Apple’s Jony Ive has served as the company’s Senior Vice President of Design for several years now, but Apple has announced today that the executive is being named Chief Design Officer (a newly-created position). Additionally, Ive and will be handing the managerial reins of both the industrial and software design units at Apple over to two new leaders on July 1st.
[…]
Ive’s new role will still leave him in charge of the company’s hardware and software design teams overall, but allowing others to handle the day-to-day affairs of each design group will free him up for other tasks. Among those other tasks, Ive says, is a focus on the design of Apple’s retail stores and new campus.
Let the pointless speculation, begin.
it’s a promotion. good for him and probably good for the company (if he’s as good as the marketing material thinks he is)
“Let the pointless speculation, begin.” ? Grammatical errors aside, what’s up with encouraging pointless speculation?
That is not a grammatical error. The comma’s there on purpose to encourage a certain way of reading the sentence.
It’s actually wrong. Trust me.
So rewrite it “correctly”. Create a sentence that conveys the intended meaning. Retain the dichotomy between the passive introductory statement and the immediate call to action. Just remove the “error”. Easy right?
Made it seem like you were waiting for something.
The comma encourages a pause in reading that’s not as strong as that of an ellipsis.
Except that it can. That’s the beauty of language. There are all kinds of uncommon uses for punctuation marks, and experimentation is not uncommon. In fact, some of the greatest authors in history experimented with punctuation like crazy.
Only people without imagination and a men-exists-for-the-rules – instead of rules-exist-for-men – attitude let themselves be hindered by narrow definitions of language, writing, punctuation, and so on.
Jesus Christ, I use Dutch words and sayings on OSAlert all the time, and this is what sets you, off?
Edited 2015-05-26 15:16 UTC
Of course it *can* if writing totally bogus english is OK. Not sure why a professional translator would think that though…
(And it’s bogus, alright. I even checked with the language nazis at #english on Freenode. Go there for the technicalities.)
No amount of uncommon comma usage can make this one correct.
Haha, random internet commenter with a mailinator account calls the writing of James Joyce, Marcel Proust, William Faulkner, and others – all authors who used punctuation and language in unconventional ways – “bogus”.
Thanks for the laugh.
Interestingly enough, in your own comment, aside from several punctuation errors, you use a punctuation mark in a brand new way that’s only become commonplace in recent times.
So, by your own definition, your English is “bogus”. Please, don’t lecture me on language.
Edited 2015-05-26 16:38 UTC
Hi Thom,
Just as an aside note: I have no idea about the usage of the comma in that place in English; but it is well-formed Spanish and its usage is pretty common actually.
And writing right-to-left is well-formed Hebrew.
What’s your point?
No point at all.
But, since we are getting aggressive, I read in one of your comments above: “In liu” instead of “In lieu”. Is that proper English?
It’s a well-known pun on the word’s origin (baroque era) to subtly point out a weird (baroque) position in an argument.
Not everyone thinks those are good writers, btw. It could be argued that their use of English was fine in their fields but not appropriate for a tech news website. Would it be acceptable to write a software review in the style of Joyce’s “Finnegan’s Wake”?
My father-in-law is a proofreader ^aEUR” 5 years with George Allen & Unwin, 20+ years with OUP, now he receives commissions mainly from OUP and Blackwell’s ^aEUR” and he said he hadn’t seen Thom’s use of the comma before but that it wouldn’t necessarily be wrong in the right context.
There are no rules when it comes to breaking rules. Not so long ago, it would have been strange to see something like:
Why the fuss over a sentence? Because grammar.
Nowadays, I see constructions like that so often it no longer surprises me.
While I haven’t seen this use of the comma before now, it may well be something that becomes commonplace.
I think there’s more than enough room on a tech blog to play with language – especially when you consider I earn my living with language (translator), and post the occasional language-related story here on OSAlert. In my reviews, too, I play around a lot with language, word choices, and so on. It’s fun.
For instance, something that’s typical of the way I write is extensive use of dashes – like so – that probably flies right in the face of every English style guide. Not just because dashes aren’t encouraged in general, but also because I use the wrong dashes and space them wrong – and sometimes, you’ll even see me nest them – for added confusion – just because I can.
