop is limited because even Microsoft can’t get rid of the legacy multiple personality disorder with its own applications and UIs (Skype in Store just being a link for a legacy .exe installer on Skype’s web page, for example).
All of that said, I’m not a Windows 10 apologist, either. There’s plenty of things I don’t like about the OS, and I tend to recommend people stick with 7 for now, that’s especially true since a lot of specialized business software developer houses still don’t support 10 even if they support 8.x.
Two things:
– Just because you can fiddle with telemetry settings in GPE or registry does not mean, that the setting is respected. It is respected only in the Enterprise SKU. In Pro or Home, you are SOL, the telemetry will go out anyway.
– Even if you turn Cortana and websearch off, the SearchUI.exe will contact bing anyway anytime you type something into start menu. Enjoy.
1) I never said it could be turned off in Home & Pro, I said it could be in Enterprise. It’s important to keep your personal computing and work computing separate as your personal computing habits are much more likely to get you into trouble with malware than your work habits.
1a) If you’re really concerned about what telemetry reveals about what’s on the computer, you air gap the machine, no matter what OS it’s running because most software platforms have error and quality control reporting and mistakes happen.
1b) Failing the above using ultra paranoid firewall rules can stop it. IE: White listing only domain addresses you verify as being necessary for your work while blocking everything else. In which case you can set strict rules that only allow update servers and severely limiting or blocking anything else.
1c) While it would be nice if Microsoft would be transparent about the information that’s included in telemetry, absence of proof otherwise, it’s probably just quality control information about driver states, software & configuration errors and crashes in basic mode. In full mode, I’d speculate it includes how often certain features are used, and how users tend to use them. Like I said, until someone manages to decrypt the https packets from telemetry, that’s only a guess.
2) Incorrect. When you actually turn web search from the task bar off it’s demonstrable via your favorite network tap that 10 (even Home) stops contacting Bing when you do a basic computer search. Tried it a couple of months ago because I was concerned about it too, proved it to myself that yes, it really did stop contacting Bing’s servers every time I searched with the task bar with both web search and Cortana turned off. That will not stop any other application that hooks into the task bar’s search box, however. It also won’t stop anything if Microsoft makes an update that doesn’t respect those settings. Not much you can do about that as Microsoft could just as easily do the same thing to 7 or 8. For that matter Canonical could suddenly stop respecting turning off the online search knob in Ubuntu.
2a) Again, if that’s a major concern air gap the machine you’re concerned about. Don’t just assume because it’s running <favorite Linux distro> or OS-X it’s not leaking information as well. Like I said, mistakes happen.
LOL. Sure.
This is not a “mistake,” this is an integral part of Windows 10 architecture. In a linux system you can completely turn off any sort of error reporting back to the vendor, in fact you can prevent the machine from contacting the vendor altogether and still get updates via other channels.
Let’s not pretend Linux, BSD, or even OSX is doing what MS is with Windows 10, because they ain’t.
Edited 2015-10-30 05:17 UTC
Depends on the Linux distribution IMO. With, say, Slackware or Gentoo, sure. With – for example – Red Hat or Ubuntu? Not so sure… (i.e. see that cool Amazon search button in Unity).
Citation please about any supposed data slurping by RedHat.
I am sure a good many OSAlert readers would be interested in ANY slurping by Linux distros. Even Ubuntu can have the Amazon bloatware removed by a simple command.
Come on please tell us…
Everything with systemd has “stuff to keep three letter agencies happy” in it. (Lennart Poettering, 2014, irc logs presented by the australian linux4Unme)
Now this impending statement of mine shall seem – to say the least – questionable to you, but… I don’t think I need any citation to support my point.
It’s a doubt based on principle.
What I mean is, if you have an OS which is designed to receive regular security/stability updates via network (and that is basically for good reason, you’ll want to concede) then you can’t tell for sure that any of those updates does not enable traffic back in some form – that is, unless you take care to examine (either via source code inspection, or binary disassembling!) the nature of each said update. Something that I highly doubt even system administrators do…
And remember: if an OS of the above kind has never attempted such data telemetry production in the past, it does not mean that it won’t in the future – IMHO, what counts is just that its ‘upgrade architecture’ does simply favour this by design, and its creators can enable the streaming of data whenever they see fit.
And I left out systemd from the whole picture here…
Most developers already struggle to analyze the telemetry. That telemetry is also anonimized by default.
