Multiple senior Microsoft officials told me at the time that the issues were all Intel’s fault, and that the microprocessor giant had delivered its buggiest-ever product in the “Skylake” generation chipsets. Microsoft, first out of the gate with Skylake chips, thus got caught up by this unreliability, leading to a falling out with Intel. Microsoft’s recent ARM push with Windows 10 is a result of that falling out; the software giant believes that Intel needs a counter to its dominance and that, as of late 2016, AMD simply wasn’t up to the task.
Since then, however, another trusted source at Microsoft has provided with a different take on this story. Microsoft, I’m told, fabricated the story about Intel being at fault. The real problem was Surface-specific custom drivers and settings that the Microsoft hardware team cooked up.
What a train wreck for Microsoft. Incredible.
As anyone who has followed Microsoft for more than five minutes knows, giant f–k-ups at Microsoft are about as unusual as a seven-day week. Also, the irony (and chutzpah) of Microsoft accusing anyone else of a monopoly is no doubt lost on them.
Edited 2017-08-15 00:01 UTC
[This post provoked my first comment here after reading since ~2003. Thank you OSAlert :-)]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in my opinion this is just ‘bad luck’ for Microsoft as this all just came up with this consumer report news, where they asked for return rates on tablets, included the Surface line but (obviously) not laptops.
Let me explain:
We’ve had such a terrible experience at work with our three Dell XPS 15 9550 in late 2015. This is also a Skylake product. This machine cost about the same as my own MacBook Pro 15″, got great reviews and so I was very excited to switch from a 5 year old HP laptop as my Windows development machine.
But what a letdown at first.
For every piece of software you installed, you got a bluescreen. No joke.
Honestly, some guys were counting the blue screens with tally sheets while setting the machine up with the different software we need.
We were discussing about returning the laptops, but instead kept them and sat it out with the almost monthly firmware updates and various driver and Windows updates. After countless updates and patience it was then fairly stable.
Who’s to blame? I think it’s the package of ‘too new’ and untested products in late 2015. This was all either just released or at least quite new:
– Intel Skylake processors
– Samsung M.2 NVMe SSD
– Thunderbolt 3
– Dual graphics with Intel and Nvidia GPUs
Totally out of topic mini review of the Dell XPS 15:
– Great performance (that was the reason to buy in the first place)
– Great 4K screen
– Great keyboard
– Nice look and feel
– Great selection of ports (USB3, USB3C with Thunderbolt 3, HDMI, SD Card reader, audio+micro jack)
However:
– Unusable positioning of the web cam at the bottom of the screen
– Unusable positioning of the microphone (below the touch pad, so others don’t hear you)
– Headphones only work on first connection, when unplugged you first have to put the machine in standby to get them working again
– Windows and apps still don’t work very well with HiDPI screens
– Battery lasts not very long
– Useless touch screen
Edit:
They forgot to include the TPM chip required for Windows BitLocker. Later revisions of the 9550 got it.
Who makes that?
Edited 2017-08-15 07:42 UTC
I think the OEM drivers are the major contributing factor here.
I’ve got a Skylake laptop (officially it’s a System76 unit, but those are just rebranded Clevo systems) that I’ve had since about a month after the architectural release which runs Linux and has had no issue, and dual boots a stock install of Windows 10 Pro that is completely devoid of Dell or HP or custom microsoft drivers and has also had no issues. Similarly, we have some Skylake systems we built in-house where I work that we got not long after CPU’s and MB’s became commercially available to consumers, and those have not had any issues either..
Conversely, I’ve never seen an early release Dell, Lenovo, or HP laptop that didn’t have issues, and the Acer and ASUS ones I’ve seen that had no issues despite being new releases have been few and far between.
Ever since Windows 8, Microsoft has been a train wreck.
I hate to say it, but bring back Ballmer
Nothing will change the fact Windows 8 and beyond are attempts to turn Windows into a cell phone type OS and get a 30% cut of every software purchase through their store. Only real competition can fix this, which won’t happen unless Microsoft is split up by court order.
Opinion without backing by facts. Check.
Claiming something obviously not true. Check – as I and others using Windows can use the system without looking or behaving anything like a “cell phone type OS”. MS would lose a lot of customers if they actually tried something like that.
There are viable OS alternatives and there’s no reason to split MS into two. Unlike e.g. Intel that actually have had anti-competitive behavior MS have actually behaved well for a long time. Well is of course relative but the days when MS tried to hinder competition by using their position is (generally) over.
Windows 8’s start screen was an undeniable attempt to make Windows like a cell phone and force everyone to get used to buying apps through the store that displayed in “cell phone mode”(metro). If you don’t see this, or the new 10 edition that will require extra money to install non store apps; you have to be either blind or paid PR firm trying to take attention away from what everyone knows Microsoft is doing. It is painfully obvious and the proof is the operatong system itself.
You mean the edition of Windows that is free to OEMs, with the cost to upgrade being on par with what a regular Windows license costs?
You know, the edition that many customers were SPECIFICALLY asking for leading up to its release?
Oh, so horrible of Microsoft to give people exactly what they ask for. I couldn’t imagine a more nefarious move.
Wait, what? People weren’t asking for Windows 10 S. Maybe the OEMs were? But normal people certainly were not. I doubt the OEMs were, more likely some were threatening to go Linux ’cause it’s free, so MS came up with S that is also free for OEMs, but you’re stuck only using things from their app store, what customers would want that? There is a reason why Windows Phone failed…
Normal people want software to come through the store. 1 central point to search/install/uninstall software and games that comes from a trusted/vetted source, doesn’t break other software, doesn’t add startup-/taskbar-/notificationarea-items or seperate updaters and just works.
