If Microsoft wants to make PC hardware, it needs to do so properly and commit to the same kinds of updates as other PC OEMs.
Almost every other PC OEM has refreshed its systems for Kaby Lake. Almost every other PC OEM has adopted, at least for machines in the premium space that Surface occupies, USB Type-C and Thunderbolt 3. Surface Pro – a machine which, in its early generations, arguably defined that particular style of two-in-one systems – is no longer unique. HP, Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, and others all have solid two-in-one offerings. These machines are modeled after the Surface Pro concept, but they now embody that concept better than Microsoft’s own system. The Surface has been out-Surfaced.
The failure to do anything with Surface for so long makes us wonder just what Microsoft is up to. If the company is serious about its hardware ambitions – and officially, at least, it still says that its intent is to produce market-leading systems under the Surface brand – then it has to take its hardware seriously. That means refreshing it to keep pace with the competition.
He’s exactly right. I love my surface Pro 4 – no way I’m ever going back to cumbersome laptops with fixed, stand-in-the-way keyboards – but it definitely leaves a few things to be desired hardware-wise. Although not a huge problem for me since I don’t use it, the pen tracking is pretty terrible, the display has some light bleeding issues here and there, the processor is nice but definitely a generation behind, and battery life is decent, but not exceptional. Except for the pen, these are all things that could be addressed by refreshing the device with Intel’s latest.
So, Microsoft – what will it be?
Kaby lake isn’t that much of an improvement. You’re not missing much. I guess the big selling point was 4K Youtube , Netflix and slightly improved power savings. So If those are you’re pain points, go ahead and complain.
It’s nice to see that in 2017, Intel has finally reached the same milestone ARM and Nvidia reached in 2014 with the Tegra X1.
Which spec are you referring to? Did the Tegra support 10-bit HEVC ? Or 10 bit VP 9? Or the power usage ( which ARM still beats intel by a mile and a half in embedded) ?
Just what I quoted you on, 4K Netflix on the desktop. I get that the Wintel platform was technically capable of it already, and it was Netflix stalling due to piracy issues. But honestly, piracy was possible with hacked set top boxes so I still believe there was an unspoken technical issue holding it up on Wintel.
I know could technically play 4Kp60 video on my last gaming rig, a Haswell based machine, but when I tried it on the Intel iGPU it was stuttering and eventually crashed the browser. Only through the discrete GPU could I maintain a reliable stream. Anecdata, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
Yeah, sorry forgot to update. But for future reference, it is the 10-bit HEVC aka H.265 Main 10 Profile.
The tegra does indeed have hardware support for it, while Intel Skylake had H.265 Main profile in previously. Which can also do 4k, but not at 10 bit colors. Apparently Netflix insisted on having 10 bit support.
I suspect the surface line was more about giving a hefty prod to the hardware OEMs… If MS continues to push the surface line hard then they risk alienating all the other manufacturers that they depend upon.
With linux installed, the surface pro is decent.
So it’s silly, I have been looking for quite some time for a tablet that I could put Linux on, mostly has a proof of concept, and because I think Gnome-Shell is pretty damned close to getting there (I also want to test out Plasma Mobile, or whatever it’s called this week).
Thing is, I was looking at the Surface Pro, then found that Asus was selling a much better system in the Transformer 3 Pro.. unfortunately I can’t find any place in the USA that sells them!
MS’s strategy with the Surface line looks pretty good to me.
Actually, they just mapped it over what Google did with Nexus.
In both cases, OEMs took too much liberty with the platform, trying to take control over it (Samsung almost forking out Android; PC OEMS bundling their crappy apps/tools and hindering UX) and choosing not to follow the directions of its creator (Windows 8 tablets and touch devices market failure).
In both cases, building their “own” device was a very sensible move.
Surface Book/Pro was a great way for MS to show what they want Windows to be for nomad users.
I heartfully dislike the Surface PCs, for many personnal reasons, but I must recognize that they did a pretty good job with it so far, and strengthened the Microsoft and Windows brands.
(And I fully agree with BSoB on the CPU non-issue).
While I have a Surface 3 Pro (https://t2-project.org/hardware/portable/Microsoft/SurfacePro3/) I mostly use it with T2 Linux. Howver, I find myself often longing for an actual laptop. Usually working in airplane or on an armchair. The surface with attached keyboard is simply not standing nice on airplane trays and the lap, …
Unless you use the tablet “mode” often, aka consuming media one may actually prefer the laptop form factor, ^aEUR|
Edited 2017-04-29 16:40 UTC
Wife got one for her artwork, which she doesn’t use it for but anyway…
Problems with the Surface Pro 4
1. Battery life pretty crap
2. Surface pen routinely loses connection to it.
3. Windows 10 pen apps suck so much CPU/memory that they eventually lag and crash.
4. Bluetooth routinely crashes requiring a reboot.
5. Windows Hello routinely refuses to wake up and requires hard reset
6. Sometimes doesn’t wake up from sleep.
All those problems are common if you look around the forums. It’s a mediocre laptop and a mediocre tablet. Just like those old Compaq Tablet PCs but with a faster processor.
7. Wifi hardware sucks. I’m not sure if all of them have this, but the one I support for a coworker has a crappy Marvell wifi chip in it. A unit he paid $2,600 for and it doesn’t even have a decent wifi controller!
It is generally not a good idea to compete with your customers. Therefore, I can imagine there is some internal resistance to manufacturing hardware at Microsoft.
The surface line is a showcase for what can be done with Windows 10. The sad thing is to see that most manufacturers can clone but rarely improve on the surface devices. There are many similar devices but few can provide the overall package that the Surface does and therein lies the problem.
Most of the issues revolved around bad battery life, slow CPUs, low ball specs for RAM/Storage for entry level SKUs. I’m sorry but 4GB/128GB is NOT enough for a WindowsPC with a modern tabbed browser and media consumption.
No PC OS has been able to deliver the definitive touch only experience. Microsoft is in the best position to do so because it controls the OS and the major productivity apps people use. As of right now, Windows 10 is a step back. Maybe voice is where we should be heading… Dictation, voice queries, etc… Cortana is sadly not yet ready. Maybe amazon should buy MS or vice versa en marry their Alexa and AI platforms with Windows.
And the biggest problem in my oppinion is exactly that they seem absolutely incapable of taking advantage of this position.
The Surface Pro 4 is a nice laptop*, but it is a terrible tablet. For pure streaming and browsing it is ok-ish, but its battery life is much worse than what you expect from a tablet, it is heavy, and windows 10 as a touch operating system is a joke compared to iOS and Android, and most of the apps are hopeless
*) although a bit too slow, even in i5 version, their storage is too slow, installing updates for instance takes forever.