Who thinks Microsoft actually has the capacity or desire to analyze telemetry data for “yummy private stuff”?
LOL. The point, you guys are trying so cutely to obfuscate, is that Microsoft is carrying out the data harvesting/logging as a black box, with little if any diligence or oversight from the user’s part.
Edited 2015-10-30 16:44 UTC
The user telemetry has been part of Windows since…forever. It is called the Customer Experience Improvement Program and it states (in a very clear message that links to the privacy statement):
The program helps Microsoft improve Windows. Without interrupting you, it collects information about your computer hardware and how you use Windows. The program also periodically downloads a file to collect information about problems you might have with Windows. The information is not used to identify or contact you.
It has 2 options: Yes, I want to participate in the program or No, I don’t want to participate in the program.
Now when you have a crash, non-working driver or anything similar that a normal user would consider “Windows doesn’t work properly” a log is collected and queued for sending to Microsoft. You can actually see EXACTLY what is going to be send. Sometimes it asks if it is okay to collect more information to troubleshoot the problem. It even warns at that moment that that extra information (a crashdump) could contain private information and that Microsoft would not use that information in any way other than to analyse the crash
The only difference between Windows 10 and older OS’s is that this option is now enabled by default (when you click next-next-finish). Not because Microsoft now has a division with 10.000.000 people looking at your private data but because they have fully changed to an Agile development method which includes a rapid release cycle (release early, release often). The CEIP is meant to improve Windows and to make customers happy, not to harvest any private data
I would be inclined to think the same. Yet apparently, a lot of people do not…
People are so cute when they want to believe fairytales just to rationalize their choices…
Certain people might look cute. Cocky trolls don’t…
In Ubuntu you can completely turn off those internet searches. And even with that crap on, what Canonical is doing (even if I disagree with it) is orders of magnitude more transparent that what MS does with Windows 10.
This is debatable as a minimum. Both OSes offer the option to turn off telemetry, yet for some reason Ubuntu’s toggle is effective while Windows’ is not (?). And even if at the moment the former seems more transparent regarding the usage and/or collection of such data, in practice it does not make it any more secure – things can change as soon as Canonical suddenly decides that they want to change their policy, even without declaring it so clearly to the average end user.
In conclusion, what I mean is that favoring certain other OSes vs Windows because of better privacy/security is a really weak point IMHO, because if you look at them more clearly, you will find that the gap – at least in principle – is narrower than it seems in this respect.
You might still want to favor those other OSes for different (better motivated) reasons, though.
Edited 2015-10-30 20:02 UTC
No. No there is no debate. That’s just you trying to bring up some desperate FUD to divert attention from the obvious privacy wart in Windows 10.
What the internet widgets and apport in Ubuntu do is in nowhere shape or form comparable to Microsoft’s “telemetry” gathering. In Ubuntu users can decide, and can completely opt out of, what they share with Canonical.
Edited 2015-10-30 21:04 UTC
There, fixed it for you. Aligned to Modern Civil Discussion Standards (TM), AKA “We Agree To Disagree”.
Meh.
In any case. The source code from the linux/bsd folk is out there and can be audited. So again, no, that what MS and Linux is doing is not the same is not open to discussion.
Edited 2015-10-30 23:59 UTC
1) Not every company is a big enterprise. We are a small company and everyone has Pro on their machine (Well, not anymore. Since last week, I’m running El-Capitan). Does that mean that we don’t deserve to protect our data, because we are not big enough?
1a) All other platform also have disable-able telemetry. They will also ask upfront about it. Yes, I checked OSX, Centos, Fedora and Ubuntu recently.
1b) fine, but that adds to Windows TCO. Don’t be surprised if that the need for constant hunting places it into the last place in the ranking.
1c) it is absolutely necessary to be transparent, and respect that some customers say ‘No’. Otherwise, it makes the system unusable and nothing more than a spy tool. Airgapping is not a acceptable solution.
2) Not true. Clean install Windows 10 into virtual machine, disable websearch and cortana and watch the searchui.exe to connect to a-0001.a-msedge.net (which is bing) every time you type into start menu. You can try it for yourself, or find many posts on the internet about the same. Many people resorted to block searchui.exe in the firewall. Such behavior is not acceptable.