The only reason I use them is because I like them. That’s the beauty of language. I’ve noted that the people who complain about language use the most, tend to be people who don’t actively work in any language-related field. Those that do – like your father-in-law – don’t just bluntly crucify someone for experimenting, but instead, think beyond the actual supposed “error”, and immediately wonder about the context and possible uses.
When I’m translating and I see an “error” in the source text, my first reaction is not “OMG WHAT AN ASSHOLE HE IS USING LANGUAGE DIFFERENTLY THAN MY WHAT AN IDIOT LETS TELL HIM”, but “maybe the author has a reason for doing so that I haven’t considered yet”. Many times, you’ll come to the conclusion that the author did, indeed, have a reason to do so. And, even if it does turn out to be an error, there’s usually a deeper meaning behind it that can be uncovered by trying to understand what, exactly, the author is trying to say with his sentence, paragraph, or text.
That’s why language is so awesome!
Edited 2015-05-26 21:58 UTC
It’s awesome, but I agree with the others that the sentence at hand doesn’t work.
It’s fun to break “the rules”, but within limits.
I find myself in the odd position of defending Thom, that is a new one…
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon about the error of using a comma for dramatic pause is, wrong. See what I did there
That is accepted grammar. It is seldom used grammar, and it may be somewhat conceited grammar, but it violates no grammatical rules and is an accepted usage of a comma. Yes, the common choice for dramatic pause situations is a em dash or ellipsis, but there is no rule forbidding the use of a comma for this purpose. One may choose to use a comma instead to convey serialization, stammering pause, or to separate an introductory word group from the rest of a statement. In this case Thom was using both serialization and separation of the introductory word group, which makes the use of a comma quite appropriate – it dramatically changes the meaning of the statement in the intended fashion. The ellipsis and em-dash would not convey it in quite the same way.
Some links to back that up:
http://writersrelief.com/blog/2012/07/halt-punctuate-adramatic-paus…
https://zencomma.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/a-dramatic-comma/
http://fandom-grammar.livejournal.com/86156.html
http://www.roanestate.edu/owl/commas.html
Point is Thom is not writing a dictionary. He is essentially writing in character, his own character. Go read a novel, authors use this form of stammering/serialized/introductory pause quite regularly when writing in character. It is just seldom used in formal writing.
ps. I routinely take shots at Thom on some technology topics where I believe he is sometimes out of his depth. Grammar and language, however, are two topics where most of you would maybe be well served to listen to him – he usually knows what he is talking about.
I don’t see where in these blog posts Thom’s usage is supported.
Well I already summed it all up in my post. I’m not going to read it for you
It seems your summary may not be entirely correct, as after reading the blog posts for the third time, they don’t really support Thom at all unless he is conveying a stutter.
And the {clause} could be something like: “well”, “obviously”, “as we know”, “seemingly”, “possibly”, “potentially”, “probably”, “as such”, “um” or some other word or clause that can stand alone.
Wikipedia’s article on the comma distils the rules pretty neatly. Not that I would ever claim Wikipedia was a definitive source, just that it looks spot on in this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma
All your points may be correct, but as I and several others have been trying to explain to you: language is not set in stone. Language thrives by experimentation, by using things in new and different ways.
Your use of asterisks to indicate the ‘sigh’ is a perfect example of something that has come to prominence only very recently, mostly due to the internet. Only 20 years ago, people like you would scoff at this kind of use, and yet, you seem perfectly okay with it.
Basically, you yourself make use of new conventions, yet keep hammering on about how others should not try new things because a Wikipedia page tells you not to. This is entirely understandable if you don’t work with language as much as I do – you got to have at least some sort of frame of reference – but if you work with language out in the real world, you start seeing this kind of experimentation all around you – enriching language.
I could probably write a 10-page thesis on all the things that the majority of grammar nazis would consider “errors” in your comment alone. Yet, I see why you choose to spell or use punctuation the way you do, so despite these being factual errors, I accept them.
Anybody who does any serious work with language knows that blindly adhering to rules is the death of creativity and writing. I can look at any text and immediately tell you if its author *knows* grammar and language, or merely follows its rules without really understanding why.
Anybody can recite rules. Few can bend the rules to convey more meaning than blindly following the rules ever could. That’s the difference between a creative writer, and a writer.
Go for it. Maybe it would stop you commenting here like a little child. All I am hearing from you is “Thom is the winner, Thom is the greatest, Thom’s ego is so massive he can’t be wrong, ner, ner, ner”. Seriously. Grow up a little. If you pat yourself any harder on the back, you’ll cough up a lung.