My parents and most of my friends are such normal people and they are much happier with these systems compared to “tucows.com/download.com/random-googled-site-with-adware”.
I am not such a person, so for me Home/Pro/Enterprise (and way too many other versions) are still available.
Not everything that comes from the store is a “phone-app”, and if I have to install Itunes for someone I always choose the one from the store nowadays. It keeps my supporttime reasonable so I can geek out
Windows Phone didn’t fail because all software came through the store. According to that logic iOS and Android should have failed as well
All of that said, Windows S shouldn’t exist. There is a switch in Settings->Apps->Apps&features that should be set like this as follows by default:
* Home: Allow apps from the Store only
* Pro: Warn me before installing apps from outside the Store
* Enterprise: Allow apps from anywhere
This would make it possible for everyone to be “secure” by default, but would still make it possible to add drivers that aren’t on Windows Update, run a command prompt for troubleshooting and install those 1 or 2 programs that you want but aren’t in the Store.
ChromeOS is becoming very popular in certain markets (education is a big one), and cost isn’t the only thing.
All the things that make ChromeOS popular, Windows S is trying to replicate – management simple enough for a school teacher to administer a classroom of laptops, for example.
Closed ecosystem that prevents people from installing
whatever crap malware they come across (As in, no more installing 20 pieces of garbage along with your free crossword puzzle game) is also a plus.
They also released, at the same time, new management tools geared for schools with small IT departments (or nearly no IT department to speak of) for managing groups of these types of devices.
Schools want this. Hell, students want this – I see a lot of college students with Chromebooks, and Windows S is an attempt to offer the Chromebook experience.
People are buying Chromebooks. They’re spending money on them over regular Windows laptops. That means they want them. Windows S is an attempt at providing the Chromebook experience.
So the logic is:
1. People buy Chromebooks rather then Windows
2. Microsoft takes Windows, removes something and rebrands that same lesser-Windows as more-secure.
3. Profit.
Thats a failing strategy and I am surprised that isn’t obviously for everybody.
Edited 2017-08-17 12:21 UTC
Ballmer was the beginning of the rot, not the end of the good times. That said, Satya Nadella might be the one to turn things around – hopefully, not before there is some real competition in the OS marketplace.
Oh, and you mistyped “Windows 1”.
Looks for me as Ballmer’s buddy Stephan, burning memo, Elop was probably not the best choice to lead the surface thing. I am not that suprised he continued to general fail whole product palettes while blaming others for it. Of course it again only implodes years later and again nobody remembers who was responsible for the fiasco.
Edited 2017-08-17 11:41 UTC
I followed the article that you linked to from
My own conclusion is that Surfaces are the Macs of the Windows-Worlds: They are expensive, have too few ports that need adapters, but people really like using them and they are well supported
I have a Toshiba Tablet with Intel processor from the same era running flawlessly from time of purchase..
Toshiba and flawlessly in the same sentence?
You are one lucky guy. I only ever had one Toshiba laptop and it was the biggest POS the world has ever seen.
I was changing the power brick every 4 months. it was crashing non stop.
Horrible, horrible thing.
Intel or MS’s fault, I don’t know and don’t care, but here’s an expedited list of the issues our Surface Pro 4 has (i5):
1. Random bluescreens
2. Random blackscreens (only cursor visible, requires forced reboot)
3. Random bluetooth disconnects requiring restart (this hasn’t happened in a couple months so maybe fixed)
4. Windows Hello camera randomly either doesn’t turn on at all, or starts freaking out and can’t be used to log in.
5. Surface pen stops working randomly (improved recently).
6. Screen sometimes doesn’t respond to touch properly.
Overall the buggiest piece of hardware I’ve owned. It has gotten better with updates though so I have hope. Won’t be buying another one though. Next time it’s iPad + Laptop again to avoid the compromises.
7. Hot bag syndrome, when your machine decides to turn on inside your bag/sleeve and doesn’t standby anymore. Sometimes caused by bumping the power button, but mostly by poltergeist.
All these issues have disappeared 1 by 1 on all our Surface Pro 3 and 4 (no 5 yet) with firmware updates. I have 1 user left that isn’t on the latest firmware and 1703 version and he still has BlueTooth disconnects (mouse) and blackscreens sometimes after lunch that can only be fixed by a reboot.
Almost all of the issue seem to have been related to powermanagement, but I don’t believe that Microsoft was overly aggressive with their settings resulting in these issues because batterylife has also improved slighty with time.
Too many issues, but all got resolved and users wanted to stick with the devices which is not the case with other problematic hardware/software
I’m pretty sure hot bag syndrome is caused by Windows waking up at 11PM everyday and forcefully checking for updates.
that’s just how Windows works
Since the CR comparisons are against other tablets, I wonder how much of returns are due to people blindly installing software, as is often the case with Windows, since that isn’t at all convenient with Android, or even possible with iOS.
^aEURoeDue to its comparatively higher breakage rate, Microsoft laptops cannot be recommended by Consumer Reports at this time,^aEUR the publication notes.
https://www.thurrott.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/chart.jpg
They are not compared against other tablets but against laptops. Consumer Reports is also not talking about returns but about “estimated breakage rate by the end of the 2nd year of ownership”