I totally agree with you about be able to disable anything that’s a privacy concern. But it doesn’t change the fact that Microsoft isn’t transparent about what, why and how they collect any info, and more importantly it’s opt out, not opt in. Hopefully if nothing else all the hubbub about its privacy concerns will prompt more neophytes to start thinking about what they share and how it could be used against them. Who knows, it might even cause a lot of them to question Facebook’s and Google’s record. Who am I kidding? That’ll never happen.
As for the one source for updates I’m all for it, as long as it isn’t Windows Update. In my experience their track record for anything other than the OS itself is abysmal. In fact anytime I’m asked to fix a computer by a friend or family member the first question I ask is “Did it happen after updating something with Windows Update”. It’s amazing how often I get an affirmative answer. I had so many problems with their suggested driver updates that I ignored them as SOP.
A couple of years ago I decided to let WU update the drivers for a Microsoft keyboard. I figured, they made it, how could they screw it up. Well I should’ve continued with my SOP because on reboot I got a hung driver message and could no longer access the keyboard setting app in the control panel. I decided to search the MS site for a newer driver, which they had. It was 3 months newer then the update driver and fixed everything. Even today update still wants to install the other driver. Trust those bozos? Not a chance.
Add to that the fact that certain things I may not want to have updated. Graphics drivers is a perfect example. Why should I update the driver I use with my GTX 680 to the same one my GTX 980ti’s use? There’s nothing more a driver can squeeze out of my 680, and more importantly since it’s no longer a high priority GPU there’s just as good a chance a new driver will bork it as improve it. So I’ve got a driver that works perfect with it and I’m sticking with it. And Win7 as well I guess, because I wouldn’t have the option to use the older driver under Win10.
This “no optional” updates is a big mistake. Unless Microsoft can eliminate all the DYIs building their own systems and get all the hardware manufacturers to pare down their offerings, a lot, they will have nothing but problems and complaining users. There’s just too much possible variations where PCs are concerned to try to make it work. But as usual MS thinks it can impose it’s will upon the users. When will they understand there is no PC cult, that’s Apple’s iCult thing. PC users (for the most part) can think for themselves.
No, you really can’t. People have already tried that. No matter what options you set, simple Wireshark dump reveals that those options are for user’s peace of mind only and does not really do much in reality.
Agreed. you have to block around a 100 ip addresses in a router or firewall external to the W10 system in order to make it safe for use.
MS will keep on adding more IP addresses with each and every patch just to thwart the Naysayers.
It is a constant battler to stop Redmond getting hold of our data and what we do on OUR systems.
They have moved snooping into a whoe different league with W10.
And that makes me sad that Thom has ‘recommended’ that everyone move to W10 ASAP. I won’t be installing W10 anywhere and that is 10000000% correct.
..makes me sad that Thom has ‘recommended’ that everyone move to W10 ASAP. I won’t be installing W10 anywhere..
Like you I’m disappointed that Thom apparently doesn’t see and/or care to recognize the intrusive nature of “upgrading” a Windows installation to W10. To me and millions of others it’s simply a matter of keeping “personal computing” entirely personal. W10 on the desktop is designed and intended to make that an impossible task.
I’m ever so grateful that a decade ago I began transitioning to Linux for all my desktop needs, and that today, except for a single instance of Win7 running in a virtual machine on one of my Linux laptops, Windows has no place whatsoever in my personal computing life..
Edited 2015-10-31 20:10 UTC
[q]No, you really can’t. People have already tried that. No matter what options you set, simple Wireshark dump reveals that those options are for user’s peace of mind only and does not really do much in reality.[q]
Citation needed.
So, you’re one of those Internet novices who didn’t learn to use Google yet? Here you go:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-tol…
Or, alternatively, you can run Wireshark and see for yourself, just as I did.
The article doesn’t say that anything specific is being transmitted, other than the machine ID, which they probably have any way thru WPA, windows update, etc. So, what else do you have?
Edited 2015-11-01 16:49 UTC
And is is any different to what Windows XP was doing back in the day:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/04/11/winxp_search_assistant_sile…
Windows 7 has always been pretty solid for me. I can’t see any reason to upgrade. But having said that, I intend on going Linux all the way on my home laptop. No more dual boot. I no longer use Windows at home. I have to use it at work everyday.
I’m not anti-Microsoft or some Linux fan boy but I know which is the superior OS. (Oh yeah, I use the OS that everyone loves to hate, Ubuntu!)