A big, long list of insults, without addressing any of the points made, and even trying to highlight supposed poor grammar which is actually a normal convention in writing headlines.
You have just proven my point more than my own comment ever could. You use language, but it’s clear you don’t understand language. Driving a car does not make you a mechanic.
That’s fine – I don’t understand programming either. At least I don’t try to pretend that I do.
Edited 2015-05-27 17:26 UTC
To be fair, his “insults” pale beside your breathtaking arrogance.
The word “wrong”; like “no”, “great!”, and “begin”, can be used as an utterance. An utterance is essentially a one word clause. I don’t need to add a clause, I already have one.
Not only doesn’t support you both, but actuall talks about using ellipsis to do what you both claim is correct.
So no, quoting random pages doesn’t win a discussion.
It took me a second but I did grasp your meaning there. That said, it is jarring, and if it is accepted English punctuation use I’ve never seen it before now.
I do agree with you that modern languages, including English, are living things and are subject to change over time, spurred on by experimentation and changing social currents.
One more thing, to borrow an idiom from the Christian Bible: He who is without grammatical error, cast the first apostrophe.
It’s not accepted English at all.
Thom, the day I feel obliged to lecture you about Dutch grammar, words and sayings is the day you get to change English grammar, deal? <— and that last sentence is about as close as you can get to what you were trying to do, i.e. dangle a word off the end of a sentence. Notice though, the sentence was actually still two statements.
Well that blew up pretty big…
For what its worth I don’t much like Thom’s ‘experimental grammar’ in this instance, but think its fine he’s using it.
There’s no Acad~A(c)mie Anglais, there’s no definitive rulebook. From whom or where do you pedants get your authority? Convention? OK. Convention evolves. That means you can call his grammar ugly, confusing, out-of-step with usual standards. But you cannot lay down the law because its shifting beneith our feet.
This is English, for God’s sake, not liturgical Latin.
Edited 2015-05-28 14:00 UTC
It is as obvious as dog’s balls that Jony has been demoted (or effectively fired). The fancy new title is simply a hypocritical exercise in saving face.
Demoted, why so? The Ive’s form factor have been a major selling point up to now, why would Apple demote him ?
Ive has let is slip in several interviews that he’s stressed out and overworked. There’s speculation among big name Apple bloggers that this might be a prep for him to step down about a year from now.
I bet this Ive guy have enough savings to take a year off. Or two. Well, maybe even fifty… To discover various shades of grey instead of just white and black design.
It is also possible that the Peter Principle is being applied right here.
He’s a straight shooter with upper management written all over him?
Oh, that Peter Principle.
My thoughts exactly. Give him a “promotion” and take away his power and responsibilities.
Maybe he could take a year off to search for forgotten Braun catalogues.
He is being promoted to a C level role where he will be able to control any facet of Apple design he wants – including the campus, the stores, the cars, you name it.
The last guy that did that was named Steve Jobs.
I wish someone ‘demoted’ me like this.
Did you also read the bit where they are also taking away all his power?
Basically Ive has been sidelined. In a year he will resign to pursue other interests.”
Let the pointless grammar naziing, begin.
Your grammar is a wrong as Thom’s. There, are you happy now? lol.
EDIT: And so was mine.. except I have the sense to correct it..
Edited 2015-05-26 15:00 UTC
Hey it’s not like Senior Vice President is bad necessarily but those little digs, nudges and giggles in the C-Suite were starting to hurt real bad man.
His day to day role is being split between two people. He will be meeting with those two for awhile. Seems like Ive is on his way out, and that’s not a surprise. He’s already done great things and leaving on a good note with the Apple watch launch is probably a good way to part. He’s got plenty of cash and stock. I imagine he stayed on cause of the new watch category. There is not many more categories Apple has left to exploit. Cept the car, which he may not be involved in.
Edited 2015-05-26 12:38 UTC
What does that mean? Its not even job title inflation; its simultaneously job title deflation and inflation. How many Vice Presidents of Design does he have seniority over? Does he report to a President of Design, or to the CEO?
Apropos of not much, I was once give the title of “Senior Search Executive Consultant” by a web firm I was working for over the summer. I was a minimum wage dogsbody sending cloying emails to random victims.