Ubuntu is basically unusable on laptops because the brightness controls don’t work. Fedora works much better.
Huh? My Ubuntu laptop with working brightness controls says Whatchga talkin bout Willis?
You must be lucky. It is well known problem. If you have an Intel GPU you are fscked.
Not at all, it works on Thinkpad with Intel GPU.
Brightness keys are managed and processed by ACPI. The chance is, that your BIOS is buggy. But that is problem of your specific laptop model, not Ubuntu or Intel.
“We don’t think twice about updating to new operating systems releases on smartphones of tablets, but on PCs, we always get really uppity about it.”
Do we need to educate you on mobile OS’? What 3rd drivers do we need to worry about? What apps do we need to worry about? A mobile OS is a piece of cake compared to a desktop, no comparison and I do not understand how you can make such a remark.
Perhaps it is because I am an American but I say hell no! I own my PC not Microsoft. Windows 7 and Windows 8 are still supported operating systems. I choose, not Microsoft. When the operating systems EOL, then the user can perhaps get more nags from Microsoft to update but it is still the user’s choice.
“but at the same time, it is your machine, and if you want to run insecure software”
Since when is a supported operating system insecure? Who makes these commments???
Edited 2015-10-29 23:20 UTC
Strictly speaking, a mobile OS update is designed for one piece of hardware– the update Samsung rolls out to their Galaxy smartphones is different from the update HTC rolls out to their One line.
So each OS update is an individual OS.
PC’s running Windows are just a bit different.
I’m actually fairly happy with 8.1– Windows 10 is still a bit too chimera-ish for me.
Windows XP still demonstrates a well implemented interface. I have to go back to XP and 2003 systems with the classic interface. Everything is accessible, lacks the confusion of Win10’s metro/non-metro interfaces.
It is incredibly secure – all you need to do is pull the ethernet cable/wireless plug or run it within a sandbox.
Not only that, but WinXP will run faster than any newer OS, and it’ll use less resources. Right now I’m using a crappy netbook with 1GB of RAM and an Atom processor, and with WinXP it absolutely flies (boots in under 5 seconds, runs flawlessly). If I updated to Win10 it would be slow as molasses in winter. Definitely not an “upgrade” for me.
Well, CP/M will run even faster, and use even less resources than Windows XP– because it doesn’t do nearly as much.
XP is insecure by design, is getting more insecure every day, is ugly as sin, and is 14 years old.
People who think XP is the best OS available for their computer are the technological equivalent of flat-earthers.
I am aware of some European CP/M users that are quite miffed that we Americans mostly stuck with CP/M 2.2; they are convinced it is our fault CP/M 3.0 didn’t really take off.
As for me, you can have my CP/M 2.2 when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands. It isn’t obsolete until something better comes along.
People who think there is such a thing as “the best OS for everyone” is a technological equivalent of mental retards.
Windows XP is the best OS for my use-case on one of my laptops, and that is a fact. It’s not the best for my desktop, though.
We don’t think twice about updating to new operating systems releases on smartphones of tablets, but on PCs, we always get really uppity about it.
Let me rephrase it for you: “but with Windows, we always get really uppity about it.”
Mac users love updates. Whenever a new OS X version comes out they are so damn excited.
Linux users love updates. A big chunk of them even uses rolling release distros.
It’s not about mobile vs desktop at all.
Yes, it’s definitely a WINDOWS phenomenon. It’s because each Windows version gets a little more intrusive, and gets a little farther from a useful UI. Windows XP might have been buggy and insecure, but it wasn’t intrusive and hit the UI interface almost smack dab in the bullseye. There’s a reason many millions STILL use XP. I still use it… but I disable the ethernet device to keep it off the net. Windows Vista was a bit more intrusive, but still a decent interface. 7 was a little more intrusive, but still okay on the interface. 8 was even more intrusive, and started straying on the interface. 10 is in-your-face intrusive, and even farther away on the interface. If I were in charge of a bunch of Windows systems, I’d never go past 7. Most of the Windows folks I know are actually going back to 7, and the price for 7 install DVDs reflects that.
Exactly
We, the ‘informed’ users seem to have lost what trust we had left with MS totally with W10.
Nanny microsoft wants to know everything about us and how we use their OS. They say it is to ‘provide a better customer experience’. What a load of codswallop if you don’t mind me saying.
In the past we applied their patched every month after patch Tuesday with little thought. Now, the cat is out of the bag. We question (rightly IMHO) every patch just to see what nasties they are including.
Do we do that for OSX and Linux?
Well, for most Linux disto’s we can easily see the changes in source form should we so desire. I say most because it seems that with every release, Ubuntu is getting further and further away from the path that Linus put Linux on all those years ago.
As for OSX, Tim Cook has made some pretty clear statements about the data collection it makes on its OS’s. I am sure that there are people out there making sure that Apple lives up to those statements.
so yes we have become slightly paranoid about windows patches. Until MS comes clean and tells the world what is in those KB’s in detail we will continue to adopt this approach.
MS could fix the problem but from where I sit it seems that pigs might learns to fly before this happens.
Exactly!
I dunno, the handful of Mac OS-X users I know mostly cringe when Apple releases a new 10.X.0 version. Experience seems to have taught them that there’s probably going to be something broken that affects their personal use.
This particular Linux user loves updates, but only bug and security fixes. I tend to be one of the users that likes the more stable and tame distros.
I’m also generally conservative with Windows, although I decided to upgrade to 10 not long after release, largely because I needed to get a feel for the new OS.
Wrong. I am still using an older IOS version on my iPad because the newer ones are way slower.
My wife is also still using OSX 10.6 because that was the last version that supported some software that is very important to her.
Consumers normally don’t care much about which OS they run. Business cares a lot. Business uses Windows
(there, I can generalize as well and actually be mostly correct)
I’m also running older iOS. The last time I updated my iPhone, I also had to update my MacOS because it suddenly required a newer version of iTunes than my version of OSX could run.
My trusty Mac Mini is now running the newest OSX it can. If I update my iPhone again, I might have to buy a new Mac.
My wife updated her iPad 1 to iOS 5.mumble before giving it to me. Unfortunate, because one of the things Apple decided in iOS 5 was that the Music app should no longer be able to play videos. Side effect: the iPad could no longer handle playlists of videos.
And even on those few Apple devices and/or apps that handle playlists of videos, you can’t shuffle them. Used to be able to do that on the iPad before that cursed iOS 5 update.
Still, I hope every single Windows installation moves to Windows 10 soon, especially those still using dreadful Windows XP.
Even if I had the desire to, Windows 10 is not being made available to us XP users.
Furthermore, I have doubts that Office 2000 will run as flawlessly under Win 10 as it does in XP.
VisiCalc and WordStar are good enough for anyone. You and your newfangled windowing UI!
I was once chewed out on the WordStar mailing list for personally having caused the demise of WordStar because I refused to upgrade from 4.0.
Sorry, but 5.x and above didn’t turn my crank. Among other things, I greatly valued the ability to PIP my documents [Z] to turn them into raw, seething text files. With 5.x, they changed the document format so that was no longer possible.
Just for fun I googled and it seems to work just fine except for Outlook 2000: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_10-win_upgr…
I just finished paying $120 for a fresh copy of Windows 10 for a new PC because I don’t feel like looking installing an old version and upgrading.
It’s not like I haven’t owned other older versions of windows, between home and work I’ve probably accumulated enough valid licenses for various versions of Windows to supply an army.
I can install an old copy of XP and upgrade it to Windows 10 for free but to buy Windows 10 it’s $120 even for the unsupported OEM version? Why?
I’ve never used actual support from Microsoft for anything in my life. Microsoft should either lower their OEM OS costs or give people a “license manager” portal where they can archive all their licenses for different versions of Windows and Office and upgrade them or add/remove devices as needed.
The free upgrade is them saying that at some point you bought a windows license (either yourself or as part of the prebuilt machine) and that this qualifies you for a software update. You have to pay for a new copy because that is what you’re getting, it’s new. From their point of view most of the time a license is tied to a machine, not to an actual person and in quite a few ways this makes sense. Having a license manager goes against that idea. If you sell your computer to someone it would suck for them to have to buy a new license or be told at some point that their windows isn’t valid anymore because the previous owner took that license and used it to upgrade their own machine.
you don’t have to upgrade from the old version anymore. Just typing your Windows 7 or 8.1 key is now good enough.
I still use Windows XP on some of my computers and I still find it the best Windows ever from the perspective of GUI usefulness and functionality. If it had “Aero Snap” back-ported to easily stack windows side-by-side, that would be absolutely perfect GUI for a desktop OS. Unfortunately, this OS gets less and less supported by modern software every day, so it’s usefulness diminishes.
Indeed, I ended up only upgrading my PC to Windows 7 earlier this year so that I could play Elite: Dangerous – otherwise I was pretty happy with it. 7 hasn’t given me anything new other than letting software run that doesn’t support XP. I suppose some day there’ll be some software I want that requires Windows 10, and that’s when I’ll end up switching to 10.
<rant>
Sick of this. I have a work computer with win 7. I said no to the win 8 and 8.1 update. Then the win10 updates. They keep re-issuing it. They then shoved a copy of Win10 down at me into the $Windows.~BT and $Windows.~ws folders. Twice. I deleted it. I then *again* selected “Hide Update” and they’ve re-issued it and the upgrade to win10 kb3035583.
I’m sick of them re-issuing the spyware and telemetry patches. I like my illusions of privacy. I’m sick of them downloading gigabytes to my computer and busting my cap and costing me money.
I’m running some very specific and extremely expensive design and simulation software. It won’t run on newer versions of wintendo.
To make it all worse. When win10 upgrade came out, I imaged my hard disk over to the storage server (I don’t trust them) and said “Yes! lets try this”. The upgrade failed. The rollback failed. My machine wouldn’t boot and gave me a sad face. They bricked the system.
So. Lets get this straight microsoft and why your rapidly burning all the good-will you’ve earned with me over the last 4 years of win7..
1) I said no. It means “no”.
2) Your stuff doesn’t work on my hardware. So. No.
3) No means.. no.. not no now.. and here you want it again soon.
4) I like my illusion of privacy and don’t want your spyware. No.
5) I meant no with item four, please stop re-issuing KB*[1,2]49 and kb3035583 and un-doing the hide update.
For those that are interested, my workstation isn’t some old bunky, and is a SuperMicro workstation board with a 12-core 6348 Opteron and 64gb ram. A single SATA disk in AHCI (data lives on a server). nVidia GTX7800, and a Creative SB X-Fi and a USB3 card. It’s not exotic. It’s got plenty of cycles.
It’s a pity my NetBSD computer and my VMS cluster are so much less hassles.
</rant>
Windows 7 has still a bit over 4 years of life in it and as I have specifically purchased a boxed retail version of 7 for my PC (in case I need to upgrade something) then no I will not replace that license with OEM 10 version bound to specific computer. Also I am using that remaining 4 years to quietly watch MS to see where they are heading with all their desktop OS policies and offerings. Whether my next OS will be Windows or something else remains to be seen. Till then Windows 7 works really well and I refuse to move solely by hype.
I agree whole heartedly.
To be honest my next step is to buy another SSD and installing Mint on that. See if I can live with it. At the very least prepare my liferaft.
Thom just gets a bee in his bonnet about somethings.
I agree with Android updates as security is tied to that. However Win 7 is being updated. So branding Windows 7 users as some sort of luddites is stupid.
Downgrading my license from Full Retail to OEM for an ‘upgrade’ to a newer version who’s main selling point for me is DX12 and thats about it. Not sold.
Yes, Windows 7 is good for 4 years. Alot can happen in 4 years with Operating Systems. I’ll wait to see what happens. For all we know Microsoft may be out of business by then and not offering security updates anyway. I may just go with Linux.I already have it as the second OS and can go to it whenever I want. It has it’s own annoyances, but I can deal with them if I have to.
“Still, I hope every single Windows installation moves to Windows 10 soon, especially those still using dreadful Windows XP”
well that comment above is very ignorant. And thank god you will not get what you want, I have disabled windows update, I have some apps that don’t work past windows xp so those computers will remain untouched
Interesting, so they’re going to intentionally try to brick peoples systems now. Until they make it so that the in-place upgrade actually works consistently, they’re not going to get sane people to do it. I know exactly three people who the ‘free’ upgrade worked for properly, and in all three cases it was a bare-bones minimal installation of Windows that they upgraded. And even that doesn’t work consistently. One of Microsoft’s recommendations to make things work is to ‘disconnect all non-essential hardware before the upgrade’, which just shows even more how out of touch they are with reality.
It’s really obvious to anyone with any software development experience that they didn’t test this properly before they started offering it, and on top of that aren’t testing most of the updates that they are forcing on people with Windows 10 either. I’m personally getting really tired of this whole ‘our customers are our beta testers’ mentality that seems to be invading every type of software development right now. Game companies can get away with it, as can some small industrial companies, and for open source it makes some sense because most of the users are programmers and engineers themsleves, but there is no reason that the most popular commercial OS in the world should not be doing this, especially considering that they are making ridiculous amounts of money.
Also, as mentioned in other comments, the ‘upgrade anxiety’ is entirely a Windows thing, and it’s largely because Windows upgrades consistently break things horribly in ways that require a clean re-install for most people. I have no issue upgrading my Linux systems, I run Gentoo with the ‘unstable’ branch and upgrade on a daily basis, and use a locally built copy of the most recent stable release of the Linux kernel. When those systems break from an update, I can fix it in a couple of minutes. When the one Windows system I own breaks from an update, it takes HOURS to fix, and often requires a partial (or on occasion full) re-install of some of the software I have, and that’s considering that all I use the Windows system for is gaming (and anymore, there are only two games I play that I can’t run on Linux either natively or through Wine).
Hi,
You’re lucky then.
My Gentoo machine would break half the time and often when it did break it took several hours to fix (assuming, like me, you’ve got a stable Windows machine you can use to search for the work-arounds needed to fix it). I grew less and less willing to risk updating, so left it longer and longer, and the longer you go without updating the more things need to be updated and the higher the risks get. Eventually I stopped updating completely because the risks are far greater than any possible benefit.
Now it’s been so long since it was updated that it’s virtually impossible to update without “hailstorm of breakage”, because everything depends on everything (e.g. portage itself won’t update without Python being updated and you can almost guarantee updating Python will break everything else using Python). I’d have to re-install from scratch and then spend a week searching for a magic “Xorg + ATI drivers + KDE” combination that only mostly works.
I can’t afford to have the machine gone for that long (the LAN depends on it for DHCP, NTFS, etc). Eventually I’ll just buy a new server so I can set it up and test it without risk, then after I know the new system is setup and stable I can switch from old to new.
Basically, it’s going to cost me about $3000 to update without risk; and will probably take half a month trying out various alternatives in a futile attempt to find the “least broken piece of crap of the week distro” (while knowing it’s all the same “headless chickens with no concrete standards and nobody in charge to prevent breakage” user-space regardless of which distro it is); and this expensive nightmare is far more preferable than “emerge world”.
– Brendan
A large part of it is that I don’t use any kernel drivers from out of tree, and have an Intel GPU. ATI/AMD/Nvidia proprietary GPU drivers are horrible and do break things consistently, just like almost every other third party kernel drivers out there.
On top of that, I have backups set up sanely, and can rollback an update just by rebooting. Yes, Gentoo takes a lot more effort to install and maintain properly than Windows does, but it’s also way more reliable if you use it right (case in point, at work I have to deal with a variety of Linux and Windows servers, the Fedora servers need rebooted about once a week, the Windows ones need rebooted about once a month, the Gentoo ones only need rebooted when the hardware fails or there’s a kernel update (which happens a lot less frequently at work than on my personal systems)). If you want a Linux system that requires no effort to maintain, you should be using Ubuntu, not Gentoo.
For what it’s worth though, if you just need a SOHO gateway system (which is what it sounds like you are using that Gentoo system for), look seriously into pfSense, it’s rock-solid and provides a lot of advanced features that even some Linux router distributions don’t.
Hi,
It’s used for software development, web browsing, viewing PDFs, etc. It’s also providing DHCP, TFTP, FTP, HTTP/Apache, NTP, NTFS and samba to other machines on the LAN.
If you ask 100 people which Linux distro to use you’ll get 100 different opinions, and none really matter beyond which GUI is default because you know it’s all going to be broken sooner or later regardless. Mostly; Linux/open source are focused on replacing prior poor design with new poor design (and bickering over “init scripts vs. systemd” or “wayland vs. X” or “KDE vs Gnome” or “rpm vs. pkg vs. deb” or whatever else it is this week); because nobody has ever had the balls or the ability to set a clear direction for the future of the OS and stick to it.
– Brendan
One of my peers is still on XP and will continue to be, as will various other professionals I know. The reason is simply that newer versions of Windows will not run the software they use for work. (Neither will WINE.) The software works, XP still runs, so the choice is to run XP or spend tens of thousands of dollars on replacement software. The choice is pretty easy.
Regarding phone updates, I have to disagree with the idea people find it a smooth process they do regularly. Most of the iPhone users I know have been bitten at one point or another with devices which stopped working during an upgrade or that got stuck in endless upgrade-reboot loops. They tend to hold off now until others have tested a major version and they upgrade weeks or months later. The same for Android, the Android users I know mostly get a new upgrade with a new phone because Android upgrades almost always introduce pointless changes to the UI and reduce battery life.
Why would people want to upgrade when it usually comes with a lot of risk and no practical benefit?
Our company still has Windows 98 in production use. There are no drivers for anything more recent and the manufacturer has ended all support for the machines operated by these computers.
they stop forcing updates that may break. Driver updates, in particular, should never be pushed especially when the drivers do not match those provided with Windows. I’ve already had to troubleshoot several win 10 installs because of this shit.
Adobe CS 6, the last CS that could be purchased outright, breaks in multiple ways on Win 10. So for those of us who rely upon purchased software, a “free” update to Win 10 could cost $50 per month.
My wife relies upon an older version of AutoCad for her work. If that version isn’t compatible with Windows 10, a Win10 auto-upgrade could cost her $1,200.
I can’t recommend it.
Have a dual boot install with something ubuntu and windows 10 insider. I use it as little as possible.
Still seeing weird behaviour. The startmenu pops up but it doesn’t accept keystrokes anymore. It used to do that before the recent update.
xubuntu boots in six seconds from grub.
Given their pathetic attempt to whitewash windows 8 into an even LESS useful UI, undoing a lot of the things put back in 8.1 and continuing the trend of giving a giant middle finger to desktop users…
They pretty much HAVE to shove it down our throats as no one using Windows for a reason (like gaming, compatibility with certain software) would use it by CHOICE.
See how they broke suck-u-rom protection, AND actively blocked the hacks to bypass it. HERPA. FREAKING. DERP. Punctuated. For. Emphasis.
For laughs I made a backup of my media center (8.1) machine to a spare drive. I use this machine pretty much for gaming on the TV, watching movies, and that’s about it. i7 4770k, 16 gigs RAM, GTX 770, somewhere around 12tb total disk space (lost track of the actual total at some point.)
Ran the 10 upgrade… 80% of the games installed on the machine just up and stopped working — laugh being the ones I cracked because of false positives despite owning them were MORE likely to work than the legitimate uncracked ones. Pretty much my entire GoG library stopped working if the game was too new for DosBOX to handle it, Arc doesn’t run, Steam took an hour to even get updated enough to function… and don’t even get me started about Battle.net
When Arc, STEAM and Battle.net don’t even work, you really have to ask “did they even TEST this?”. About the only things installed that did work were Witcher 3, Skyrim and Saints 4. Sure as shine-ola doesn’t run newDark (which laughably I spend more time gaming on than anything else – fan missions for Thief Gold/2/System Shock 2)
… and if it’s that ridiculously broken and useless for a media center, am I REALLY going to convert my Win 7 road laptop and 8.1 Workstations that have important stuff on them to it?
For some reason MS seems to want to take the one market they have dominance of and tell every last one of the users in that market to go plow themselves. Worse they keep dicking with the UI for **** knows what reason when to be brutally frank the pinnacle of UI design was Windows 98 once you turned off the stupid shit like the channel bar. With 8.1 it’s much the same where you can make it a decent OS if you kill off the metro crap, start page crap, and throw something like Classic Shell on it.
Whilst sure, I can “fix” 10 much the same way, it’s a broken disaster for what I use Winblows for… Entertainment.
Would have me looking at Linsux or OSuX if they didn’t inhale the proverbial equine of short stature at the same general tasks, assuming what you want even exists or works on them.
As I said at the start, Win 8 and 10 feel like Microsoft giving desktop users the finger in a desperate attempt to break into a market they have little chance in… as such I’ve got two fingers right back at them.
The ONLY reason I put 8.1 on the media center was for proper DX11 and that I could “fix” the ui into something decent — and pretty much if it ran on 7 it runs on 8.1
Win 10? So far it’s as big a shitstorm as regular 8, Vista or ME.
Their making it recommended is just them having to force it on people who don’t know any better, and it’s gonna blow up in their face sooner than later.
Though that pretty much describes everything they’ve done Since 7, apart from the highly apologetic 8.1 that you still have to third-party into usefulness.
Edited 2015-11-03 18:11 UTC